187 réponses à ce sujet

[Tirigon]

Nogthwai wrote...

If you consider 40-50 hours for 60$ dollar a total "Rip-Off" then by all means, never buy another game again, because only RPGs and multiplayer games will ever offer such an amount of game time for the price.

But then, there is no reason to buy a non-RPG singleplayer game at all.

Only good ones I know of are Alien vs Predator 2010 and Spellforce 2 - Shadow Wars. And both of them have multiplayer for those who want, i just chose not to play it.......

(Well, of course games like WC3 and StarCraft 2 have awesome singleplayer too, but I wouldn´t count them since by far the most people buy it for the multiplayer)

[Nokternul]

Every developer maintains a game archive of all the content used to produce a game they've released for a number of reasons. One of the primary reasons is to be able to use these files again in sequels/prequels. This is nothing new, and it doesn't mean that a sequel should be valued any less than the original, as value is a subjective thing. You either value the game enough to pay $60 for it, or you do not. Buyer's regret is a personal problem.

Modifié par Nokternul, 17 mars 2011 - 10:16 .

[naughty99]

Certainly there's a subjective aspect of the level of enjoyment that is an important part of any game's value to whoever bought it, but if you consider your purchase decision in the context of any retail entertainment product, it is ultimately about how much entertainment value you get from it.

I guess if you already bought the game and then decide you hate it, you might want to get your "money's worth" by continuing to play, but who is going to spend 100s of hours playing a game that they hate?

Ultimately, we are talking about a consumer entertainment product that has a specific retail price. If you get more many more hours of entertainment out of this product, compared with a $20 blu-ray that you might watch once or twice, IMO it's certainly worth the $60 retail price.

I have never played any MMORPGs before, but I understand some people get 1000s of hours of entertainment value for their purchase with multiplayer games. Including all replays, etc., I will probably spend a few hundred hours playing DA2. I simply wouldn't pay $60 for any game that can only provide 10-15 hours of entertainment value.

Modifié par naughty99, 17 mars 2011 - 10:13 .

[Brenus]

Nogthwai wrote...

 If you consider 40-50 hours for 60$ dollar a total "Rip-Off" then by all means, never buy another game again, because only RPGs and multiplayer games will ever offer such an amount of game time for the price. 

Also, calling 30 hours for 60$ a total rip off makes me wonder anyway. Gaming is one of the cheapest hobbys you can have, realistically the price tag is kind of moot anyway. It costs a lot more just to buy decent hardware to run DA2 and new games to begin with.

So are you indirectly stating that DA2 is not an RPG then? Because I agree with that.

Games that I buy for full price definitely last far far longer than just 30 hours, also have you ever played PC strategy games? It sounds to me like your expectation of games is so small because you really havnt played many decent complex and long lasting games.

How is gaming one of the cheapest hobbies when you take in the cost of the PC you have? Movies on DVD are usually 1/3 the price of video games, and DVD players can be had for well under <$50.

Also, MMORPGs are very expensive, particularly ones with fees. I refuse to play MMOs with fees because I get far more enjoyment and value for money from subcription free ones like Guild Wars.

Actually, Guild Wars is a great example, each game combined cost me around £150 because I bought the collectors editions, and I've played the game on and off for almost 6 years now, and it still satifies and has plenty of content and stuff to do.

Compared to that, yes a 30-50 hour game for $60 is a complete rip off. 

[Maleficent]

Value is subjective to personal objection.You know I played the demo again tonight to try for the razor and what I noticed is that the cooldown timer for rogue on the first ogre is insanely fast,I can see how people taught OMG they've totally turned it into an action game.Balls they didn't.I have used more tactics so far in DA2 than I ever did in Origins,because the changes they made allow me that freedom(360 version btw).Im still on my first playthrough at 22 hours on act one and as far as I'm concerned my money was well spent.If you haven't actually experienced the game itself why such a precise damning? Im not having a go at you OP but seriously play the game then make a thread like this if you're opinion is the same afterwards.

[Nogthwai]

Brenus wrote...

Nogthwai wrote...

 If you consider 40-50 hours for 60$ dollar a total "Rip-Off" then by all means, never buy another game again, because only RPGs and multiplayer games will ever offer such an amount of game time for the price. 

Also, calling 30 hours for 60$ a total rip off makes me wonder anyway. Gaming is one of the cheapest hobbys you can have, realistically the price tag is kind of moot anyway. It costs a lot more just to buy decent hardware to run DA2 and new games to begin with.

So are you indirectly stating that DA2 is not an RPG then? Because I agree with that.

Games that I buy for full price definitely last far far longer than just 30 hours, also have you ever played PC strategy games? It sounds to me like your expectation of games is so small because you really havnt played many decent complex and long lasting games.

How is gaming one of the cheapest hobbies when you take in the cost of the PC you have? Movies on DVD are usually 1/3 the price of video games, and DVD players can be had for well under <$50.

Also, MMORPGs are very expensive, particularly ones with fees. I refuse to play MMOs with fees because I get far more enjoyment and value for money from subcription free ones like Guild Wars.

