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In defence of Bioware, One of its best games to date.


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#76
Element Zero

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I'm glad we're starting to see a few positive threads, now. I have no problem at all with disappointed fans expressing themselves, but these forums always go so far over the top in each direction.

I have not read through all three pages of comments preceding my own. That said, I'm wondering if the extremely disappointed fans are mostly PC players. I can see how this game would potentially not play as well on PC as on the consoles. I know there are people with opinions, both good and bad, playing on each of the many platforms. I am starting to believe, though, that the PC gamers make up a sizeable portion of the fans who find themselves let down by DA2. I could be wrong, but I do wonder. I'm sorry that not all enjoyed the game as muich as I.

I loved the game. DAO is a favorite of mine, but solely on the basis of its story. I've always felt that it was a crappy game to play, but an amazing story to experience. For that reason, I was pleased to see the mechanical changes made for DA2. The graphical improvements were likewise welcome.

DA2's story was amazing, in my opinion. Many of the quests had a depth I have seen in few games before this. There were some seriously emotional moments for Hawke, and some pretty interesting investigative sequences, to name a few of the bright spots. There was a moment late in the game that had me yelling "WTF were you thinking?!" at one particular NPC. Brilliant writing, guys!

I do have some gripes. The glitches are so bad I can't imagine how they thought this game was ready for release. That's inexcusable. The repetitive dungeons were likewise a letdown. ME had this issue, and the fans let Bioware know about it. It's a shame the DA2 team didn't get the memo.

All in all, though, I'd rate this as another good game from Bioware, made so by amazing writing and solid gameplay. It was, for me, a clear improvement over DAO. I am eager to play the next game set in a Thedas shaped by the Champion's and the Warden's decisions.

Modifié par tallrickruush, 17 mars 2011 - 12:42 .


#77
Ilistria

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I really loved DA:O and was worried I would haye DA:2 when I read about the changes, but I have enjoyed DA:2 every bit as much. The new combat system I feel works better than DA:O, but then i`m not playing the game in main for the combat or challenge, i`m playing it to have an immersive experience and enjoy the story, and DA:2 has a great story, I actually like it more than DA:O classic and much overused hero to save the world story.. Having a story more focussed on a character thats not out to save the world is a refreshing change. I`m very much looking forward to DLC and more DA. i`ve not regretted this purchase at all and will replay it after i`ve finished my first playthrough.

#78
Element Zero

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Ilistria wrote...

I really loved DA:O and was worried I would haye DA:2 when I read about the changes, but I have enjoyed DA:2 every bit as much. The new combat system I feel works better than DA:O, but then i`m not playing the game in main for the combat or challenge, i`m playing it to have an immersive experience and enjoy the story, and DA:2 has a great story, I actually like it more than DA:O classic and much overused hero to save the world story.. Having a story more focussed on a character thats not out to save the world is a refreshing change. I`m very much looking forward to DLC and more DA. i`ve not regretted this purchase at all and will replay it after i`ve finished my first playthrough.


+1

#79
Rockpopple

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I dunno, man.

I first got exposed to BioWare games with Dragon Age: Origins. Never even HEARD of Baldur's Gate. After that wonderful experience, I've been playing all kinds.

Dragon Age 2 is doing it for me. It's a really fun experience. The story is fantastic, the fighting exciting and frustrating and rewarding.... it's doing everything Dragon Age: Origins did for me and more.

Sometimes I wonder if there's a super-special version of Dragon Age: Origins out there that others are playing that I didn't. If I played that version, would my head simply explode from the awesomeness.

I still haven't finished it though. I kinda feel bad for people just blowing by it in 20 hours. They're missing lots of good stuff.

#80
Ad Dugg

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Persephone wrote...
Valid according to THEM. Have you seen what has been going on at Metacritic and Amazon? It's absolutely shameful behavior. Now I understand if someone who is disappointed wants to voice his/her opinion. But the way people who like this game and openly stand by it are treated is disgusting. Hell, some idiot on Amazon accused me of HAVING TO BE a PR Agent or Shareholder of Bioware/EA because I dared to write a positive review! How do you justify that?

You can't.

It's a disgrace how some people on the internet just don't know how to voice an opinion.

