178 réponses à ce sujet

[DariusKalera]

Ad Dugg wrote...

Great post man I'm with you on everything.

It's different to DA:O and elitists hate change. Story wise I love the idea of a game being made up of a collection of small stories.

The combat to me feel 100 times more natural and once everyone has the option to turn auto attack on then I think people won't be able to moan as much.

Also I'm not blind, there are a few flaws in DA2 but all games have their flaws, as a gamer it has to ballenced out with more good things that bad, and I think DA2 delivers more of good than the bad.

It's not change that they hate, it's bad change which DA2 has a lot of in my opinion.

I was expecting things to be changed from DA:O to DA2 and I was prepared for that.  Hell, I actually thought that having most of the game taking place in Kirwall was a novel approch and sounded interesting.

Then, I saw how everything was implemented and was severely disapointed in both the game and in Bioware for releasing it.

I don't hate it with some of the vitrial that others appear to, but I do dislike it enough to tell others not to buy it. 

Which I did today.  Word of mouth may not travel as fast as the internet, but it carries more weight when you can tell someone face to face why a game is not worth it.

[MCPOWill]

I am with you OP! Lets stand together in our defense for Bioware, Dragon Age II, and all that is sweet and holy in this world!

On a more serious note: I did so very much enjoy DA II and found severals things to be an improvement. Glitches and reused dungeons aside, it is a finely crafted RPG with some of the best characters and relationships in any RPG or any game to date. I can't tell who my favorite companion was because they were all so compelling and carried a depth and dimension to them.

Kudos, Bioware!!!

[DarkWulfy]

There is always a middle ground to be had in truth, but this is a forum with passionate people of dire extremes. I'm looking forward to an epic DA:III, that's my resolution

[PirateT138]

So you're saying they delivered a subpar game but it's okay because they were rushed? I (the consumers) didn't set the timeline, they did and they delivered a rushed product and it shows.

I don't think it's even REMOTELY more true to the dark fantasy setting, not with the terrible new art style that makes things more cartoony than ever.

The only point I'll agree with you on is the 15 hour thing people are claiming, it's simply not possible unless you skip A LOT of dialogue and story.

[Ad Dugg]

Lord_Saulot wrote...
Could we please drop the "elitist" label?  Disliking some aspects of this game does not make one an elitist, and it does not mean someone hates "change" in the abstract.  It means that they think that particular changes were deterimental rather than beneficial.  Personally, I think there were both good and bad changes in this game.

I think you mis-understood my post.

There are Elitists on this moard who think they no best and expect too much from Bioware. 
I hadn't quoted you so I don't know why you think I'm calling you an elitist.

Also some people hate change in video games.  They want the same game set in a different place.
I hadn't quoted you so I don't know why you think I'm saying you hate change.

While there are elitists then the word will stay around, and if folks want to complain about their game then feel free to, so long as you've paid for it, you have every right too.

[Jman5]

I think story-wise, Dragon Age 2 was really good until the final quest. That's probably the biggest black eye in the whole game, which is depressing because that's the most critical part. If they had concluded things better I would have given the story a 10/10.

Aside from that, I'm having a blast on my second play through. Being the anti-hero seems to be infinitely more rewarding than when I was mister good guy.

[Cody211282]

DariusKalera wrote...

Ad Dugg wrote...

Great post man I'm with you on everything.

It's different to DA:O and elitists hate change. Story wise I love the idea of a game being made up of a collection of small stories.

The combat to me feel 100 times more natural and once everyone has the option to turn auto attack on then I think people won't be able to moan as much.

Also I'm not blind, there are a few flaws in DA2 but all games have their flaws, as a gamer it has to ballenced out with more good things that bad, and I think DA2 delivers more of good than the bad.

It's not change that they hate, it's bad change which DA2 has a lot of in my opinion.

I was expecting things to be changed from DA:O to DA2 and I was prepared for that.  Hell, I actually thought that having most of the game taking place in Kirwall was a novel approch and sounded interesting.

Then, I saw how everything was implemented and was severely disapointed in both the game and in Bioware for releasing it.

I don't hate it with some of the vitrial that others appear to, but I do dislike it enough to tell others not to buy it. 

Which I did today.  Word of mouth may not travel as fast as the internet, but it carries more weight when you can tell someone face to face why a game is not worth it.

