470 réponses à ce sujet

[mordarwarlock]

Twilight came up in conversation and I said that the romance in Twilight was well done-- for what it was meant to be-- and was interesting enough to merit examination. That's all.

why david?....just....why?

twilight romance and everything regarding that book is everything but well done, it appealed to the common lowest denominator, teenage prepubescent girls, which is good "for the book", but that's not your core demographic, not it will ever be

much like Call of Duty FPS fans were never, ever, your audience when you made DA:O, not they will never, ever be, even if you lower the game standards with DA 2 to appeal to an audience that never cared for your games, nor the genre itself, and they never will

Modifié par mordarwarlock, 17 mars 2011 - 06:03 .

[Bastal]

The Minority wrote...

Bastal wrote...

The Minority wrote...

Don't assume you speak for all straight men.

Because I fully disagree with you.

Never assumed I did. That would be extremely foolish. You clearly did not mind the homosexuality and found Isabella to your tastes. That's fine. I'm merely stating my opinion, that the Straight Male Gamer demographics, a huge group with a wide range of dislikes and likes, got a proportionality small amount of consideration. As it is, for many gamers like me, you might have just as well removed all romances in the game, and it would have been a better experience for me.

I'll admit not every man has the opinion.

But the fact that romances are there is bothering you? That I don't understand.

The homosexuality is bothering me. But what I'm more concerned about is that BioWare doesn't have its priorities straight. Make a great game with great gameplay first, and then focus on that other stuff. In Dragon Age 2's case, they didn't have time to do both, and now we have what we have.

[QwibQwib]

shnizzler93 wrote...

Do not create anecdotal evidence that you cannot back up.

Also, I'm positive that more than just 1% of the population is homosexual. Naturally, I cannot prove that however. 

Another thing, why does every post I read that critisizes Dragon Age 2 make it seem as if Dragon Age: Origins is God's greatest gift to mankind?

Dragon Age: Origins is the greatest gift of humankind.

Anyways


Honestly, what Bioware tried to do was chase after two rabbit, and although I don't know if they ever caught the console fanbase, they failed to do so in pc fanbase. I do think that some Love Interest should be made straight, like Fenris or Anders, IMO I just don't think their personality fits the bisexual type. 

There's greaters flaws to look at other than romance.

[Ellestor]

mordarwarlock wrote...

Twilight came up in conversation and I said that the romance in Twilight was well done-- for what it was meant to be-- and was interesting enough to merit examination. That's all.

why david?....just....why?

twilight romance and everything regarding that book is everything but well done, it appealed to the common lowest denominator, teenage prepubescent girls, which is good "for the book", but that's not your core demographic, not it will ever be

it appealed to [...] teenage prepubescent girls

Which is what he's saying, you'll notice....

Modifié par Ellestor, 17 mars 2011 - 06:07 .

[Bastal]

mordarwarlock wrote...

Twilight came up in conversation and I said that the romance in Twilight was well done-- for what it was meant to be-- and was interesting enough to merit examination. That's all.

why david?....just....why?

twilight romance and everything regarding that book is everything but well done, it appealed to the common lowest denominator, teenage prepubescent girls, which is good "for the book", but that's not your core demographic, not it will ever be

much like Call of Duty FPS fans were never, ever, your audience when you made DA:O, not they will never, ever be, even if you lower the game standards with DA 2 to appeal to an audience that never cared for your games, nor the genre itself, and they never will

See, I disagree with the sentiment. I liked Call of Duty just fine for what it is. A cinematic first person shooter with cliche but still engaging storyline. But Dragon Age was also great for what it was. I could definitely see the Call of Duty players playing Dragon Age, maybe not the hardcore ones, but still.

[mordarwarlock]

Which is what he's saying, you'll notice....

umm no, he literally said "it was well done--for what it was meant to be", sure, it was meant to please teenage girls, nothing wrong with it

then he comes with "it was interesting enough to merit examination"

what examination?, what can you possibly get out of examining such thing?, how to create cheesy romantic stories for teenage prepubescent girls?, it just doesn't make sense

if anything twilight stories need to be disregarded completely as a source of literature ideas......

See, I disagree with the sentiment. I liked Call of Duty just fine
for what it is. A cinematic first person shooter with cliche but still
engaging storyline. But Dragon Age was also great for what it was. I
could definitely see the Call of Duty players playing Dragon Age, maybe
not the hardcore ones, but still.

the problem is when you lower the game standards to appeal to a crowd that were never part of the first game and never cared about RPGS, sure there are "some" of them, but it seems their objective was to appeal to a vast majority of CoD FPS fans, and they never cared for anything regarding RPG nor bioware at all....

