178 réponses à ce sujet

[DariusKalera]

Psearo wrote...

DariusKalera wrote...

Psearo wrote...

TileToad wrote...

..Say what you will about Baldur's Gate, at least the combat worked much better than DA:O.

As much as I love BG..... the combat was simplistic. Really simplistic.
Fighter:
click on target, fight, move on to next target.
Cleric:
Buff party members, cast heal/cure spells when required.
Thief: Detect & disarm traps, pick locks, stealth & backstabbing.
Minsc:
Focus buffing on him, berzerk, sit back and watch him munch through Gnolls, Goblins, Kobolds, with a two-handed sword, whilst you have a couple of party members supporting from range.

And that differs from DA2 how?  Or for that matter, DA:O? 

It's the same basic combat for all three.  Differences being in the style and what was able to be produced on the hardware at the time.

I'm guessing you've never actually played Baldur's Gate, then played the sequel with Throne of Bhaal expansion installed.
If you had, you'd realise the changes between the two games (signifigant change with ToB), and that BG has a primitive combat system compared to DA:O and DA2.

Literally, that's about all there was to BG's combat, up until the final battle. In that, you couldn't just send Minsc off to chew up everything by putting him into berzerk (losing all control of him whenever he's berzerk), or the enemies would turn him into a gibbed and chunky, messy stain on the floor of the temple, whilst you have to have your party survive all the Arrows of Detonation being fired at them before you can even drop Tazok or get to Angelo.

lisakover wrote...

that welsh bint who voices merrill needs to get that huge gap in her teeth fixed

Uhm.... what, if anything, does Eve Myles' gappy teeth have to do with liking DA2????

Actually, I've completed them both multiple times and have the discs sitting right next to my keyboard. 

Now, as you said:
Fighter:
click on target, fight, move on to next target.  This differs from DA2 or DAO how?  Fighter is still doing the same thing just with different moves and now with AoE attacks.

Cleric:
Buff party members, cast heal/cure spells when required.  Oh, well, guess it is a mage in DA2 and DAO but still, for the most part, a buff monkey.  Unless you're playing a mage in which case you can really get some damage going but it was the same way before in the previous games.

Thief: Detect & disarm traps, pick locks, stealth & backstabbing.  That is a perfectly clear description of what a theif does in DA2.

The combat may have become more complex the the basics remain the same.

[johnny71181]

 I agree with the OP.  I loved DAO and I think DA2 is even better.

[dujh]

i played dao 15 time the whole way through plus numerus unfinnished characters, and i've finnished da2 3 times so far and they are both great games for diferent reasons, so i agree it is one of bioware's best games so far

[Eclipse_9990]

 http://t0.gstatic.co...ZUbkhIjLNI4&t=1

[Speakeasy13]

 I enjoyed DA2 too, I didn't prejudge it before it came out and I expected alot. I think I speak for a lot of non-hating Bioware fans who believed it could've been a better game than DA:O but sadly it just isn't. There are major fallacies in the OP's argument:

1) Bioware did the best they could with the time it's given:
So... EA is entitled to set unrealistic deadlines and rush a game onto shelves before it's finished? It seems you're talking about what DA2 could've and should've been, rather than the way it is. How could you still say that neither party is guilty?

2) You speak as if you knew how Bioware intended the DA franchise to be:
And if you don't know, then you're not entitled to say DA2 is closer to their original intent. Maybe aesthetically, but gameplay and story-wise? If you're not a producer/writer for the game then you shouldn't make that argument.

3) Did you do a statistical survey before you came up with the conclusion that it's the same people who complained about DA:O that complains about DA2?

4) DA2 'improved' upon DA:O
I dunno about that either... they're pretty much utterly different games. I give Bioware credits for taking risks and not doing more of the same, but DA2 really deviates from DA:O too far IMO. Unless if the OP insists that DA2 is the original and DA:O was the one that deviated, which is ludicrous at best, like the rest of his/her arguments.

Modifié par Speakeasy13, 21 mars 2011 - 09:55 .

[Psearo]

DariusKalera wrote...

Psearo wrote...

DariusKalera wrote...

Psearo wrote...

TileToad wrote...

..Say what you will about Baldur's Gate, at least the combat worked much better than DA:O.

