56 réponses à ce sujet

[Everwarden]

I don't think I need to re-tread the many, many reasons for people being disappointed in Dragon Age 2. But to give a very brief list:
-Ridiculous environment recycling.
-An abrupt, badly formulated end.
-No choices in the game that will at all affect the world at large.
-Railroading through some really silly moments that shatter immersion.  Examples: Being forced to fight mages over and over at the end, regardless of your previous support of the mage cause; being forced to hunt apostates for Meredith despite having denounced her publically; having to watch mommy die despite having visited the location several times previously and searching through the building.
-Retconning dead characters despite previously claiming that there wouldn't be any 'canon'. 

But this isn't a thread to debate whether or not the game was a disappointment. This is a thread where I ask my fellow disappointed fans: What exactly would make this right? Of course I know that whatever it is that would make it right, no matter how reasonable, it won't happen. But I'm still curious. 

For me all it would take is a public apology and acknowledgement of their mistake. A free "fix the end" DLC would sure help, but even if they just accepted fault and assured us it won't happen again in Dragon Age 3 I'd be entirely satisfied. 

[XX-Pyro]

They don't really owe you anything. It's not a mistake they made because you didn't like the game.

[Everwarden]

XX-Pyro wrote...

They don't really owe you anything. It's not a mistake they made because you didn't like the game.

But it's not just me. You'll notice a severe backlash against the game if you open your eyes. 

I don't think anyone is claiming that Bioware -literally- owes them something. I'm saying that the game was a disappointment, and I'm annoyed at them as a company. I also set a pretty low bar on what it would take for them to fix it*.

*Yes. Before some shill mentions it, I know that a single purchase isn't relevant to their business model. I'm still allowed to comment on my expectations as a customer and how they were not met. If you don't like it, well, you're free to buy ten copies of DA2 just to spite me. 

Modifié par Everwarden, 16 mars 2011 - 11:59 .

[TJPags]

Well, they could stop resurrecting characters we killed, stop ignoring the choices that were such a large part of DAO, and try having a little consistency in their story.

I really wonder who killed the AD, whether my Warden is dead or not, whether there's an Old God Baby running around, etc.

Man, the whole "you get to make choices - but only if we like them" thing is very annoying.

[Icy Magebane]

No way. It's a game that's far from perfect, but public apology? Free fixes? You're dreaming.

I don't even think it's fair to ask for such things... patches that fix glitches are one thing, but significantly altering the game at no cost just to make people happy? Way out of bounds to ask for something like that...

And they don't need to apologize for anything. They created a product for public consumption. It has glitches, but it's not even close to the crap that was Fallout New Vegas. THAT game should require an apology. This one is just below some peoples standards (including my own)... it's not broken in any way.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 17 mars 2011 - 12:01 .

[Everwarden]

Icy Magebane wrote...

No way. It's a game that's far from perfect, but public apology? Free fixes? You're dreaming.

I don't even think it's fair to ask for such things... patches that fix glitches are one thing, but significantly altering the game at no cost just to make people happy? Way out of bounds to ask for something like that...

And they don't need to apologize for anything. They created a product for public consumption. It has glitches, but it's not even close to the crap that was Fallout New Vegas. THAT game should require an apology. This one is just below some peoples standards... it's not broken in any way.

Sir! If you continue to insult the best game of all time (New Vegas), I will be forced to challenge you to a duel to the death. Think carefully before you continue, or the white glove comes off.

But to reply to your actual point.. you don't think they should apologize for such a lackluster sequel that has so many customers disappointed? I know that it's not -going- to happen (they'll just blame the customers for not accepting the awesome changes of awesomeness), but you're saying that if a game has large, gaping flaws that it's wrong to desire that they get fixed?

Note that I'm not -asking- for these problems to get fixed, because it will never happen. I'm just sharing my disappointment to vent some nerd sorrow. 

[errant_knight]

All I want is for DA3 to play like Origins.

I want to have real time conversations with my companions in the first person, not as a fly on the wall. I want full inventory control and control of the companions clothing.

I want all the spells that were cut back, and to have the freedom to build characters in as varied a way as I could in Origins.

I want believable combat with finishing moves slightly faster than in origins for the two handers and maybe for some s&s, but not for rogues. They were fast enough.

I want magic to look like magic, not archane weaponry. I don't want everyone teleporting.. I want my shield bash back in a way where I can actually see it happen with physical reaction from the target. I want holy smite and cleanse area to look like they did before.