Actually, Guild Wars is a great example, each game combined cost me around £150 because I bought the collectors editions, and I've played the game on and off for almost 6 years now, and it still satifies and has plenty of content and stuff to do.

Compared to that, yes a 30-50 hour game for $60 is a complete rip off. 

You misread my first statement; Dragon Age 2 is clearly a RPG. I've played many long lasting games (Especially  EU3); but I know that those are not the norm - most Games are pretty short if you only play the singleplayer part. If you had actually read my post you knew that I played Starcraft for far longer, but that is not the point. 

I don't really count my PC (even if mine is especially geared towards gaming) against my PC games allowance because I need a fast PC for work anyway; most of the "office" computer you can buy nowadays can run most of the games on low settings .  Still, compared to other hobbies I have, computer Games are very very cheap. 

According to your logic, DA:O would also be a total Rip-Off compared to Guild Wars, right?  

Modifié par Nogthwai, 17 mars 2011 - 11:07 .

[Tirigon]

Nogthwai wrote...
Still, compared to other hobbies I have, computer Games are very very cheap. 

That depends on your other hobbies. If one of your hobbies is being a pilot and the other is traveling around the world, then yes. If it´s reading and enjoying ime with friends / family, then not......

[Peeker2009]

First of all, I must admit that I haven't yet played DA:2 (still undecided), and will understand why some think I shouldn't be posting here at all. But I would like to raise an issue that I had with the estimated length of DA:O (especialy when compared to other games) that seemd to go under the radar at the time, and I haven't seen anyone bring it up here. As I say, this is not a comment on DA:2 directly, but it might still apply.

It concerns the amount of codex entries. In my 0pinion, it's a bit cheesy to include the reading of these in the game length, especially when comparing said game length to other titles. DA:O did have a lot of in-game reading, and while this is cool on one level (it was a new system of record keeping that was well implemented), it could also be the easiest way for devs to artificially inflate a game's length, and possibly lead to laziness.

So when someone states that they finished the game in a relatively short time, questions like "Did you read all the codex entries?" are not really relevant imo. The same goes for "did you read all the books in Oblivion?" Similarly, when estimating the game length of old classics, the time spent reading the huge manuals should not be included (nor mapmaking for that matter lol)

Personally, I see in-game reading as mostly extra colour to the game world rather than a core element, though I appreciate that others will see it differently,

now back to DA:2...

Modifié par Peeker2009, 17 mars 2011 - 11:37 .

[Azazel005]

Brenus wrote...

I dont play games for the story, games are for gameplay, enjoyment and fun, not just listening to some lame cookie cutter story about dragons, abominations and darkspawn.

If I want a story I can watch a movie or read a book. Games = games, games =/= story.

Yes the gameplay through most of oblivions questlines such as the dark brotherhood vastly outclasses the crap that is DA2.

Then roll out Mario Bros.

Some of us require some semblence of plot/setting/intrigue to be engaged, Oblivion PASSIBLY delivers enough setting to engage and that is about it. Your suggesting from a design viewpoint that Dark Brotherhood is somehow superior? It's a series of go here/kill that where occaisionally they throw in a caveat 'kill that with this'. The gameplay cheifly involves, shuffling backward and forward while hold one of two buttons. I am not saying it's a terrible game, but it is carried by ones own personal sense of adventure 'Ohh Ima gonna go over that cliff and see if there are any caves their'. The writing and scripted events are all mind numbing rubbish.

What you enjoy, is clearly different from what I enjoy, and while I am not about to go comparing the of any of the games discussed with 'To Kill a Mockingbird' DA II does offer something of an interesting plot.

[Euno17]

naughty99 wrote...

lmao@ bioware employee, i wish!

I didn't even make it to the deep roads until about 45 hours in.

The demo area that I beat easily when playing the demo was really difficult on Nightmare in the real game and took quite a few hours just to get to the gallows in Kirkwall.

By the time I made it to the Deep Roads (at level 8 IIRC) it was more than 45 hours into my game.

I am completely at a loss to understand how so many are talking about beating the game in 15 hours etc. Are you all playing with just using tactics and not pausing during combat? Are you skipping half the quests? Maybe on Hello Kitty mode it would be possible, but I don't think you can beat it so quickly on Nightmare.

I saw one youtube tutorial of someone beating the rock wraith quickly without pausing on Nightmare, which was impressive, but I can't do it. In my case I don't use any tactics, keep everyone on hold in "Passive" behavior mode and pause and micromanage every single character action.

And I die frequently, which is a huge improvement because Nightmare on DAO was so easy it was a joke. When I get throuagh a tough battle it feels a bit more like I have accomplished something.

I think to complete the game will take certainly more than 100 hours. ME2 was lots of fun but it felt very short as IIRC it took me only around 25-30 hours to complete over the course of a couple weekends. DA2 in my case has much, much more content (or at least entertainment value on hard and nightmare) than ME2. 

Okay, okay - lets assume for a second here - that you in-fact actually played 74 hours up to Act 2 . . . .

I don't really see that's a good thing. I could not imagine staying so early in the game for THAT long of a time. This isn't like it's Morrow-wind/Oblivion where you can roam free. In my experience with Bioware games (Mostly ME1, ME2, DA: O and a part of DA: 2) nightmare is more annoying/frustrating then actually difficult.