As much as I love BG..... the combat was simplistic. Really simplistic.
Fighter:
click on target, fight, move on to next target.
Cleric:
Buff party members, cast heal/cure spells when required.
Thief: Detect & disarm traps, pick locks, stealth & backstabbing.
Minsc:
Focus buffing on him, berzerk, sit back and watch him munch through Gnolls, Goblins, Kobolds, with a two-handed sword, whilst you have a couple of party members supporting from range.

And that differs from DA2 how?  Or for that matter, DA:O? 

It's the same basic combat for all three.  Differences being in the style and what was able to be produced on the hardware at the time.

I'm guessing you've never actually played Baldur's Gate, then played the sequel with Throne of Bhaal expansion installed.
If you had, you'd realise the changes between the two games (signifigant change with ToB), and that BG has a primitive combat system compared to DA:O and DA2.

Literally, that's about all there was to BG's combat, up until the final battle. In that, you couldn't just send Minsc off to chew up everything by putting him into berzerk (losing all control of him whenever he's berzerk), or the enemies would turn him into a gibbed and chunky, messy stain on the floor of the temple, whilst you have to have your party survive all the Arrows of Detonation being fired at them before you can even drop Tazok or get to Angelo.

lisakover wrote...

that welsh bint who voices merrill needs to get that huge gap in her teeth fixed

Uhm.... what, if anything, does Eve Myles' gappy teeth have to do with liking DA2????

Actually, I've completed them both multiple times and have the discs sitting right next to my keyboard. 

Now, as you said:
Fighter:
click on target, fight, move on to next target.  This differs from DA2 or DAO how?  Fighter is still doing the same thing just with different moves and now with AoE attacks.

Cleric:
Buff party members, cast heal/cure spells when required.  Oh, well, guess it is a mage in DA2 and DAO but still, for the most part, a buff monkey.  Unless you're playing a mage in which case you can really get some damage going but it was the same way before in the previous games.

Thief: Detect & disarm traps, pick locks, stealth & backstabbing.  That is a perfectly clear description of what a theif does in DA2.

The combat may have become more complex the the basics remain the same.

Do you think that BG's combat worked better than DA:O's?
I was disagreeing with TileToad's comment.... that BG had better combat than DA:O.

Be honest now, when playing DA:O or DA2, have you just let one character take on all by him/herself while you have a coffee?

There is less to do, or worry about with BG's combat than there is with DA:O or DA2.
I suppose that's a better system, except for it getting boring. Really fast.

[Speakeasy13]

But BG DOES have better combat than DA:O. Comparing DA2 to BG will be apples and oranges (and I like em both), but BG vs. DA:O is fair game. BG does allow more combo and liberty with 6 party members and more classes to pick from. Yes most of BG could be beaten with just Minsc, but you are free to explore other options too.

Modifié par Speakeasy13, 21 mars 2011 - 10:15 .

[ruttunenn]

-Kirkwall empty and dead
-C4 filled enemies
-TMNT fight moves
- Its raining enemies not water
- Maps can be counted with fingers , why did you not even bother to change the layout , you can use the same assets thats ok but for raptor jesuses sake at least change the layout instead of just locking different doors and calling it a different place.
- No diplomatic approach
Example:
- Enemies barring you from entering you go talk to them
- Option 1 peaceful : " May you let me pass I do not want to harm you -> No
- Option 2 witty : " Insert joke let me enter " -> No
- Option 3 agression : " Me hawke me smash " -> success

And that keeps repeating with the change that usually even the other options lead to sexy action thriller explosion bloodbath.

How about this then , I found someones dad dead in dungeon and instantly know who it belongs to. Grab the corpse and drag it to a random person in city who is grateful for me returning it??

Or Janitor Hawke the greatest junk cleaner you have met , no wonder Kirkwall and near by areas are so clean.

Well I might have just replied OP`s troll but meh.

[royceclemens]

I love the game, to be quite honest. Yeah, it does seem a little rushed, but I'm actually in the minority that's blaming BioWare for that instead of EA. If EA will s--tcan NBA Elite '11 (which I'm betting was more expensive to produce and would have sold more copies than DAII in the US at least), then they would have had no problem delaying DAII. BioWare got overeager. EA didn't get greedy (for once).