#81
johook213

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Someone mentioned Morrowind... oh goodness. I stopped playing that game after talking to a about 5 or 6 NPCs in town who spat out the exact same dialogue. Sure, that game gave you tons of freedom to explore and all, but it felt a bit lifeless.... my character felt like they had little to no personality, and the NPCs just felt fake with their copy and paste dialogue. But, I never bothered to go online and give it any kind of score. Some people like it, many in fact, and it wasn't necessarily a bad game.... just wasn't my cup of tea. That's why I cannot understand why so many want to destroy the Dragon Age name, and ruin Bioware. =/

#82
JohnBlaster

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The Game looks awesome, the gameplay improved much since the last DA sequels, there's no doubt about it. Other thing i enjoy is that it has more cutscenes and the dialogue interactivity (much like MAss Effect lol) because the other sequels of DA lacked that and sometimes u just feel like you were wandering in the game and it was no fun xD

#83
Naitaka

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Funny how the only praise the Op had for the game was the combat...which I actually agree with. The rest of the game, well if EA think they can sell us a product that's so rough around the edges as to make Obsidian game look polished and we wouldn't even notice, then they are very very wrong...If they had sold DA2 as an expansion for around 40$, I'd be much more inclined to overlook its fault. Oh well, at least modding is already starting to fix alot of things, let's hope we get a toolset a few month down the road.

#84
ACDimps

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yea the game is an OK way to waste time, but there's no way I'm ever getting caught up in the pre-order hype of a major bioware game again. But OP, that's cool if you really enjoyed it.

Modifié par ACDimps, 17 mars 2011 - 02:59 .


#85
AkiKishi

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Naitaka wrote...

Funny how the only praise the Op had for the game was the combat...which I actually agree with. The rest of the game, well if EA think they can sell us a product that's so rough around the edges as to make Obsidian game look polished and we wouldn't even notice, then they are very very wrong...If they had sold DA2 as an expansion for around 40$, I'd be much more inclined to overlook its fault. Oh well, at least modding is already starting to fix alot of things, let's hope we get a toolset a few month down the road.


I really hope Obsidian hit's the mark with DSIII.

#86
Killa2k

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Personally theyres alot i dont like with DA2 (recycled maps, over exagerated basic attacks, mob waves, over simplified class systems, reduction in specializations etc etc )but theyres some definate improvements on its predecesor aswell, i think without the clear and obvious problems that killed some peoples enthusiasm, and immersment, we would all be seeing alot less hate and would have elevated this game to the level or above its original. I just hope we see some descent changes to future DA releases and im sure well see a hell of alot more happy people. Im still glad people are enjoying DA2. (all this is purely opinion based ofc and im sure many people like some of the problems that i found though i dont see how anyone could enjoy running the same maps 15+ times but again thats from my point of view, and were all aware by now that Bioware had some time + budget constraints). Glad OP enjoyed it personally im already planning another run through of Origins just to see what i can change in DA2, but i wont be hammering through DA2 like i tried to the first time nearlly boring myself to death in the process hoping it will make the reused maps a little less soul crushing.

Modifié par Killa2k, 17 mars 2011 - 03:14 .


#87
ScotGaymer

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I don't agree with the OP entirely.

He said he cant say anything bad about DA2. As if there is nothing wrong with it at all and its the most perfect amazing game he has ever played.
If he feels that way (and I dont know HOW he can feel that way) then good for him but there are plenty of things I could say negative about DA2.

I have said in a number of threads - I dont dislike or hate DA2. I actually do like it. I am just dissapointed with it because it is neither what we as long standing consumers/customers of Bioware were expecting or even promised.

Negatives:
No tactical camera in combat; we were promised that we would have it for PC version.
No varying body types depending on class; we were promised MageHawke would be slender in comparison to WarriorHawke who would be a hairy beefcake.
Bugs; This is the buggiest game that Bioware have released yet. Its almost as bad as a Bethesda release for bugs (repeating cutscenes, quests not "finishing" even though I completed them, outright CTDs).
Constant reuse of the same 10 levels/areas over and over and over and over again.
The games stock landscape/background textures SUCK, they are worse than DAO's stock textures; requiring a seperate download of HiRes Textures to make the game look half decent and not a blocky mess is a problem IMO.
Storyline, while good is very short. It seems to be about the Qunari before shooting off onto an aburpt tangent in the last act and ending equally abruptly. We got a 7 year storyline, not the 10 we were promised.
The cooldown for the dog summon is too long, and its extremely annoying that Dog doesnt transition from area to area with Hawke. Also Hawke cant heal Dog, nor can dog be upgraded.
Weapons, Armour, Accessories, and "junk" are all very generic, boring, and lifeless. Most of the stuff you can find or buy is useless and pointless. The junk is totally pointless and a waste of space.
No item descriptions unless something has an associated Codex entry. I can only say this was a mistake not to include tooltips n such for them.
While the faster paced combat is better than DAO's combat; by subscribing to the doctrine of Human Wave for nearly every single battle to make a battle difficult it almost ruins the step forward DA took with the new combat. It sucks out any strategy or tactics from combat and turns it into a hack n slash grind fest which while better than DAO's combat still, doesnt stay fun for long.
The music score is weak, the composer must feel a little bit ashamed of it because much of the game has Hawke running around in silence only to have a random out of place noise blare out of the speakers when Hawke picks a flower.
The music is too loud even when turned down in settings, and the dialogue is far too quiet even at maximum.
Kirkwall itself is too small for a supposed big city; we were promised bigger than Denerim. Its not bigger than Denerim; its feels smaller. Also the environs of the city are small and kind of drab and boring as well.