I want the characters to be expressive again and not look like they're refugees from a Bethesda game. I want specular reflections on metal so armor doesn't look like cloth. I want a complete overhaul of the graphic style so it doesn't look like a Korean MMO.

I want the areas to be at least somewhat different, and not have to go back and forth between places constantly to do a quest. 

I want the game to ge fun again, not grim, grim, grim, and more companions that I can respect, not wonder when I will have to kill.

I want Origins to be the game model, not some other game that I'd never play.

I don't need or expect an apology, I just want them to fix this. Going from DA:O to this was like buying a condo for the ocen view then having it moved inland 20 miles with a picture of the ocean in the yard and a wading pool in front of it. It's still an okay condo, but the reason I wanted it is gone.

Modifié par errant_knight, 17 mars 2011 - 12:32 .

[Lurchibald]

Fallout: New Vegas actually had a good ending/s unlike DA2

[GodBID]

DA2 is a bit like a Uwe Boll movie, chaotic and little to no consistency, and once seen it can't be unseen, and i highly doubt BioWare will put more effort into DA2 beyond the 1 - 3 DLC's perhaps with some random patches here and there to fix glitches, i don't see anything else beyond that.

And Fallout:NW might not have been perfect in anyway, but at least the world was alive, your choices had ramafications beyond what you just did right there and then.

And the game might as well have been called: Dragon Age: The Kirkwall Chronicles, that is just epic fail making us run around in this god forsaken city the entire game, with minor excpetions here and there.

Modifié par GodBID, 17 mars 2011 - 12:21 .

[Icy Magebane]

I only mean all the glitches from NV. Like Caleb's hat causing the game to freeze every time you tried entering the Strip. I'm sure those who played the game know there are a LOT more, but that's one of the worst. It was a good game aside from the glitches...

Edit:  As far as the actual topic goes, trust me, I had some huge problems with this game, a lot of which you mentioned in your list.  But an apology just seems... I don't even know how to say it.  It seems like asking too much.  It's like asking Marvel to apologize for making the Civil War storyline because you didn't like Iron Man vs. Capatin America... it just seems wrong.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 17 mars 2011 - 12:10 .

[Everwarden]

Lurchibald wrote...

Fallout: New Vegas actually had a good ending/s unlike DA2

Throwing a certain someone off of the Dam at the end still have me howling with evil laughter every single time.

Now -THAT- is how you end an RPG. 

[Clonedzero]

Everwarden wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

No way. It's a game that's far from perfect, but public apology? Free fixes? You're dreaming.

I don't even think it's fair to ask for such things... patches that fix glitches are one thing, but significantly altering the game at no cost just to make people happy? Way out of bounds to ask for something like that...

And they don't need to apologize for anything. They created a product for public consumption. It has glitches, but it's not even close to the crap that was Fallout New Vegas. THAT game should require an apology. This one is just below some peoples standards... it's not broken in any way.

Sir! If you continue to insult the best game of all time (New Vegas), I will be forced to challenge you to a duel to the death. Think carefully before you continue, or the white glove comes off.

But to reply to your actual point.. you don't think they should apologize for such a lackluster sequel that has so many customers disappointed? I know that it's not -going- to happen (they'll just blame the customers for not accepting the awesome changes of awesomeness), but you're saying that if a game has large, gaping flaws that it's wrong to desire that they get fixed?

Note that I'm not -asking- for these problems to get fixed, because it will never happen. I'm just sharing my disappointment to vent some nerd sorrow. 

i loved New Vegas too but you gotta admit, that game was BUSTED. i can't even remember a game being that busted in a long long time. bugged quests, broken scripting, fairly common save file corruption, followers randomly disappoearing (falling through the floor) and never returning but still count as you having one. and those are just the ones i experienced.

DA2 is a fine game, i enjoyed it a TON. i thought the story and characters were on par, if not better than DA:O. the combat was more fun than DA:O in my opnion (tactical view woulda been nice but no biggy), it wasnt short or anything. sidequests had real stories to them. sure you get pushed down to one conclusion overall but thats fine i dont hold it against them.  i felt the gameplay was far more tactical and made me think alot more about how i was going to tackle fights, the cross class combos help make you untilize everyone much better. set up that shield slam and boom fist of the maker makes them go splat!

my only major issue with the game is the recycled dungeons got a bit tedious. (i think theres usually treasure down this hall, oh ho ho! you blocked it off this time clever!) and by a bit tedious i mean very tedious. at first i was gonna let it go, because i thought i was just in the same place as before but new people moved in, but then i saw that caves on the wounded coast were the same caves in sundermount i got a bit annoyed.