Holy crap a well thought out argument on why you dont like it, I have yet to see this fom someone who liked the game, all I hear from them is "its the best thing ever" and it's not, this game clearly has flaws.

[Silentmode]

I personally like DA2 more than DAO as well. It's just a game that suits my preferences for a game better than Origins did. It's not perfect, but what is? This game does too many things right to negate its worth based off a few nitpicks imo.

I'd put DA2 behind only ME1 for my favorite BW game right now.

[vigna]

I like the game..I say 7/10. I really enjoyed it and will play it again. That said, I'd probably rather spend more time, other than a second play through, playing DA:O, ME1, ME2, KOTOR, or even Jade Empire (maybe). All the games I mentioned are probably 8 or 9 out 10 games. Why would I continue to play DA II when Bioware has much better stuff. As a sequel it is much better than the abomination that was Fable III. But it definitely has its share of flaws.

Its also not the dud that people are saying, but it is Bioware's most flawed game I have played.

[Psearo]

Been a long time player of RPGs, the majority of them Bioware ones.
I even loved Jade Empire.... Loved it even more once it was out on PC!

(Personally, my "perfect RPG" would be a cross between Morrowind and DA/DA2)

I wholeheartedly support what CaptainVanguard has said in his opening post.
There are things I would have liked them to have included, but this doesn't make the game any less enjoyable for me.

Did a semi-power run through my first play through, skipping half way through conversations after I'd skimmed the subtitles, playing as a two-handed warrior.
Currently doing a more immersed mage (who's a tad disappointed with the Staff of Parlathan not levelling like Fadeshear), and loving the plot(s) and gameplay more than my skim through.

Having Hawke's family being a more important part of the game itself, combined with the rising tensions between mages and templars, actually made me care more for Hawke, his/her family, and other characters.

Funny thing is, with certain actions (and appearances of characters), I actually feel a greater connection with my Warden Queen and what she did in Ferelden, than I did after I'd done them initially.

[Svig]

I agree completely with the OP. I love this game and I consider it to be one of the best RPG's I've ever played.

[mmmmmmPie]

PirateT138 wrote...

So you're saying they delivered a subpar game but it's okay because they were rushed? I (the consumers) didn't set the timeline, they did and they delivered a rushed product and it shows. 

Thats one of the funniest things I'm seeing happen in all of the "positive" reviews.  They all read like

"Well this game is good BUT...."

or

"For a bad game it's not that bad..."

When even the positive reviews arent really positive you know you've got a problem.

[Lord_Saulot]

Ad Dugg wrote...

Lord_Saulot wrote...
Could we please drop the "elitist" label?  Disliking some aspects of this game does not make one an elitist, and it does not mean someone hates "change" in the abstract.  It means that they think that particular changes were deterimental rather than beneficial.  Personally, I think there were both good and bad changes in this game.

I think you mis-understood my post.

There are Elitists on this moard who think they no best and expect too much from Bioware. 
I hadn't quoted you so I don't know why you think I'm calling you an elitist.

Also some people hate change in video games.  They want the same game set in a different place.
I hadn't quoted you so I don't know why you think I'm saying you hate change.

While there are elitists then the word will stay around, and if folks want to complain about their game then feel free to, so long as you've paid for it, you have every right too.

Thank you for the response.  I think you misunderstood my comments.  I did not think you were talking about me personally.  However, I do think that the term "elitist" has started to become an epithet that is being thrown a lot, and it seems to be used as a reason to dismiss other people's opinions.  I also did not really mean to single you out, or to accuse you in particular of that - it is just something that has been annoying me for a little while now and seeing it made me say something.

[Lord_Saulot]

mmmmmmPie wrote...

PirateT138 wrote...

So you're saying they delivered a subpar game but it's okay because they were rushed? I (the consumers) didn't set the timeline, they did and they delivered a rushed product and it shows. 

Thats one of the funniest things I'm seeing happen in all of the "positive" reviews.  They all read like

"Well this game is good BUT...."

or

"For a bad game it's not that bad..."

When even the positive reviews arent really positive you know you've got a problem.

Good reviewing takes into account both positive and negative aspects.

[HawXV2]

Pygmali0n wrote...

CaptainVanguard wrote...

Give my love to David Gaider for hiring Torchwood staff and MORE WELSH ELVES PLEASE GOD.

