210 réponses à ce sujet

[Helen0rz]

He loved Hawke, there's no doubt about that. It was just very convenient for him/her to help him out because Hawke's the Champion. He wasn't expecting that when he met him/her.

[Sarah1281]

But he says it at the end: Hawke is the most important thing in his life, but freeing the mages has an importance beyond that, beyond his own life.

I know he actually SAYS this but I disagree. Freeing the mages may be more important than his own life but he's still choosing them over Hawke making it impossible for me to believe that Hawke is more important to him. I'm not saying that she should be, mind you, just that I don't believe it when he says it.

If Hawke has taken an interest in Anders' life and agrees with his points, s/he may very well have assisted him in helping mages out of the Gallows.

I doubt it. Even in Dissent Anders says that he can't tell you anything because you have too many ties to the nobility and the viscount when you're just the new scion of Amell. As the Champion of Kirkwall, you are WAY too high-profile to get involved.

It would have been helpful to have a scene at the beginning of Act III where Hawke could either reaffirm the relationship or choose to end it, to provide the sense that time has passed and both parties have changed and may no longer want the same things they wanted three years ago.

Doesn't the Act 3 codex mention that after the incident with Ella in Dissent, Anders tried to quit the cause but now he's coming back to it again? It's not like Anders has spent the past three years working for it so the change shouldn't be that drastic.

If you pick the right dialogue options he reads some of it to you. I can't remember word for word what he says.

Yeah, I really liked that conversation. Unfortunately, choosing to discuss the manifest in more detail meant Anders stormed off angrily without triggering the romance so I had to reload.

[Koffeegirl]

@Sarah..Yeah I had to reload too, Still reloading was worth it, just to hear him read the manifesto. I wish we could of had it as a codex entry. I liked seeing the differences between the rival and friend romances though.

For the poll: so far we have Anders loving Hawke winning.

[Miri1984]

He definitely loved Hawke. But his cause was more important. To my Hawke the cause was more important too. Even if she hated him she would have helped him by that stage.

[phantomdragoness]

Ninja Mage wrote...

He does love Hawke, but like he said, he was losing himself more and more each day and Justice would ultimately win. Hopefully you can save Anders somehow, because Justice is killing him inside.

This is evidenced by the fact that Anders said he should have trusted you before Onsino turns into an Abomination

I agree.

Anders is also very selfish, but that is mostly Justice's doing. I hope there is some DLC or point in DA3 where we can separate them - I'd hate to lose Anders, he's an interesting character; and hey, I always go for the torutred types. XD

[sassperella]

I doubt he'll be in it again as he's dead in so many playthroughs. It's a shame that they left it open like that it feels so unresolved. And yes I believe he loved Hawke, but Justice didn't and he was in control at the end.

[tanuki]

sassperella wrote...

I doubt he'll be in it again as he's dead in so many playthroughs. It's a shame that they left it open like that it feels so unresolved. And yes I believe he loved Hawke, but Justice didn't and he was in control at the end.

Considering his curcumstances i beleive it won't be a big problem to bring him back.... dead or a live. Cristoff/Wynne anyone?

[fluorine7]

Anders Loves Hawke, but he loves himself and his crusade a lot more.

[sassperella]

Ashley_82 wrote...

sassperella wrote...

I doubt he'll be in it again as he's dead in so many playthroughs. It's a shame that they left it open like that it feels so unresolved. And yes I believe he loved Hawke, but Justice didn't and he was in control at the end.

Considering his curcumstances i beleive it won't be a big problem to bring him back.... dead or a live. Cristoff/Wynne anyone?

True, but I think he's probably played the role Bioware wanted him to play. Don't get me wrong I'd really like him to come back, but I think they'll move on to pastures new.

[silver-crescent]

sassperella wrote...

I doubt he'll be in it again as he's dead in so many playthroughs. It's a shame that they left it open like that it feels so unresolved. And yes I believe he loved Hawke, but Justice didn't and he was in control at the end.

Actually, if you stick with Anders until the end, in the last convo he still says he loves Hawke and that he would rather be a fugitive with him/her than safe with anyone else and whatnot.

But I do agree I would have loved to have some closure.

[SurelyForth]

fluorine7 wrote...

Anders Loves Hawke, but he loves himself and his crusade a lot more.