[Lurchibald]

With glitches I agree @Icy but i think the main gripe for most people (Including me) with DA2 isn't really glitches it's that there wasn't really an ending, we would have got just the same if they had shown us nothing but a big TO BE CONTINUED it felt as if all our decisions in the game meant nothing. Like how it says nothing about what our companions get up to just that they went their own ways.... that is it.

[Everwarden]

Clonedzero wrote...

i loved New Vegas too but you gotta admit, that game was BUSTED

...yeah, kinda. Though I got it on launch day and only ever had the game completely break on me twice. And to be fair, they had the bugs hammered out fairly quickly. 

I can be a lot more forgiving when a game is suffering from too much ambition (like New Vegas), instead of too little (like some other game that was just released). 

Modifié par Everwarden, 17 mars 2011 - 12:17 .

[Kingthlayer]

errant_knight wrote...

I want full inventory control and control of the companions clothing.

If you want to play dress up go buy a doll house.  Companions should be unique.  I think BioWare took a step in the right direction with this.  At least gone are the days when you can make Wynne a blood mage and other stupid ****.

[MerchantGOL]

Really with this thread?

Bioware dosent owe you ****

[Everwarden]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Really with this thread?

Bioware dosent owe you ****

I've already replied to that. Moving on. 

[Tigress M]

I'd like two things:

1. I'd like to hear Bioware say that they're not only listening (which they have said they are) but that they're actually A) going to take our opinions into consideration when making DA3 and implement some of our suggestions.

2. I'd like them to release a toolset for DA2 so that the community can begin working on improvements.

I don't think either of these things are unreasonable.

Modifié par Tigress M, 17 mars 2011 - 12:24 .

[errant_knight]

Big Mac Heart Attack wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

I want full inventory control and control of the companions clothing.

If you want to play dress up go buy a doll house.  Companions should be unique.  I think BioWare took a step in the right direction with this.  At least gone are the days when you can make Wynne a blood mage and other stupid ****.

Eff you too. If you can't comment more respectfully than that, why should I respond otherwise?

[Palando]

First off, I am in the camp that was disappointed but I think DA2 was very good game and I don't begrudge the money I spent on it. The problems were mostly with Act 3 (I can live with recycled environments, it's not ideal but meh). I think a lot of the problems could have been solved if they had given themselves a little more time. A quid-pro-quo solution is probably an option here, and if that's the case I will state that I am prepared to wait an extra 12 months for the next release if it means Bioware can iron out these problems.

[Lurchibald]

MerchantGOL wrote...

Really with this thread?

Bioware dosent owe you ****

Really? he is a customer and has every right to voice his disappointment of the product, if people never complain about stuff we'll just end up with 100 COD clones per year and nothing interesting. I mean if a car company brings out a new "Improved" model of car so you trade your previous model for it only to find out that great things about the previous model have been removed from the new model what? you should just put up and shut up about it?

[Everwarden]

Palando wrote...
 I will state that I am prepared to wait an extra 12 months for the next release if it means Bioware can iron out these problems.

If they would actually -fix- the problems and get the game up to par with Origins (actually up to par, not band aid fixes) I'd be happy to pay expansion price for that.

Of course what is going to be in the expansion is Hawke's next railroad trip through Kirkwall. Another glorious 3 hours of pretend choices and the same environments, and at the end we get to pretend that we have some sense of closure and are eagerly looking forward to being fleeced again in Dragon Age 3. 

[XOGHunter246]

I would like them to make a patch to get rid of some of the bugs and glitches. Improvements on the stupid ai and more banter in DA3 please this game felt more empty and even making the NPCs react when a fights happening (running) instead of just strolling by like it invisable lol (Hightown).  I know tactics has improved but it still needs work  in my book.

Also is it just me I never got the same feeling from this game as DAO because choices mattered in DAO.

Modifié par XOGHunter246, 17 mars 2011 - 12:44 .

[Everwarden]

XOGHunter246 wrote...
Also is it just me I never got the same feeling from this game as DAO because choices mattered in DAO.

No, it's not just you. There are no real choices in this game, just the illusion of them. Any choice you make will just be sidestepped by narrative wizards. 

[TJPags]

XOGHunter246 wrote...

Also is it just me I never got the same feeling from this game as DAO because choices mattered in DAO.

Not anymore they don't.