Thanks - so this is the reason the game is so bad - it's based upon the childish and desperate, frenetic and hysterical Dr Who/Torchwood.

I like Merrill, but as I've said elsewhere she's not a Dalish elf, she's a Welsh woman.

Dr. Who...childish? You're an idiot.

[Flunkorg]

If I had to place them, it would be

1. Kotor
2. Mass effect 2
3. DA2
4. Mass effect 1
5. Origins

So I guess you could say its one of its best. But, if the game had 1 more year of development time. It could have been there best. Still, its a good solid game.

[Druscylla]

There are things I like about DA2 and things I dislike. But I have to say I am getting tired of being treated like the redheaded stepchild because I don't absolutely loathe this game. Overall I like some of the changes. Some of them I am unsure about and I really hate the new character portrait thing for one thing. (They all look like chubby pudding faces.) But some of the changes are rather nice. I like not being a blank staring mute.

[Cody211282]

Druscylla wrote...

There are things I like about DA2 and things I dislike. But I have to say I am getting tired of being treated like the redheaded stepchild because I don't absolutely loathe this game. Overall I like some of the changes. Some of them I am unsure about and I really hate the new character portrait thing for one thing. (They all look like chubby pudding faces.) But some of the changes are rather nice. I like not being a blank staring mute.

Hurray for middle ground!

[Soilborn88]

I can agree with some in your post but as others have said, Bioware took so many shortcuts with this game it delievers a lot less than Origins did.

Only a hand full of maps used over and over again throughout the game, bad item generation system, pointless quests, and less emphasis on tactics and strategy and more on action buttom mashing. 

[CaptainVanguard]

Granted, the re-use of Kirkwalls constant areas can be a bit tedious but at the same time the counter-point would be how the story revolves around it.

Again, without saying anything of the spoilers:

The story makes the area and the actions you perform within it key to events, thats what makes the balancing point here. Granted, you dont see alot of the outside world or alot of variety amoung places (minor nitpick, it'd be nice to see more) its still relevent to what it wants to show us.

Hawke's character story belongs there and I personally believe that the game gives a much more "interesting" atmosphere than its predacessor.

NOW dont get me wrong:

Origins, was great, it introduced Dragon Age with an interesting tale with some new spins on old ideas, however...

Dragon Age 2 stands out by being different, and I like that, it dares to push itself one step further. It isnt perfect but give it a few months, dlc or an expansion, or even wait till DA 3 and im sure you'll see exactly why its relevant.

Do not judge a game by a demo, keep in mind alot of the features from the full game were excluded from the demo, thereby, anyone judging by the demo alone isnt giving the game its just fairness.

The key point I will make without spoiling the story:
Dragon Age 1 was too oriented towards a heroic fantasy setting, betraying the intended purpose of Bioware's attempt to make it darker, grittier, personal.

Dragon Age 2 hits that in its story by literally being a true dark-fantasy.

Anyone who actually plays this game all the way through, doing all the side-quests might be able to appriciate that more than someone who either didnt play it at all or just did the main quests.

I love this game, and I look forwards to what Dragon Age 3 brings us as ive said before...

My only pointer would be: Keep the atmosphere of Dragon Age 2... its the story of DA 2 that sets itself apart, but dare to do something new, try to surprise us even more than you've done.

This is looking to be an impressive trilogy, but that said, why stop at 3?

Not to jump the gun here, but Dragon Age seems to be perfect for a franchise and given where its already going, I hope to see many more games after DA 3, weather prequals or sequals to the current story.

[DariusKalera]

CaptainVanguard wrote...

Granted, the re-use of Kirkwalls constant areas can be a bit tedious but at the same time the counter-point would be how the story revolves around it.

Again, without saying anything of the spoilers:

The story makes the area and the actions you perform within it key to events, thats what makes the balancing point here. Granted, you dont see alot of the outside world or alot of variety amoung places (minor nitpick, it'd be nice to see more) its still relevent to what it wants to show us.

Hawke's character story belongs there and I personally believe that the game gives a much more "interesting" atmosphere than its predacessor.

NOW dont get me wrong:

Origins, was great, it introduced Dragon Age with an interesting tale with some new spins on old ideas, however...