Modifié par mordarwarlock, 17 mars 2011 - 06:11 .

[The Minority]

Bastal wrote...

mordarwarlock wrote...

Twilight came up in conversation and I said that the romance in Twilight was well done-- for what it was meant to be-- and was interesting enough to merit examination. That's all.

why david?....just....why?

twilight romance and everything regarding that book is everything but well done, it appealed to the common lowest denominator, teenage prepubescent girls, which is good "for the book", but that's not your core demographic, not it will ever be

much like Call of Duty FPS fans were never, ever, your audience when you made DA:O, not they will never, ever be, even if you lower the game standards with DA 2 to appeal to an audience that never cared for your games, nor the genre itself, and they never will

See, I disagree with the sentiment. I liked Call of Duty just fine for what it is. A cinematic first person shooter with cliche but still engaging storyline. But Dragon Age was also great for what it was. I could definitely see the Call of Duty players playing Dragon Age, maybe not the hardcore ones, but still.

I agree with you on this. It is possible to like Call of Duty and both Dragon Ages!

Your mind = Blown

[NinjaNerd]

olalag wrote...

as a female player i can honestly say i felt the absence of masculine worrior straight not gay warden besies whom alll in all i could feel im a woman but what i got were four bisex girls one definite gay and an elf whos... well hes an elf.

Exactly. I know that bioware won't ever be able to outdo themselves on Alistair, who basically ruined IRL men for fully 100% of the women I know who played DA:O 

The thing is, even I was creeped out by the whining, emotional men in DA2. In fact, I hated all the male companions, and Isabela to boot. The whole "bisexual female ****" stereotype gets boring after you hit 16. 

The most compelling characters was Aveline, who isn't a romance option, and Merrill, who is adorably awkward. The rest of the characters were dry and uninteresting, especially compared to DA:O. At least ****ty Morrigan didn't hit on all the female characters the way the dudes to if any male Hawke is even remotely nice to them. Giving a bro a high five doesn't mean you want to knock boots with your other male buddy. -.-;; 

Bioware totally fell short on this. 

But it's just a preface to DA3 anyhow, so why even worry, right? xD

[Schneidend]

You know what, mordar? You're right. What was David Gaider thinking? He's never written a good video game romance in his entire life. What the hell was he thinking reading stuff you don't like? That jerk.

[David Gaider]

mordarwarlock wrote...
why david?....just....why?

twilight romance and everything regarding that book is everything but well done, it appealed to the common lowest denominator, teenage prepubescent girls, which is good "for the book", but that's not your core demographic, not it will ever be

Who said it was? Did I?

The book set out to appeal to a particular group. It did that well. I tried to get through it, mostly out of curiosity's sake, but it's not for me. That said, only a presumptuous fool would believe there's nothing to be learned in how it managed to do what it did. I look to a lot of sources to figure out what they did right and what they did wrong, and what lessons can be learned from them. That's why I play many RPG's, as well.

much like Call of Duty FPS fans were never, ever, your audience when you made DA:O, not they will never, ever be, even if you lower the game standards with DA 2 to appeal to an audience that never cared for your games, nor the genre itself, and they never will

Well, with fans like these, who could ask for more, right?

You're making some assumptions that I'm not going to argue with. You're free to go ahead thinking them, if you like, I just prefer that people don't stick words in my mouth.

Modifié par David Gaider, 17 mars 2011 - 06:15 .

[Ellestor]

mordarwarlock wrote...

Which is what he's saying, you'll notice....

umm no, he literally said "it was well done--for what it was meant to be", sure, it was meant to please teenage girls, nothing wrong with it

then he comes with "it was interesting enough to merit examination"

what examination?, what can you possibly get out of examining such thing?, how to create cheesy romantic stories for teenage prepubescent girls?, it just doesn't make sense

if anything twilight stories need to be disregarded completely as a source of literature ideas......

That very post explicitly dispelled the notion that Twilight was a source of inspiration, and it just seems like you're willingly overlooking that in order to be offended that its existence was acknowledged.

[olalag]

I assume you get that neglect feeling coz what we were promessed by trailers and all that comercial bulll was rough brave bloody with true warriors and love till death and thak kind of tough street live kind of thing. but we got everything looking like a fairytale eccept maybey for the pools of blood. and dull bisexuals who would stab you in your back as soon as you turn around. my guess is that is why you feel that way.

[Dasher1010]

Let's think about how many gamers aren't straight men and how few games are actually marketed towards them.

