210 réponses à ce sujet

[berelinde]

There is no doubt in my mind that Anders loved Hawke. The PC has the choice of whether to help Anders try to free himself from Justice or not. If s/he elects not to help, Anders will still go through with it. If he were using Hawke, he would deliver an ultimatum: "Help me make this potion or I'll leave you." Also, he will assemble the potion whether he is in a relationship or not.

So, in summary: Yes, he loves Hawke. He also attempts to use Hawke, but he will do this regardless of his relationship status.

[Sarah1281]

If he were using Hawke, he would deliver an ultimatum: "Help me make this potion or I'll leave you."

While I am on the side that thinks Anders loved Hawke, I don't think this is true. If Anders had issued an ultimatum and broke up with Hawke, that might have attracted too much attention and he didn't want to raise Hawke's suspicions any further given that he didn't want any interference.

[Threeparts]

Koffeegirl wrote...

Hypothetically, if the mages win the war and mages are free. What do you think happen to Anders/Justice? Do you think him and Hawke would settle down happily or would the justice in Anders find a new cause?

Depends on how long it takes. Anders is a Grey Warden, and has been one for at least ten years at the end of the game. He may not survive much longer, even without an Archdemon tormenting him. And should he free mages from the Circle, there's still the matter of what happens to mages in Qunari lands, and I could see him trying to tackle that. To which I say, good luck there, sweetheart.

[LastFadingSmile]

Koffeegirl wrote...

Hypothetically, if the mages win the war and mages are free. What do you think happen to Anders/Justice? Do you think him and Hawke would settle down happily or would the justice in Anders find a new cause?

I wondered about this... Justice is an embodiment of a human vitrue, and not specific to the mage cause -- that just happened to be what brought them together and set them on this terrible path. If not the plight of mages, Justice would find some other wrong to right. Maybe there won't ever be any peace for Anders as long as he's alive and Justice is a part of him. 

[SurelyForth]

Threeparts wrote...

Depends on how long it takes. Anders is a Grey Warden, and has been one for at least ten years at the end of the game. He may not survive much longer, even without an Archdemon tormenting him. And should he free mages from the Circle, there's still the matter of what happens to mages in Qunari lands, and I could see him trying to tackle that. To which I say, good luck there, sweetheart.

Even my most staunchly pro-mage characters would have to step back and be like "**** the saarebas, dude. Or do you not remember how it took four of us and three Gray Wardens almost five minutes to take down one of them in Lowtown?"

[Sarah1281]

That's a good point. The Qunari mage system is definitely broken. I mean, the Qunari tried to kill you because you heard a Qunari mage tell you that he hoped you found the Qun. Yes, clearly you're at risk of being influenced by a demon because of this. It's even worse given that this could have all been avoided if they had done the ritual elsewhere or waited until Hawke left!

[_Aine_]

I think he does. His inner motivations are now TWO people strong though. His will is now bigger than himself. He loved you. Yes. I think he really did and it is what kept at least part of Anders alive. He was slowly being consumed by Justice who just fed off any feeling Anders had of being wronged or victimized. Justice had no morality, only purpose. He was driven to right wrongs. In Anders, those wrongs were pro-mage, anti-chantry - Justice was a righteous *amplifier* to everything Anders felt in that regard... Think of your own biggest hate, and then have a spirit come in and exaggerate and amplify that 10 fold.... scary. Irony is when Anders says (in terms of demons to the blood mages) "Can't you people ever say no?". And yet, he couldn't see inviting a "friend", a good spirit as a similar thing. Maybe this is partly why he seems to hate what he has become with Justice, he feels it must be HIS doing and not the influence of a righteous and morally ambiguous spirit's influence.

Anders biggest crime was allowing a spirit, a "friend" into him. That one act of "friendship" and trust, unraveled him to the core and Justice has been feeding off Anders over the years your Hawke knows him. That they co-existed for THAT long is what shocks me. Truthfully, Hawke didn't ever know the *real* unadulterated Anders. But, what was actually Anders in the Anders you knew, *did* love you. I think anyway. This is just how I view it, so far anyway.

Modifié par shantisands, 21 mars 2011 - 05:54 .

[SurelyForth]

Sarah1281 wrote...

That's a good point. The Qunari mage system is definitely broken. I mean, the Qunari tried to kill you because you heard a Qunari mage tell you that he hoped you found the Qun. Yes, clearly you're at risk of being influenced by a demon because of this. It's even worse given that this could have all been avoided if they had done the ritual elsewhere or waited until Hawke left!

Qunaris will attack you if you let them know that Anders is a mage (and, presumably, Merrill). Him talking is enough to send them into a frenzy.

[Sarah1281]

SurelyForth wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

That's a good point. The Qunari mage system is definitely broken. I mean, the Qunari tried to kill you because you heard a Qunari mage tell you that he hoped you found the Qun. Yes, clearly you're at risk of being influenced by a demon because of this. It's even worse given that this could have all been avoided if they had done the ritual elsewhere or waited until Hawke left!

Qunaris will attack you if you let them know that Anders is a mage (and, presumably, Merrill). Him talking is enough to send them into a frenzy.

Yeah, but I could sort of understand that from their perspective, especially as when I got that option, I was arguing with them about the mage. If they were that freaked out about the Qunari mage talking, why unbound him? And if they must, why do it in front of an outsider they'd need to kill for hearing him speak? Did they think he'd be unbound and stay silent? And why does an outsider need to die for hearing those words but the Qunari themselves don't? That was the part of the game where I truly didn't understand them.

@shantisands: Very eloquent.

[Koffeegirl]

shantisands wrote...

I think he does. His inner motivations are now TWO people strong though. His will is now bigger than himself. He loved you. Yes. I think he really did and it is what kept at least part of Anders alive. He was slowly being consumed by Justice who just fed off any feeling Anders had of being wronged or victimized. Justice had no morality, only purpose. He was driven to right wrongs. In Anders, those wrongs were pro-mage, anti-chantry - Justice was a righteous *amplifier* to everything Anders felt in that regard... Think of your own biggest hate, and then have a spirit come in and exaggerate and amplify that 10 fold.... scary. Irony is when Anders says (in terms of demons to the blood mages) "Can't you people ever say no?". And yet, he couldn't see inviting a "friend", a good spirit as a similar thing. Maybe this is partly why he seems to hate what he has become with Justice, he feels it must be HIS doing and not the influence of a righteous and morally ambiguous spirit's influence.

Anders biggest crime was allowing a spirit, a "friend" into him. That one act of "friendship" and trust, unraveled him to the core and Justice has been feeding off Anders over the years your Hawke knows him. That they co-existed for THAT long is what shocks me. Truthfully, Hawke didn't ever know the *real* unadulterated Anders. But, what was actually Anders in the Anders you knew, *did* love you. I think anyway. This is just how I view it, so far anyway.

Well said. i agree with this whole heartedly. And the part where you say he feels that Justice turning is his influence, I agree that Anders believes this. On conversation, I think he says something along the lines of "I hate to think what I've done to my friend."

Joking: Also, on a side note this whole merging thing is partly Nathaniel's fault  bc I remember in Awakening he talks with Justice and convinces him it would be a good idea for Justice to merge with a live human to fight for a just cause.

Edit: @ Sarah, yes I could not understand that about the qunari mage quest either. I guess it shows the difference in the society, although  Ido not agree with it.

I do think Anders would not rest once the mages were freed and probably would tackle the qunari.........

Modifié par Koffeegirl, 21 mars 2011 - 06:17 .

[Koffeegirl]

Also, poll results update:
76% for Anders loved Hawke
24% for Anders did not love Hawke