470 réponses à ce sujet

[Bastal]

You know? The straight male gamer. The average gamer.

It surprised me to see some people praising Dragon Age 2 as the best game from BioWare yet, when
that was not clearly the case. It’s obvious that there are many areas of the
game which are lacking, the bland UI, the re-use of the incredibly flawed
equipment system in which 90% of the loot you can pick up can’t be used, the
repetitive and tiring side-quests, the story in which your choices have no affect the outcome, and a combat system marred by terrible controls and enemies that popped outta nowhere. But even with all those technical flaws, I should have liked this game more than I did, I mean, it’s still Dragon Age. I loved Origins. The background of the world was rich and interesting. And it was made by Bioware, famed for their excellent characters and writing. But for some reason, with Dragon Age 2, something just felt lacking. Aside from Varric and Bethany, I just couldn’t find myself liking the other companions that much.

And then I saw David Gaider say something interesting, that because they didn’t infinite time or resources, the developers had to prioritize what was important and focus on those
areas. Fair enough. But then I finally realized why there were people who
thought this was the best game ever from BioWare and why I thought it was one of
the worse. They neglected the straight male audience, the average gamer, opting
to make design choices that would appeal to only small groups of people.You only have to
play Dragon Age 2 for a few hours as Male Hawke to see why a person who identifies
himself by his sexual preference would praise BioWare for Dragon Age 2. There has
been no other game in history that has ever gone so far and to dedicate so many
resources for them. Two of the three male companions make a move on male Hawke
upon minutes of meeting him. The designers decided to spend time upon an
element of the game that would be enjoyed by less than 1% of its players and
would make the experiences of a much greater portion of players worse. Instead
of what could have been two male companions in which you could have been great
friends with, you have two gay companions in which you have awkwardly turned
down. How weird would Mass Effect 2 be once Garrus was recruited, he started to
make advances on you? You know, kind of like Anders, an established straight character
in Awakenings.

This is just one example of design choices made by the designers of Dragon Age 2 in which the average
gamer feels alienated. After experiencing the lame romances designed for the
straight male, I laughed when I remembered David Gaider saying that they spent
much more time on romances this time around. You have a choice between a loose pirate with STDs and an anorexic elf. Did the designers not see how these choices would only appeal
to a small portion of their audience?

From comments like David Gaiders declaring that he used Twilight as in inspiration for Dragon
Age 2 romance, an obvious attempt at appealing to the teenage girls and having
Aveline, a woman warrior clearly designed to appeal to feminists who decry the
lack of strong women in video games, the average gamer got shafted in Dragon
Age 2. And it showed in the MetaCritic user reviews. I seriously recommend you
read some of them; while a few the negative reviews are troll posts, most of them have have substance. You
have a small portion of players loving the game, and the vast majority disappointed with it it.

Now, I’m not against trying to bring in more people and making the game appeal to a wider audience,
but when you neglect to make your core audience happy, you’ll end up with a
mediocre game. Instead of first making sure you have great game, with a great
cast of characters that’ll appeal to the majority of your players and THEN add
in those extra features that’ll appeal to those players, you instead made those
players your priority and neglected essential elements of the game. In Dragon Age, a game with a much longer development
time, you had one gay companion Zevran. He was clearly a late addition made
after everything was almost perfect. That’s the model that should have been
followed.

I have hard time sympathizing with the excuse that you didn’t have enough resources to make new
environments or give us the ability to make choices that actually matter in the
story (like maybe side with the Qunari), a feature that would have been enjoyed
by everyone, yet had enough time to write gay love. And I don’t want hear
any bull about how different people do different stuff; you could have always
used the money to hire different people.

BioWare was given an incredibly short amount of time to produce a RPG by EA. I’m sure the
developers knew that they could not make a game that would appease EVERYONE in so little time, why then did they not choose to focus on the vast majority? Rather than a game that 99% of fans would call an extraordinary
game, we have a game that 30% of the fans hate, 60% of the fans find mediocre
and 1% of the fans love. I’m sure many would dispute these statistics, claiming
that feminists and homosexuals make up a far greater portion of than 1%, using
evidence of the population of BioWare social forum as evidence. What those
people fail to realize is that the vast majority[/b] of male gamers will not waste time posting on a forum. Millions of people bought and loved Dragon Age. The number of posts in the thread clamouring for
more homosexuality doesn’t even reach 1% of that number. I certainly did not
find the need to post until now. I thought, I’ve been happy with every single
game from BioWare, I’d have nothing to say. If anyone else feels the same way,
please find the time to register and speak up. Dragon Age 2 is no doubt a
product made with input from its fans, it’s just a shame BioWare focused on
feedback from a group of people who represented so few. In the end, the Dragon
Age 2’s failure is partially our fault..