I know his crusade is more important to him, but he doesn't love himself more than he loves Hawke. I'd say that DA2 Anders doesn't care much for himself at all, considering all the times he can refer to himself as a monster.

Modifié par SurelyForth, 21 mars 2011 - 04:12 .

[Sarah1281]

silver-crescent wrote...

sassperella wrote...

I doubt he'll be in it again as he's dead in so many playthroughs. It's a shame that they left it open like that it feels so unresolved. And yes I believe he loved Hawke, but Justice didn't and he was in control at the end.

Actually, if you stick with Anders until the end, in the last convo he still says he loves Hawke and that he would rather be a fugitive with him/her than safe with anyone else and whatnot.

But I do agree I would have loved to have some closure.

Sure, Hawke's more important to him than any other single person but he still lets you know flatly that if you're going to be with him, you're going to be crusading.

[Rinji the Bearded]

The cause is more important that love, yes. But he is not selfish in thinking that. If you choose to romance him, Meredith only tolerates him because the Champion is there. It's stated in the codex that he kind of dislikes this spotlight being put upon him, and I think this was because he was enjoying a bit of freedom while the mages still suffered. THIS was his act of selfishness and it tore him up inside.  He doesn't want the freedom of mages for just his own benefit.  He has watched comrades being raped and tortured and brutalized and lobotomized and took a spirit of Justice into himself to change the world -- for them, not just himself.

He loves the cause of the mages so much that he is willing to kill any one single person in Kirkwall to see that the revolution is started -- and that's not being selfish, it's being very idealistic and desperate.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 21 mars 2011 - 04:27 .

[Threeparts]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Sure, Hawke's more important to him than any other single person but he still lets you know flatly that if you're going to be with him, you're going to be crusading.

I don't necessarily see that as a bad thing. This is a cause that means a lot to mages all over Thedas, not just Anders, and asking him to give that up just to be with Hawke would be selfish of the PC. After all, if Hawke has spent all those years with him as a friend and partner, Hawke should know what to expect from a life with him, how driven he is to achieve freedom for mages. If Hawke isn't interested in a revolutionary, s/he should've backed away years ago. 

[Sarah1281]

I didn't say that I expected him to give it up. I was just commenting on the fact that you're going to take a backseat to this FOREVER.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I didn't say that I expected him to give it up. I was just commenting on the fact that you're going to take a backseat to this FOREVER.

And this isn't a bad thing, I don't think.  If  you're Hawke is strong in his/her conviction that all mages should be allowed to love as they did for a little while, fighting for that world would probably take a backseat to relationship bliss makes sense.  Trying to believe that they would ever live a normal life together and be free to love one another was always a cruel illusion.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 21 mars 2011 - 04:42 .

[Sarah1281]

In case it's not clear, my Hawke is nowhere near as dedicated to the cause as Anders is (she basically cares because of Bethany). So yes, for her it WOULD be a bad thing. And that relationship ends in tears anyway. Or blood, rather...

[Threeparts]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I didn't say that I expected him to give it up. I was just commenting on the fact that you're going to take a backseat to this FOREVER.

And this isn't a bad thing, I don't think.  If  you're Hawke is strong in his/her conviction that all mages should be allowed to love as they did for a little while, fighting for that world would probably take a backseat to relationship bliss makes sense.  Trying to believe that they would ever live a normal life together and be free to love one another was always a cruel illusion.

Even then, it doesn't really cheapen the relationship in any way. Sure, their lives will be dangerous, action-packed, and it will probably all end in tears, but three years later Varric says Anders was still by the Champion's side.
Imagine how strong that relationship would have to be to survive being hunted, being in constant danger, all while stoking the fires of a revolution. Hawke and Anders would have to trust each other implicitly to stay together on such a dangerous path, and I think Anders finally realises that before the final battle. It won't be a safe life, it won't be a settled life, but it could be a Maker-damned epic love story. 

[Sarah1281]

I mean, how healthy can it possibly be to stay with someone who makes it clear that they will kill you if you get in their way once war breaks out?

[Rinji the Bearded]

Sarah1281 wrote...

In case it's not clear, my Hawke is nowhere near as dedicated to the cause as Anders is (she basically cares because of Bethany). So yes, for her it WOULD be a bad thing. And that relationship ends in tears anyway. Or blood, rather...