These are things I can say without a doubt DA2 did "wrong" because the game was clearly rushed out in time to make the release. If I hadnt preordered the Sig Edition for PC (which is only 25 quid in the UK) I would have said this game wasnt and isnt worth the £40-£50 price tag. I would have actually returned it had I had to pay that amount of money for it.
I sincerely wish they had delayed the game 3 months and finished it properly instead of trying to slap it together last minute, which is what it feels like the did.
I do not see how anyone can actually disagree with the above.

There are many things DA2 did right though, and because of these things I do like the game and I dont think its a bad game - its just the worst ever Bioware game.

Positives:
The storyline is intruiguing and fun; and I enjoy how the many threads weave together in unexpected ways in the last act. Abruptness of the ending notwithstanding.
Party banters are great, not everyone gets along and some of the banters are hilarious.
Romances are deep and enjoyable and really make you care about the character; however the depth of the romances leaves the friendship or rivalry paths a little shallow and lacking by comparison.
The textures for the characters (face, hair, eyes, body), weapons, armours etc are all really well done; in DAO I needed mods downloaded to successfully create a nice looking Warden and with DA2 I can create a SexyManHawke or a HawtGirlHawke with the stock chargen.
The faster animations make for more faced paced combat; and the style of combat is more lifelike and realistic (Staff/Stave users especially!).
I love the new skill/talent trees the streamlining of them means that each power is more unique and more useful; though I do miss the training skills like thievery, trap detection/making, herbalism, poison making, persuasion, stealth, lock picking etc.
The new visual effects for powers are really well done as well.
Vocal inflections, emotion, and dialogue is all spot on; in spite of the paraphrasing system still not being that great. I also miss the ME2 interrupt system. lol. I so wanted to punch a few annoying people in the face mid conversation.
Voice acting is the strongest in any Bioware game yet.
Kirkwall feels more like a living breathing city than Denerim or Orzammar did; you see people milling about doing about their daily lives. Its a very very nice touch. I also loved the Chantry bells going to toll the hour. :-)
I felt the unique character outfits were a vast improvement over the bollocks we got shovelled at us in ME2; I do feel however they could have gone for a little more diversity and variety with them. Overall however I quite liked that companions chose their own outfits, I just would have liked to have seen a bit MORE choice there.
The fact that all 4 romancable characters are "bi" depending on your sex is really really nice of Bioware to do; as a gay man I was very gratified by the fact that I got the same kind of choices that the straight audience usually get.

Overall I like the game. Dont think it is worth the (is it 60 to 70 dollars or something stupid like that?) price tag, but as I bought the PC version for 25 pounds (thats approximately 35 to 40 dollars) it doesnt bother me too much - so I do like the game very much, as I have said before its totally a bit of Awesomesauce in many ways.
That however is the problem for most people and for myself; we merely liked and enjoyed Dragon Age 2 whereas ordinarily we absolutely LOVE Bioware games, and squee like fangirls over the coming of the next Bioware game.
Thats how I felt about DA2; I literally squee'd over every single trailer and demo video. I squee'd over the Demo itself. I was that excited for DA2 coming that the day before it arrived I couldnt sleep, it was like Xmas, and the day it arrived i stayed up till midnight so I could play it the minute it was officially the release date.
Given the sheer level of excitement I felt, and I am sure many others were the same, to merely LIKE the game was something of a disapointment. The game totally fell short in many ways.

Bioware (like Blizzard) have a long standing tradition of releasing high quality products; and DA2 simply wasnt in keeping with that tradition. That is where most of the hate comes from; were this any other company such as Obsidian then the expectation wouldnt have been as high. Nor the dissapointment as blatant.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 17 mars 2011 - 03:23 .


#88
gingerbill

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agree with OP on the whole . My only complaint with the game is the magically spawning enemies , really dont like that . Otherwise i think its great but im only half way through so far . Love the new combat , on hard difficulty it very tactical , far more tactical than DAO . Theres alot of humour in the game as well . Party members are good but not as good as DAO ut i havent finished yet. The new UI is great to.