Modifié par Bastal, 17 mars 2011 - 06:13 .

[Maria Caliban]

If I were going to stereotype the straight, male gamer, I'd suggest that an exotic, lusty, and bisexual pirate gal built like a brick s**t house might appeal to them.

[Drogo45]

Is this the Wisconsin Govenor?

[The Minority]

Don't assume you speak for all straight men.

Because I fully disagree with you.

[Schneidend]

Maria...you spirit-loving, demon apologist witch!

...I was totally going to be the first to point out Isabela. D:

[Taleroth]

As an internet person who claims to be a straight male gamer, I disagree. I do not feel neglected.

There are areas of the game I do feel were not up to my desires, but Anders' sexual preference would be a ludicrous item to point out and blame for it.

[AngelicMachinery]

I find it silly to suggest that a straight male gamer is bioware's core demographic... the longest thread I've seen is about Male on Male romance.

[David Gaider]

Bastal wrote...
From comments like David Gaiders declaring that he used Twilight as in inspiration for Dragon Age 2 romance

I'll just point out that I did no such thing.

Twilight came up in conversation and I said that the romance in Twilight was well done-- for what it was meant to be-- and was interesting enough to merit examination. That's all.

There's a lot of assumptions in there, not least of which is a certain amount of privilege (not to mention an assumption that all straight male gamers must like the same thing), but I'll leave that to be discussed by everyone else.

Modifié par David Gaider, 17 mars 2011 - 05:40 .

[upsettingshorts]

Maria Caliban wrote...

If I were going to stereotype the straight, male gamer, I'd suggest that an exotic, lusty, and bisexual pirate gal built like a brick s**t house might appeal to them.

As a stereotype straight male gamer the exotic, lusty, bisexual pirate gal built like a brick s**t house did appeal to me.

[DamnThoseDisplayNames]

I am a cold barbaric homophobial vodka-drinking all-women-must-wear-skirts-and-ribbons gamer, but, actually, with so many design flaws like monotonous combat and recycled locations, I forget about the "fanservice heart-button" pretty fast and it was't that of the issue. Still, Anders dissapointed me. I remembered him as a "a pretty girl and a good drink" guy, not a bi-antichantry-terrorist abomination with ecstatic to stupidity idea of justice.

[shnizzler93]

Do not create anecdotal evidence that you cannot back up.

Also, I'm positive that more than just 1% of the population is homosexual. Naturally, I cannot prove that however. 

Another thing, why does every post I read that critisizes Dragon Age 2 make it seem as if Dragon Age: Origins is God's greatest gift to mankind?

[The Minority]

David Gaider wrote...

Bastal wrote...
From comments like David Gaiders declaring that he used Twilight as in inspiration for Dragon Age 2 romance

I'll just point out that I did no such thing.

Twilight came up in conversation and I said that the romance in Twilight was well done-- for what it was meant to be-- and was interesting enough to merit examination. That's all.

There's a lot of assumptions in there, not least of which is a certain amount of privilege (not to mention an assumption that all straight male gamers must like the same thing), but I'll leave that to be discussed by everyone else.

*Stands up and claps*

Anyway, as much as I despise myself for actually seeing the Twilight film(shoot me please) the whole emotional teen thing is quite appealing to some people.

[Ninja Mage]

Needs more WHINE

~pours glass of wine~

[AtreiyaN7]

Anybody have a nerf gun handy? I'd like to shoot myself in the head with it in the hopes that it will temporarily knock me out and make me forget that I bothered to read this thread.

[dtmoss]

I'm straight and male and I liked the romance...

[Drogo45]

What thread?

[Mr.Skar]

Straight male gamer here, not feeling left out at all. Merrill was my gal (though I won't argue over the appeal of Isabela) so I'm feeling pretty catered too.

[olalag]

as a female player i can honestly say i felt the absence of masculine worrior straight not gay warden besies whom alll in all i could feel im a woman but what i got were four bisex girls one definite gay and an elf whos... well hes an elf.

[Bastal]

The Minority wrote...

Don't assume you speak for all straight men.

Because I fully disagree with you.