And I get the gripe about the reused maps, though it's not bothering me as much as it seems to bother most others here. After having played Mass Effect, the reused environments in DAII are a walk in the park. They're a new BioWare tradition, like romances and horrible, horrible balancing issues.

In fact, the only thing that's really, truly and honestly bugging me are all the goddamned sequel hooks. This plagued DAO as well. There's nothing more irritating than being introduced to a ton of character subplots and being told "THIS WILL PAY OFF IN THE NEXT GAME! TRUST US!" I never thought I'd say this, but on this respect, the Mass Effect writers are a hell of a lot more subtle about it than the Dragon Age writers are.

[Psearo]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

But BG DOES have better combat than DA:O.

Why do you believe that?
What, in your opinion, about BG's combat is better than DA:O's combat?

[arathor_87]

Best game to date? For me ist not even on my top 20 list..

[Leiermann]

Really? O_0. like a interactive movie or action abventure no is bad... Sonic and DA2 are the worst BW games

[JamieCOTC]

DA2 does have some good things. I loved Hawke's character, the story and how the lore fit into the story. Conversations w/ companions were good, but there just weren't enough for me to really know the characters. For me, faster combat was a welcome change, but it was just too repetitive to be fun. I'm actually playing the game on normal so I can breeze through the combat for the story. Storywise, I give BW credit for being different, but the game is ultimately a disappointment.

[Hrungr]

Just finished my first playthrough yesterday and felt it was pretty good overall. Not as strong an overall package as Origins, but it kept me sufficiently engrossed throughout.

I avoided spoilers like the plague and so they definitely sold me on the key moments in the game. There were at least a couple of decisions that gave me pause and that's certainly one of the hallmarks of a good Bioware game...

The combat has improved so much that it would be tough to go back to Origins-style now. I even got used to the lack of an overhead/detached camera view, though grudgingly... Played through as a Rogue and while I miss the quick-switch weapons, I think I stuck with the bow for about 85% of the game.

The lack of variety in environments would probably be my biggest gripe. Warehouses and mansions you can argue could be laid out the same, but seeing the same cavern layout 6 times in a row and it noticeably cheapens the game. Barren city streets I'm sure will be dealt with by the community for those of us who have machines that could handle it. The spawning-out-of-nowhere enemies was my 2nd biggest gripe. Spiders descending out of thin air was almost comical...

One thing I was very impressed by was the fact the game did not crash once. 46+ hours and not one hiccup. And that's running DX11 + HR Textures + everything set to max. (except AA). Origins, even without mods, would crash at least 7-10 times before then. So kudos there.

Modifié par Hrungr, 21 mars 2011 - 09:20 .

[kreite]

I support you, thank you for posting, this gave me hope.

[PuppetSoul]

Mavkiel wrote...

*blinks* Took me a minute, but this post actually makes sense if you read everything sarcastically.

This^

I'd like to crown the OP the best troll on the forum.  Post is both intentional flamebait, but also a fairly witty parody of reality when read with a srsface.  Bravo OP, Bravo.

[Thibbledorf26]

Ad Dugg wrote...

Persephone wrote...
Valid according to THEM. Have you seen what has been going on at Metacritic and Amazon? It's absolutely shameful behavior. Now I understand if someone who is disappointed wants to voice his/her opinion. But the way people who like this game and openly stand by it are treated is disgusting. Hell, some idiot on Amazon accused me of HAVING TO BE a PR Agent or Shareholder of Bioware/EA because I dared to write a positive review! How do you justify that?

You can't.

It's a disgrace how some people on the internet just don't know how to voice an opinion.

There are also supporters of the game who post insulting messages towards those who have constructive criticism (calling them troll, elitist, idiots or morons), or assume they must not like the game because they wanted 'BG2.5' or 'DA1.5'.

[Lord Gremlin]

True enough, game is fascinating. I've expected no less after Origins. Well, once I've played through it 5-10 times I'll be back here, with a smelly bag of complaints, that's just how things are.

[Paeyne]

There are many things in DA2 I like and many things I don't like at all... but how someone can call DA2 one of Bioware's best games to date with a straight face simply astounds me. I can't see your face but I am assuming its straight. No little winks or smirky emoticons.