#89
CitizenSnips

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I'm not sure how you can say this game is one of Bioware's best to date. One of the characteristics of Bioware's games I have come to expect is a high finished quality of the product, something this game just doesn't have. It feels like a great game either done hastily or released too soon.

#90
ScotGaymer

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For me Bioware games (that I have played) rank like this:

1:Knights of the Old Republic
2.Baldur's Gate 2
3.Jade Empire
4.Dragon Age: Origins/Awakening
5.Mass Effect 2
6.Neverwinter Nights
7.Baldur's Gate 1
8.Mass Effect 1
9.Dragon Age 2

I reckon most peoples ratings of BW Games would be similar.

#91
mereck7980

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tallrickruush wrote...

Ilistria wrote...

I really loved DA:O and was worried I would haye DA:2 when I read about the changes, but I have enjoyed DA:2 every bit as much. The new combat system I feel works better than DA:O, but then i`m not playing the game in main for the combat or challenge, i`m playing it to have an immersive experience and enjoy the story, and DA:2 has a great story, I actually like it more than DA:O classic and much overused hero to save the world story.. Having a story more focussed on a character thats not out to save the world is a refreshing change. I`m very much looking forward to DLC and more DA. i`ve not regretted this purchase at all and will replay it after i`ve finished my first playthrough.


+1


+2...

It is refreshing to see that there are a few threads that don't start out Bioware bashing.  I have played through the game twice now and the overal narrative arc of the story has grown on me.  I initially loved the writing for all the charcter interactions, which I believe is a great improvement over DA:O, but was a little disapointed with the larger plot of the game.  After my second playthrough I see that they are trying to tell a story that is not just character focused but more about the DA universe itself.  I know the ending is just a bridge to the next game in the series but I find my self intrigued about were the writers will take the story.  I have really enjoyed this game and am looking foward to the next installment in the series. 

#92
mereck7980

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FitScotGaymer wrote...

For me Bioware games (that I have played) rank like this:

1:Knights of the Old Republic
2.Baldur's Gate 2
3.Jade Empire
4.Dragon Age: Origins/Awakening
5.Mass Effect 2
6.Neverwinter Nights
7.Baldur's Gate 1
8.Mass Effect 1
9.Dragon Age 2

I reckon most peoples ratings of BW Games would be similar.


Maybe not, here is my ranking:

1.Knights of the Old Republic
2.Mass Effect 1
3.Mass Effect 2
4.Baldur's Gate 2
5.Dragon Age: Origins/Awakening
6.Jade Empire
7.Baldur's Gate 1
8.Dragon Age 2
9.Neverwinter Nights

It would be hard to argue that KOTOR had the best writing of any BW game (probably the best Star Wars story ever told as well), but I am really partial to the ME narrative and I have probably spent more time playing BG2 than any game ever made.  

#93
Merci357

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FitScotGaymer wrote...

For me Bioware games (that I have played) rank like this:

1:Knights of the Old Republic
2.Baldur's Gate 2
3.Jade Empire
4.Dragon Age: Origins/Awakening
5.Mass Effect 2
6.Neverwinter Nights
7.Baldur's Gate 1
8.Mass Effect 1
9.Dragon Age 2

I reckon most peoples ratings of BW Games would be similar.


Uhm, no?

1. Baldur's Gate 2
2. Knights of the Old Republic
3. Mass Effect 2
4. Mass Effect
5. Dragon Age: Origins
6. Baldur's Gate
7. Dragon Age 2
8. Neverwinter Nights
9. Jade Empire

But what is the purpose of such a list? It's like talking about music or movies, you like it or you don't. I don't like Jade Empire, at all. I don't think DA2 is remarkable in any shape or form. And, given a choice, I prefer SF over Fantasy, and as such value the ME series.

Edit: This is also including nostalgia, obviously. Especially the BG games, but also KoTOR would drop down a few places. Everything pre-JE looks and fells somewhat dated for "modern" tastes.

Modifié par Merci357, 17 mars 2011 - 04:03 .


#94
Lil Vern

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DA 2 was overall a good game, even with all its flaws i enjoyed playing it.

#95
Beerfish

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FitScotGaymer wrote...

For me Bioware games (that I have played) rank like this:

1:Knights of the Old Republic
2.Baldur's Gate 2
3.Jade Empire
4.Dragon Age: Origins/Awakening
5.Mass Effect 2
6.Neverwinter Nights
7.Baldur's Gate 1
8.Mass Effect 1
9.Dragon Age 2

I reckon most peoples ratings of BW Games would be similar.