[mordarwarlock]

You know what, mordar? You're right. What was David Gaider thinking? He's never written a good video game romance in his entire life. What the hell was he thinking reading stuff you don't like? That jerk.

I think it is more what the hell was he thinking relating such god-awful cheesey series to his great writting

it's like Usher a very well known "talented" music artist now supporting something like justin bieber.......

no...wait....

Who said it was? Did I?

The book set out to appeal to a
particular group. It did that well. I tried to get through it, mostly
out of curiosity's sake, but it's not for me. That said, only a
presumptuous fool would believe there's nothing to be learned in how it
managed to do what it did. I look to a lot of sources to figure out
what they did right and what they did wrong, and what lessons can be
learned from them. That's why I play many RPG's, as well.

what lesson could learn from anything twilight related?, just for curiosity sake

Well, with fans like these, who could ask for more, right? ../../../images/forum/emoticons/wink.png

this, I don't understand, are you refering to your main audience, or the FPS CoD audience?, or the twilight fans?

You're
making some assumptions that I'm not going to argue with. You're free
to go ahead thinking them, if you like, I just prefer that people don't
stick words in my mouth.

I'm just trying to know what you found so appealing about that book, again, nothing wrong here, not mad or anything, just wanting to know for curiosity's sake the input of a professional writter about....such series

Modifié par mordarwarlock, 17 mars 2011 - 06:27 .

[Ninja Mage]

Bastal wrote...

The Minority wrote...

Bastal wrote...

The Minority wrote...

Don't assume you speak for all straight men.

Because I fully disagree with you.

Never assumed I did. That would be extremely foolish. You clearly did not mind the homosexuality and found Isabella to your tastes. That's fine. I'm merely stating my opinion, that the Straight Male Gamer demographics, a huge group with a wide range of dislikes and likes, got a proportionality small amount of consideration. As it is, for many gamers like me, you might have just as well removed all romances in the game, and it would have been a better experience for me.

I'll admit not every man has the opinion.

But the fact that romances are there is bothering you? That I don't understand.

The homosexuality is bothering me. But what I'm more concerned about is that BioWare doesn't have its priorities straight. Make a great game with great gameplay first, and then focus on that other stuff. In Dragon Age 2's case, they didn't have time to do both, and now we have what we have.

The homosexual romances in the game have nothing to do with the quality of dungeons and towns in the game or the quality of combat and gameplay. The game just had a short development cycle so everything had to be minimalized. Don't say the game is worse because Anders can kiss you in the clinic. Come on dude

[Mox Ruuga]

I wouldn't say the straight male group has been ignored. Just look at Isabela and Merrill, who each fit a certain type of stereotypical "nerd dream girl".

I do agree that Bioware's pandering towards fangirls has reached a new height with DA2. Yes, fangirls, not LGBT folks, in actuality. The reason characters like Fenris exist, and Anders is now bisexual, is because straight women find guy on guy hot. Especially if the guys are the sort of androgynous animu characters like Fenris. Much of the fanfiction that is found online is proof of that.

Nothing wrong with that, unless a fangirl happens to think that she is some sort of social crusader for equality for liking to see or read about two pretty boys doing the beast with two backs, while the common fanboy is a dirty minded perv for liking lipstick lesbians. Unfortunately, this actually seems pretty common.

[Schneidend]

Look at David's response and promptly insert your foot into your mouth, please.

He's a professional writer, and is thus going to research what other professionals have done to achieve success. Twilight is ridiculously popular, so he plumbed the depths of those dark tomes in order to see if any powerful lore could be gleaned from them.

[Merci357]

I'm a straight male gamer - please don't pretend you speak for me. Thank you.

As always, romances could have been handled better (almost no delelopment past the cuddle scene), but I'm glad they put options into the game, including variety and including same sex relations.

[mordarwarlock]

Look at David's response and promptly insert your foot into your mouth, please.

nope, sorry, I tend to not follow trolls advice

He's a professional writer, and is thus going to research what other professionals have done to achieve success. Twilight is ridiculously popular, so he plumbed the depths of those dark tomes in order to see if any powerful lore could be gleaned from them.

so...what he came with was that twilight was needed for DA 2 writting succes?, again, like I said, it's like Major talented artist actually supporting someone like justing bieber....says a lot....

[Ninja Mage]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

I wouldn't say the straight male group has been ignored. Just look at Isabela and Merrill, who each fit a certain type of stereotypical "nerd dream girl".