[AddictedRebel72]

Not finished yet but from what I've played so far.....I will never doubt bioware again! Of course it's not perfect but with the amount of time they had, I'm very impressed.
Not sure about PC players but no 360 owner should be complaining about the graphics they look incredible on my new 1080p!
THANK YOU so far bioware, great job!

[CaptainVanguard]

Some folks might also forget that ignoring the secondary quests of Origins you could more or less do the game in the exact same amount of time as DA 2 without doing the secondary quests. I struggle to see how people havent quite remembered that when Origins first came out, there were enough complaints about it to fill a truck.

I struggle to see further how there are some in the community who disapprove of changes they themselves wanted to see addressed. Once again, its people like that who tend to get ignored because they dont provide contructive feedback, they provide hatemail.

Lets make a clear cut difference between why people listen to feedback and not hatemail:

Feedback:
Feedback actually provides ideas to what you didnt like and how to improove on it. Now those who have provided actual feedback, I salute you, if you didnt enjoy the game then by all means suggest ways to improove it, personally I saw nothing wrong but there you go.

Hatemail:
Simply saying "I dont like this game" isnt automatically going to get you a means to solve your problem. Unless you actually want them to deal with it then I suggest you keep your mouth shut. Because if you cant help them analyse the problem you see and make a valid suggestion on how to solve it, then you are not qualified to make a comment about the problem in the first place.

You dont like that? Dont, I never said you had to like it, but at least I provided you with some "feedback" on how to fix "your" problem.

[bluewolv1970]

This is, IMO, it's worst original release to date, and second worse title overall, with only Shadows of Undrentide being worse (and that was an expansion)

[sassperella]

Merced652 wrote...

Haven't heard that before oh wait...

LEAVE BRITTNEY ALONE

I doubt EA handed down a date and told them to meet it, and if they had said it wasn't ready what was EA going do?

hahahahahahahsahahahahahahaha

you have no idea. My husband works for a games company and they are given the end game deadline and they have to meet it. So yes, they will have been given a very strict deadline.

[harrier25699]

 DA2 is a decent game in it's own right, but as a sequel to DA:O it leaves much to be desired, (see constructive criticism feedback sticky) but if all the factors such as time contraints counting against them and casual gamer orientated producers from EA  calling the shots (?) I'm still amazed it's as good as it is.  The team has obviously worked hard under pressure.  As for being one the best games todate... I still lean towards the 'golden oldies' like BG and DA:O.  This game has been designed towards a certain demogrphic so it's no surprise those said gamers will like it.  However the more 'hardcore' rpger's will be left wanting.  For it to be a 'best game' in my book it will need to cater for both and it doesn't.

[CaptainVanguard]

On that comment Harrier, I will agree.

But many people forget that if you dont provide the appropriate feedback instead of going "I dont like this change it" they wont know what you want changed.

But on that point you are correct, if DA 3 caters to both audiences im sure they will strike a good balance between action rpg and tactical rpg.

Effectivly take the tactical requirement from origins that put teamwork as a strong enphasis for encounters, combine that with the beutiful and brutal fast-paced action from Dragon Age 2 to make the challange strike the right balance and you have a definate winner for those who didnt enjoy DA2.

As Sassperella mentions, one of the other keys here is to remember that a company has deadlines. Theres only so much you can add to a game within those if your boss tells you "It has to be done on X date."

For those that dont appriciate the consequences of delaying a deadline:

1.
Your boss can pull your funds at any given time, make you bankrupt, force you to find other employment, in other words, no Dragon Age Origins, No Dragon Age 2, nothing.

2.
You can be blacklisted by other publishers who refuse to take up that cup and refuse to fund your goal towards the benefit of your player community. Simply because at the current market time it isnt a majority.

My point is:

If you dont appriciate how much effort Bioware has done given the time they had then you obviously dont appriciate Bioware no matter what game they produce.

If that is the case then why do you play Bioware games and why do you complain about them if you'll never be satisfied anyway?

Again:

Legitimate Feedback, such as Harrier's comment, that doesnt besmerch what they tried to do but also encourages things they "could" do ultimatley wins more points than making outlandish demands with no actual value behind them.