Why do you reckon that?  I only played a very short snippet of Jade Empire but my list would be in a different order.  Also for me even if I ordered them there would be very little difference between perhaps the top 7 out of 10.

A more relevant list for me would be all the games I've played and BioWare would own most of the top spots on that list.  Even in DA2 (which I think is better than the flack it is being given) BioWare is doing what it does best as far as game making goes.

#96
johook213

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FitScotGaymer wrote...

For me Bioware games (that I have played) rank like this:

1:Knights of the Old Republic
2.Baldur's Gate 2
3.Jade Empire
4.Dragon Age: Origins/Awakening
5.Mass Effect 2
6.Neverwinter Nights
7.Baldur's Gate 1
8.Mass Effect 1
9.Dragon Age 2

I reckon most peoples ratings of BW Games would be similar.


No.  I hate Star Wars, and I am not a big sci-fi fan either, so KOTOR and Mass Effect fall low on my list.  The games are not bad, just not my favorites.  I couldn't get into them.  Everyone has preferences, likes, and dislikes.   It is not fair to assume everyone should dislike something just because you do.  That's what is so frustrating about this hate toward DA2.... people didn't get exactly what they wanted so they feel that the game should be considered a complete failure. It's not.

#97
Psearo

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Silencer81 wrote...

Mass Effect isn't RPG. It is a action game with small elements of RPG. It's like talking that Diablo is RPG which isn't.


Why isn't ME/ME2 an RPG?
What makes an RPG, an RPG in the first place?

#98
ScotGaymer

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johook213 wrote...

FitScotGaymer wrote...

For me Bioware games (that I have played) rank like this:

1:Knights of the Old Republic
2.Baldur's Gate 2
3.Jade Empire
4.Dragon Age: Origins/Awakening
5.Mass Effect 2
6.Neverwinter Nights
7.Baldur's Gate 1
8.Mass Effect 1
9.Dragon Age 2

I reckon most peoples ratings of BW Games would be similar.


No.  I hate Star Wars, and I am not a big sci-fi fan either, so KOTOR and Mass Effect fall low on my list.  The games are not bad, just not my favorites.  I couldn't get into them.  Everyone has preferences, likes, and dislikes.   It is not fair to assume everyone should dislike something just because you do.  That's what is so frustrating about this hate toward DA2.... people didn't get exactly what they wanted so they feel that the game should be considered a complete failure. It's not.



I didnt say that Dragon Age 2 is a failure at any point. In fact I repeatedly said I liked it. I just said that IMO DA2 was Biowares WORST game to date.
And that most peoples lists would be SIMILAR to mine (not precisely the same people!); this is just how I rate them, myself.

I dont expect everyone to blindly agree with me at least not on the details. Perhaps a degree of agreement from most people on the general brush stroke of it all, that DA2 is the worst if not one of the worst Bioware games.
Again I am not saying its a bad game. Its just not up to snuff when compared to earlier BW games.

Modifié par FitScotGaymer, 17 mars 2011 - 04:38 .


#99
Einherjar420

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I agree with this thread. I'm enjoying this game much more than Origins, so much more that I can overlook the reused maps. Don't most games have enemies randomly spawn anyway?
I prefer this story so far too. I'm only in Act 2, but I've already decided to play this game a second time. I tried to play Origins again, but couldn't do it.

The outfits are better too, in my oppinion. Giant spaulders never made sense to me. Those things would suck if you were swinging a two handed sword.
I'm on Xbox 360 and severely enjoying combat way more than in Origins. I'm confused by those who complain about no auto attack on xbox 360 though. Maybe it's just me, but I only use 3 or 4 spells with my mage, if I had auto attack, I'd be doing nothing except waiting for cool downs most of the time. That's more exciting than pressing A?

I grew tired of the story where a hero saves the land from the big bad enemy. BioWARE made that story excellent in Origins of course, and I have no idea if this story will go that route as well, I'll find out this weekend or maybe next week. Dragon Age II does have some downfalls. Dragon Age Origins had downfalls as well, same with Knights of the Old Republic, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. No game will ever be perfect. Nothing can be perfect.

Anti Wall-of-Text edit.

Modifié par Einherjar420, 17 mars 2011 - 05:02 .


#100
UkiiUkii

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Agreeing so hard with OP. This game just completely blew my mind.

For me, Mass Effect 2 kind of set the quality standard that I expect from videogames.

Dragon Age 2...didn't so much raise that standard as completely BROKE it. It will be so hard to play other videogames now without being like "well, it's alright but it's not DA2"

Kudos to you Bioware, this game is brilliant. It was everything I could've hoped for and more.