Never assumed I did. That would be extremely foolish. You clearly did not mind the homosexuality and found Isabella to your tastes. That's fine. I'm merely stating my opinion, that the Straight Male Gamer demographics, a huge group with a wide range of dislikes and likes, got a proportionality small amount of consideration. As it is, for many gamers like me, you might have just as well removed all romances in the game, and it would have been a better experience for me.

[sreaction]

Bastal wrote...

You know? The straight male gamer. The average gamer.It surprised me
to see some people praising Dragon Age 2 as the best game from BioWare yet, when
that was not clearly the case. It’s obvious that there are many areas of the
game which are lacking, the bland UI, the re-use of the incredibly flawed
equipment system in which 90% of the loot you can pick up can’t be used, the
repetitive and tiring side-quests, the story in which your choices have no
affect the outcome, and a combat system marred by terrible controls and enemies
that popped outta nowhere. But even with all those technical flaws, I should
have liked this game more than I did, I mean, it’s still Dragon Age. I loved Origins. The background of the world was rich
and interesting. And it was made by Bioware, famed for their excellent
characters and writing. But for some reason, with Dragon Age 2, something just felt
lacking. Aside from Varric and Bethany, I just couldn’t find myself liking the
other companions that much.

And then I saw David
Gaider say something interesting, that because they didn’t infinite time or resources, the developers had to prioritize what was important and focus on those
areas. Fair enough. But then I finally realized why there were people who
thought this was the best game ever from BioWare and why I thought it was one of
the worse. They neglected the straight male audience, the average gamer, opting
to make design choices that would appeal to only small groups of people.You only have to
play Dragon Age 2 for a few hours as Male Hawke to see why a person who identifies
himself by his sexual preference would praise BioWare for Dragon Age 2. There has
been no other game in history that has ever gone so far and to dedicate so many
resources for them. Two of the three male companions make a move on male Hawke
upon minutes of meeting him. The designers decided to spend time upon an
element of the game that would be enjoyed by less than 1% of its players and
would make the experiences of a much greater portion of players worse. Instead
of what could have been two male companions in which you could have been great
friends with, you have two gay companions in which you have awkwardly turned
down. How weird would Mass Effect 2 be once Garrus was recruited, he started to
make advances on you? You know, kind of like Anders, an established straight character
in Awakenings.

This is just one
example of design choices made by the designers of Dragon Age 2 in which the average
gamer feels alienated. After experiencing the lame romances designed for the
straight male, I laughed when I remembered David Gaider saying that they spent
much more time on romances this time around. You have a choice between a loose pirate with STDs and an anorexic elf. Did the designers not see how these choices would only appeal
to a small portion of their audience?

From comments
like David Gaiders declaring that he used Twilight as in inspiration for Dragon
Age 2 romance, an obvious attempt at appealing to the teenage girls and having
Aveline, a woman warrior clearly designed to appeal to feminists who decry the
lack of strong women in video games, the average gamer got shafted in Dragon
Age 2. And it showed in the MetaCritic user reviews. I seriously recommend you
read some of them; while a few the negative reviews are troll posts, most of them have have substance. You
have a small portion of players loving the game, and the vast majority disappointed with it it.

Now, I’m not against
trying to bring in more people and making the game appeal to a wider audience,
but when you neglect to make your core audience happy, you’ll end up with a
mediocre game. Instead of first making sure you have great game, with a great
cast of characters that’ll appeal to the majority of your players and THEN add
in those extra features that’ll appeal to those players, you instead made those
players your priority and neglected essential elements of the game. In Dragon Age, a game with a much longer development
time, you had one gay companion Zevran. He was clearly a late addition made
after everything was almost perfect. That’s the model that should have been
followed.

I have hard time
sympathizing with the excuse that you didn’t have enough resources to make new
environments or give us the ability to make choices that actually matter in the
story (like maybe side with the Qunari), a feature that would have been enjoyed
by everyone, yet had enough time to write gay love. And I don’t want hear
any bull about how different people do different stuff; you could have always
used the money to hire different people.