I do agree that Bioware's pandering towards fangirls has reached a new height with DA2. Yes, fangirls, not LGBT folks, in actuality. The reason characters like Fenris exist, and Anders is now bisexual, is because straight women find guy on guy hot. Especially if the guys are the sort of androgynous animu characters like Fenris. Much of the fanfiction that is found online is proof of that.

Nothing wrong with that, unless a fangirl happens to think that she is some sort of social crusader for equality for liking to see or read about two pretty boys doing the beast with two backs, while the common fanboy is a dirty minded perv for liking lipstick lesbians. Unfortunately, this actually seems pretty common.

OH NOES, Anders is gay not for me, but so my neighbor Mary Jane can ****** off to it in her bedroom while she listens to Coldplay??? that is so insulting

[jds1bio]

It seems to me that with Dragon Age II they didn't want to create the Sims, where you could dress up your characters in anything you wanted, or make them hook up with whomever. I know people like costuming their characters like they are dolls, but in this game preserving their own identities through appearance was more important. Though coming from DA:O, scanning through a list of armor was a bit disappointing from time to time.

More importantly, though, anyone who has ever been screwed over by a family member, suffered a family loss, or had to make a decision regarding another family member's health will recognize that the writing and the treatment the characters are given is completely plausible, and just may hit home for some of you like it did for me.

And yet, there is room for these characters (and yes particularly the women) to be strong. I decided to start my first playthrough with a woman Hawke, just to be different this time. And with a party made up of mostly women who have lost greatly, but still find something to live for, the experience has been like no other in gaming so far.

Probably the closest second in expressing a family dynamic very well is AC II and Brotherhood. The women in AC II and Brotherhood are strong also. And for straight male gamer, this trend of strong women in computer games is not likely to go away anytime soon.

Modifié par jds1bio, 17 mars 2011 - 06:25 .

[Bastal]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Bastal wrote...

The Minority wrote...

Bastal wrote...

The Minority wrote...

Don't assume you speak for all straight men.

Because I fully disagree with you.

Never assumed I did. That would be extremely foolish. You clearly did not mind the homosexuality and found Isabella to your tastes. That's fine. I'm merely stating my opinion, that the Straight Male Gamer demographics, a huge group with a wide range of dislikes and likes, got a proportionality small amount of consideration. As it is, for many gamers like me, you might have just as well removed all romances in the game, and it would have been a better experience for me.

I'll admit not every man has the opinion.

But the fact that romances are there is bothering you? That I don't understand.

The homosexuality is bothering me. But what I'm more concerned about is that BioWare doesn't have its priorities straight. Make a great game with great gameplay first, and then focus on that other stuff. In Dragon Age 2's case, they didn't have time to do both, and now we have what we have.

The homosexual romances in the game have nothing to do with the quality of dungeons and towns in the game or the quality of combat and gameplay. The game just had a short development cycle so everything had to be minimalized. Don't say the game is worse because Anders can kiss you in the clinic. Come on dude

It worse for me anyways. But that's not what the point I'm trying to get across is. My main point is that quality of dungeons and towns (not the only issue) should have taken priority over making an Ander's gay romance because improving the quality dungeons and towns would have been improvement for everyone. Its been stressed enough that there weren't enough resources to make an ideal game for everyone. It just seems bad planning then, to focus so many resources and time that will be experienced by so few of the people who will be playing when there be huge problems that will experienced by all.

[Ellestor]

 Why the hell is the female Hawke given as much content as the male, anyway? Most gamers are male, after all. Proportionally, she should boast but a fraction of Garret's recorded dialogue, yes? Anything more is a disproportionate use of resources.

Thank you, thread. 

Modifié par Ellestor, 17 mars 2011 - 06:29 .

[SmokeyTheBear]

The designers decided to spend time upon an
element of the game that would be enjoyed by less than 1% of its players and
would make the experiences of a much greater portion of players worse.

enjoyed by less than 1% of its players and
would make the experiences of a much greater portion of players worse.

less than 1% of its players

1%



Hmmmm... 123% of interwebz statistics are made up on the spot.

I'm straight and male, and I LOVED this game. I liked Origins too, but this plays better on console, and just seemed like it had more to offer combat-wise on the console.

Doesn't mean I'm homosexual or bisexual. Just means I don't care because we all have minds and emotions.

[LTD]

Next time you are knee deep in writing plot/dialogue of a  fantasy RPG, please find works of  G.R.R Martin "interesting enough to merit exploration" , instead of Twilight and Anime. Thank you.

Modifié par LTD, 17 mars 2011 - 06:37 .