It's as Anders said -- he is the cause of the mages, there's nothing else left in him.  You either accept it or you don't, sadly.  Not trying to knock on you, but him being in love with Hawke was nothing that could ever realistically work out.  If Hawke loves Anders and stay with him, it's a matter of fighting for a world where people like Hawke and Anders can fall in love and not have the threat of Templars coming in and tearing them apart.  Idealistic and scary, yes, but the feeling of taking that plunge with him was kind of thrilling to me.

threeparts wrote...

Even then, it doesn't really cheapen the relationship in any way.
Sure, their lives will be dangerous, action-packed, and it will
probably all end in tears, but three years later Varric says Anders was
still by the Champion's side.
Imagine how strong that
relationship would have to be to survive being hunted, being in constant
danger, all while stoking the fires of a revolution. Hawke and Anders
would have to trust each other implicitly to stay together on such a
dangerous path, and I think Anders finally realises that before the
final battle. It won't be a safe life, it won't be a settled life, but
it could be a Maker-damned epic love story. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png[/smilie]

Damn straight!  Call me nuts but I think that is epic.  Would I ever do something like that in real life?  No.  But then why do I play video games and read fiction?  Because I can somehow relate it to real life?  Nope.

Modifié par RinjiRenee, 21 mars 2011 - 04:57 .

[Sarah1281]

RinjiRenee wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

In case it's not clear, my Hawke is nowhere near as dedicated to the cause as Anders is (she basically cares because of Bethany). So yes, for her it WOULD be a bad thing. And that relationship ends in tears anyway. Or blood, rather...

It's as Anders said -- he is the cause of the mages, there's nothing else left in him.  You either accept it or you don't, sadly.  Not trying to knock on you, but him being in love with Hawke was nothing that could ever realistically work out.  If Hawke loves Anders and stay with him, it's a matter of fighting for a world where people like Hawke and Anders can fall in love and not have the threat of Templars coming in and tearing them apart.  Idealistic and scary, yes, but the feeling of taking that plunge with him was kind of thrilling to me.

 Oh, I'm quite aware that it wouldn't have lasted. I think my Hawke would have to be quite naive to believe a stable relationship with an abomination revolutionary could ever last. I still romance him until that point, though.

[Threeparts]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I mean, how healthy can it possibly be to stay with someone who makes it clear that they will kill you if you get in their way once war breaks out?

How healthy would Hawke have to be in the first place to get involved with a man who is possessed, who nearly kills (or does kill) an innocent girl in front of Hawke, and warns the PC away repeatedly with warnings of danger and heartbreak? I don't know if a relationship with Anders is something a completely stable, rational person would really choose.

[Rinji the Bearded]

Threeparts wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I mean, how healthy can it possibly be to stay with someone who makes it clear that they will kill you if you get in their way once war breaks out?

How healthy would Hawke have to be in the first place to get involved with a man who is possessed, who nearly kills (or does kill) an innocent girl in front of Hawke, and warns the PC away repeatedly with warnings of danger and heartbreak? I don't know if a relationship with Anders is something a completely stable, rational person would really choose.

Exactly...  You saw right off the bat what he was capable of doing.  He warns Hawke over and over.  But Hawke keeps pressing him.  Then that kiss.  

You had to see the heartbreak coming from a million miles away, only because Anders was wearing a big "I am a heartbreaker" sign around his neck.

[Sarah1281]

Threeparts wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I mean, how healthy can it possibly be to stay with someone who makes it clear that they will kill you if you get in their way once war breaks out?

How healthy would Hawke have to be in the first place to get involved with a man who is possessed, who nearly kills (or does kill) an innocent girl in front of Hawke, and warns the PC away repeatedly with warnings of danger and heartbreak? I don't know if a relationship with Anders is something a completely stable, rational person would really choose.

And it is infinitely less healthy once things start going down in Act 3. I can take a certain about of instability but the risk of being killed by your boyfriend over what could be something minor or a disagreement on the methods of the same goal is just too much. I felt Hawke's life was in much less danger in Act 1 and 2.

[Koffeegirl]

Hypothetically, if the mages win the war and mages are free. What do you think happen to Anders/Justice? Do you think him and Hawke would settle down happily or would the justice in Anders find a new cause?