BioWare was
given an incredibly short amount of time to produce a RPG by EA. I’m sure the
developers knew that they could not make a game that would appease EVERYONE in so little time, why then did they not choose to focus on the
vast majority? Rather than a game that 99% of fans would call an extraordinary
game, we have a game that 30% of the fans hate, 60% of the fans find mediocre
and 1% of the fans love. I’m sure many would dispute these statistics, claiming
that feminists and homosexuals make up a far greater portion of than 1%, using
evidence of the population of BioWare social forum as evidence. What those
people fail to realize is that the vast majority[/b]
of male gamers will not waste time posting on a forum. Millions of people
bought and loved Dragon Age. The number of posts in the thread clamouring for
more homosexuality doesn’t even reach 1% of that number. I certainly did not
find the need to post until now. I thought, I’ve been happy with every single
game from BioWare, I’d have nothing to say. If anyone else feels the same way,
please find the time to register and speak up. Dragon Age 2 is no doubt a
product made with input from its fans, it’s just a shame BioWare focused on
feedback from a group of people who represented so few. In the end, the Dragon
Age 2’s failure is partially our fault..

Interesting array of statistics (?), please enlighten me on the your source/s.
example/s:

"The designers decided to spend time upon an
element of the game that would be enjoyed by less than 1% of its players

99% of fans would call an extraordinary
game, we have a game that 30% of the fans hate, 60% of the fans find mediocre
and 1% of the fans love.

Millions of people
bought and loved Dragon Age. The number of posts in the thread clamouring for
more homosexuality doesn’t even reach 1% of that number"

[Ninja Mage]

  But seriously, just because they've given more people options, doesn't mean they were specifically trying to make your play experience worse,Bastal

. Isabela and Merrill are very attractive and I don't see how you could be dissapointed with those two romance choices.. The resources that were  spent were used to give options to EVERYONE, not just yourself.So while you don't want Anders and Fenris to be bisexual, that would definitely diminish my play experience.

I've heard some guys say that they wanted a love interest like Bethany, well I wanted ANY type of  love interest in mass effect but I didn't get one. So I know were you're coming from but giving people more roleplaying choices is not a bad thing. Anders was a sweetheart and made my game more fun,  bottomline. If you wanted a bromance you could have one with Varric

Modifié par Ninja Mage, 17 mars 2011 - 06:01 .

[Bastal]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

I am a cold barbaric homophobial vodka-drinking all-women-must-wear-skirts-and-ribbons gamer, but, actually, with so many design flaws like monotonous combat and recycled locations, I forget about the "fanservice heart-button" pretty fast and it was't that of the issue. Still, Anders dissapointed me. I remembered him as a "a pretty girl and a good drink" guy, not a bi-antichantry-terrorist abomination with ecstatic to stupidity idea of justice.

I wouldn't put myself exactly in those terms. But that's exactly my point. You have a huge male demographic, with a wide range of likes and dislikes.

[The Minority]

Bastal wrote...

The Minority wrote...

Don't assume you speak for all straight men.

Because I fully disagree with you.

Never assumed I did. That would be extremely foolish. You clearly did not mind the homosexuality and found Isabella to your tastes. That's fine. I'm merely stating my opinion, that the Straight Male Gamer demographics, a huge group with a wide range of dislikes and likes, got a proportionality small amount of consideration. As it is, for many gamers like me, you might have just as well removed all romances in the game, and it would have been a better experience for me.

I'll admit not every man has the opinion.

But the fact that romances are there is bothering you? That I don't understand.

[Lawrence- Mage of the Grey Wardens]

As a straight male gamer, I was offended by Isabella. Not every straight male gamer is a horny 13 year old that masturbates to over-sexualized cartoon women.

[Bastal]

Ninja Mage wrote...

But seriously, just because they have given more people options, doesn't mean they were specifically trying to make your play experience worse Bastal. Isabela and Merrill are very attractive and I don't see how you could be dissapointed. The resources spent were used to give options to EVERYONE, not just yourself, so while you don't want Anders and Fenris to be bisexual, that would diminish my play experience. I've heard some guys say they wanted a love interest like Bethany, well I wanted ANY love interest in mass effect but I didn't get a thing. So I know where you're coming from but giving people choices is not a bad thing. Anders was a sweetheart and made my game fun. bottomline. If you wanted a bromance you could have one with Varric.

If Dragon Age 2 had same development time as Dragon Age, I might agree with you. They didn't add in the other romances (which I'm saying would be appreciated by a very few people), without taking out from another. I would've liked even a maybe a non-companion romance option, seeing as how we spend 10 years in the city. And you know the saying, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I know you fine Isabela and Merrill to your liking, that's great. My problem is that the options available in my eyes are just terrible.

I would have preferred to gutting romance and then spending the time on fixing the other issues.