I started to play ME 2 on the hardest mode on my last play-through and stopped because everything just takes forever to kill - it's not exactly 'challanging' just annoying. With DA: 2 as long as you know what you are doing/been experienced with faster paced games - the only thing you will have to worry about making a mistake or getting unlucky.

With that said, I STILL don't see how you've played 74 hours and only level 8/Act 2. . . . unless you've died so many times that your eyes are close to bleeing because you've played the same fights over and over. At-least the people who have 15 hour play-through's do it by not completing the majority of side quests etc (and probably on casual).

Oh and just because on nightmare, it's taken you 74 hours - it doesn't mean the content is anywhere close to that value. it just means you've had to repeat everything dozens of times. Lol, I'd never do another paly through if that was the case for me.

 

Modifié par Euno17, 18 mars 2011 - 02:02 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

So has the goofball OP even played it yet

[Elite Midget]

If you care that much than why not just wait for the inevitable DA2 Ultimate Edition?

[SirShreK]

All those questioning whether OP played it or not:

Can you guys read?

He played the Demo. He read the reviews. These things exist to warn the customer about what he is buying. If anything OP is smart and saved money from what he may have not liked after purchase. Also he makes valid points all of which are true. So he's sensible.

BDF responds repeatedly by pointing out that he hasn't played the game. So do you mean that one should play the actual product to know if its good or bad???

Modifié par SirShreK, 18 mars 2011 - 02:42 .

[naughty99]

Euno17 wrote...

Okay, okay - lets assume for a second here - that you in-fact actually played 74 hours up to Act 2 . . . .

I don't really see that's a good thing. I could not imagine staying so early in the game for THAT long of a time. This isn't like it's Morrow-wind/Oblivion where you can roam free. In my experience with Bioware games (Mostly ME1, ME2, DA: O and a part of DA: 2) nightmare is more annoying/frustrating then actually difficult.

I started to play ME 2 on the hardest mode on my last play-through and stopped because everything just takes forever to kill - it's not exactly 'challanging' just annoying. With DA: 2 as long as you know what you are doing/been experienced with faster paced games - the only thing you will have to worry about making a mistake or getting unlucky.

With that said, I STILL don't see how you've played 74 hours and only level 8/Act 2. . . . unless you've died so many times that your eyes are close to bleeing because you've played the same fights over and over. At-least the people who have 15 hour play-through's do it by not completing the majority of side quests etc (and probably on casual).

Oh and just because on nightmare, it's taken you 74 hours - it doesn't mean the content is anywhere close to that value. it just means you've had to repeat everything dozens of times. Lol, I'd never do another paly through if that was the case for me.

Personally, I really enjoy this sort of very difficult tactical combat, and I found the story and characters compelling.

This has been a lot of fun for me so far, slightly more fun than DAO because it is a lot more challenging. I found Nightmare on DAO to be a joke because you can spam healing potions to get through anything. Ultimately I imagine I will probably continue playing DA2 for a few hundred hours, which is a great value for me.

That may not be the case at all for you and I totally get it.

Modifié par naughty99, 18 mars 2011 - 02:59 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Sure do,

Demo=old build, review= some other dudes opinion, theres always a rental or borrow option.....

Trying to base a (conservative) 35 hr RPG, on reviews, others opinions and a demo that was 100% combat focused is silly.

but you know what you like on only you....no one else

[Cloaking_Thane]

no really you havent played it........I've seen many many post to the tune of......

I was really skeptical.....but I ended up liking it......its a completely different animal to play something for yourself, nothing trumps your own experience.

The demo is 45 mins and entirely combat focused and dosent use 2/3rds of you party....sorry mate your opinion is tantamount to a hill of beans

I'm glad you reported me....because if you cant handle goofball then, I feel sorry for you as a person, why even apologize to me, I'm almost certainly older than you anyhow.

FWIW if we had this conversation in a gamestop or wherever I would at a minimum call you silly

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 18 mars 2011 - 03:49 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

Sounds like RPG's arent your genre at all then to me

[Cloaking_Thane]

Because the game encompasses much much more than simply combat, and tbh the combat has almost unanimously agreed to be better than origins. Forums skew that a little but then again what dont they skew...its more reactive etc etc....

you really are getting way too worked up over goofball, seriously....quit being so pedantic like this is some debate team league.

My niceities extend only as far as the 60th thread of the day I can handle that bashes the game, and you dont even have the courtesy to indulge the full game and make remarks on its entirity..

Modifié par Cloaking_Thane, 18 mars 2011 - 03:58 .

[Kileyan]

I do think this was a bad Bioware game. That does not mean the game sucked, even a mediocre Bioware game is good.

I will say this is the last Bioware game I just buy because their name in on it. Hell, to be honest, I won't buy another game they make without waiting for release reviews or a Steam sale. This last game was that bad and I realize they are now about quantity over quality.

Modifié par Kileyan, 18 mars 2011 - 04:02 .

[Cloaking_Thane]

What is an example of something you enjoy OP, just anything, generally..