Dragon Age 2 stands out by being different, and I like that, it dares to push itself one step further. It isnt perfect but give it a few months, dlc or an expansion, or even wait till DA 3 and im sure you'll see exactly why its relevant.

Do not judge a game by a demo, keep in mind alot of the features from the full game were excluded from the demo, thereby, anyone judging by the demo alone isnt giving the game its just fairness.

The key point I will make without spoiling the story:
Dragon Age 1 was too oriented towards a heroic fantasy setting, betraying the intended purpose of Bioware's attempt to make it darker, grittier, personal.

Dragon Age 2 hits that in its story by literally being a true dark-fantasy.

Anyone who actually plays this game all the way through, doing all the side-quests might be able to appriciate that more than someone who either didnt play it at all or just did the main quests.

I love this game, and I look forwards to what Dragon Age 3 brings us as ive said before...

My only pointer would be: Keep the atmosphere of Dragon Age 2... its the story of DA 2 that sets itself apart, but dare to do something new, try to surprise us even more than you've done.

This is looking to be an impressive trilogy, but that said, why stop at 3?

Not to jump the gun here, but Dragon Age seems to be perfect for a franchise and given where its already going, I hope to see many more games after DA 3, weather prequals or sequals to the current story.

I played it all the way through, eventually.  Took me quite awhile to actually push my way through the "raining men" mob fights, cut and pasted dungeons, and little annoying "run and fetch" side quests.

I know that there was a good story some where in there, it popped its little head out every once in awhile, but when it did BAM!!!!, there came the repitiion hammer with the same fights, quests, and areas to bash it back down.

Those are just some of the things that ruined this game for me.

I know that Bioware tried, and I give them props for the attempt.  But they failed.

BTW, I would not call this a dark fantasy game.  I saw very little that was actually dark about it other than a few questionable choices.

[DTKT]

I know that there was a good story some where in there, it popped its little head out every once in awhile, but when it did BAM!!!!, there came the repitiion hammer with the same fights, quests, and areas to bash it back down.

That's probably the best way to describe DAII.

[johook213]

I agree with the OP, I loved DAII. I prefer Origins to be honest, but I understand why they made the changes that they did make. Do I love everything they changed? nah. Does it have me in a furious rage, refusing to buy future bioware products and wishing ruin upon the company. Absolutely not. That's kind of extreme and silly to me.

I enjoy games like Dragon Age, and I understand that these games have to evolve. I hope Dragon Age II brings in enough profit to support further installments in the series.

I'd also like to add, that reading through the various posts on these boards I do notice that the more "angry" crowd tends to belittle supporters of this game, stating things like "what game did you play?" or "You're a moron if you like this garbage." and "...you must be a console player to like this game." I don't understand why some people have such aggressive and angry attitudes toward this game.

Another thing I thought was amusing was a thread bashing DAII, and praising BGII..... in one post someone mentioned how the story of DAII was so lame because you spent the first 3 hours or so raising money... that's funny to me, because I seem to remember doing the exact same thing at the beginning of BGII if my memory is correct. Seems some people will find just about anything about DAII flawed, almost like they are trying very hard to not like the game. I dunno, I could be wrong, but that's just my observations.

[Ad Dugg]

Lord_Saulot wrote...

Thank you for the response.  I think you misunderstood my comments.  I did not think you were talking about me personally.  However, I do think that the term "elitist" has started to become an epithet that is being thrown a lot, and it seems to be used as a reason to dismiss other people's opinions.  I also did not really mean to single you out, or to accuse you in particular of that - it is just something that has been annoying me for a little while now and seeing it made me say something.

Right I'm with you now. 

Yeah the word does get thrown around too often and has lost some of it's meaning like the term epic for that matter. 

I do honestly think that in regards to DA2 there are elitists (or a better word might be purists) who seem hell bent on bulldozing their opinions through and can't except that others like it.

Personally I think negative criticisms (if done constructively) are more useful to the dev team than positive feedback.

On a side note I think the problem on the boards at the moment is this:

The fanboys (Mages) want all of the elitists (Templars) to stay quiet and not have their say.  The Elitists think this game is not great and that the Mages have no right to defend it and that they should be made tranquil so that they cannot defend the game and can be told what to say and think.
The only was to solve this is to have the Divine (Bioware) step in and say who is right.

Funny how well this metaphore works

[B3taMaxxx]

Nice ^