470 réponses à ce sujet

[Bastal]

Merci357 wrote...

I'm a straight male gamer - please don't pretend you speak for me. Thank you.

As always, romances could have been handled better (almost no delelopment past the cuddle scene), but I'm glad they put options into the game, including variety and including same sex relations.

Clearly you missed my point.

[Ninja Mage]

Lol this thread is going downhill quick...

[lastpawn]

Something like 1-2% of the general populace identify themselves as gay. The key here is "identify." Since we're citing that number it might be worth considering whether it would be substantially higher if we didn't have posts like the OP. Just a thought. And since we're on the subject of statistics, perhaps the number of people who are genuinely upset about this is less than 1% of DA2 players? In which case it would make sense given OPs reasoning, wouldn't it?

I did feel like it was a bit much to have everyone hit on me (male and female), though. I mean, I realize I'm hot and all, but... everyone--really? I'd also have preferred if there were a few well-done romances rather than the cliche ones that exist (dark broody guys with a soft heart/absurdly innocent girl/absurdly ****ty girl--come on!).

[Ninja Mage]

And most of the girls in the Fenris thread DIDN'T want him to be bi, so that argument goes right out the window

[Aviena]

I got halfway through the OP's post before I realised that it actually WASN'T meant to be ironic. You're really saying that the reason for DA2's mixed reception is because Bioware made romances available to a broader audience? That, in giving people who don't subscribe to your viewpoint more options, they "make the experiences of a much greater portion of players worse"? A couple of extra lines of dialogue, flirt options that you need to be ceritifably blind to miss, and the meta-knowledge that it is POSSIBLE for X character to be interested in the same sex. Wow.

I'm honestly pretty horrified by the some of the posts around these boards at the moment.

[philyburkhill]

I think it is hilarious that any writer of fiction thought Twilight did relationships correctly.

[Schneidend]

I killed things with a huge axe and found successively bigger and badder axes with which to kill yet more things with. I don't feel Dragon Age 2 has short-changed anybody, much less straight males.

philyburkhill wrote...

I think it is hilarious that any writer of fiction thought Twilight did relationships correctly.

He actually used the words "did that well" in regards to "appealing to a certain group."

Nowhere does Mr. Gaider state that Twilight did relationships "correctly."

Modifié par Schneidend, 17 mars 2011 - 06:35 .

[Bastal]

Okay, the statistic was not supposed to be exact. The point is with limited resources, priority should have been placed on more important aspects. Ideally, you'd have like a choice for everyone, but thats not practical.

[Bastal]

Aviena wrote...

I got halfway through the OP's post before I realised that it actually WASN'T meant to be ironic. You're really saying that the reason for DA2's mixed reception is because Bioware made romances available to a broader audience? That, in giving people who don't subscribe to your viewpoint more options, they "make the experiences of a much greater portion of players worse"? A couple of extra lines of dialogue, flirt options that you need to be ceritifably blind to miss, and the meta-knowledge that it is POSSIBLE for X character to be interested in the same sex. Wow.

I'm honestly pretty horrified by the some of the posts around these boards at the moment.

You know.... if it was really jsut that easy, you'd think they would have made EVERY companion romanceable wouldn't you? Because its just a few extra lines of dialogues and what not. 

[Merci357]

Bastal wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

I'm a straight male gamer - please don't pretend you speak for me. Thank you.

As always, romances could have been handled better (almost no delelopment past the cuddle scene), but I'm glad they put options into the game, including variety and including same sex relations.

Clearly you missed my point.

Then I'll write it again, I'm glad there are strong woman in the game, I'm glad there is a femal tank, I'm glad there are strong woman that hit on me in the game, I'm glad there are gay/bi-sexual men in the game, and I'm glad one of them even makes advancements on me. Better?

The game doesn't alienate me because of this - you don't speak for anyone here besides you. That's fine, but please don't pretend you do any more then this.

[Ellestor]

philyburkhill wrote...

I think it is hilarious that any writer of fiction thought Twilight did relationships correctly.

Which writer is that?

[Bastal]

Merci357 wrote...

Bastal wrote...

Merci357 wrote...

I'm a straight male gamer - please don't pretend you speak for me. Thank you.

As always, romances could have been handled better (almost no delelopment past the cuddle scene), but I'm glad they put options into the game, including variety and including same sex relations.

Clearly you missed my point.

Then I'll write it again, I'm glad there are strong woman in the game, I'm glad there is a femal tank, I'm glad there are strong woman that hit on me in the game, I'm glad there are gay/bi-sexual men in the game, and I'm glad one of them even makes advancements on me. Better?

The game doesn't alienate me because of this - you don't speak for anyone here besides you. That's fine, but please don't pretend you do any more then this.

I don't speak for you of course, but I know many people who share my opinion. And I speak for them and others. Don't try and dismiss it cause you don't agree.

[Ninja Mage]

Bastal wrote...

Okay, the statistic was not supposed to be exact. The point is with limited resources, priority should have been placed on more important aspects. Ideally, you'd have like a choice for everyone, but thats not practical.

Oh ok, so instead of having choices for everyone to enhance gameplay, you'd rather they cut out my romance, and just give you yours ( aka sexy chic with a heart of gold) How is that helping further gameplay?? You just made someone else angry over the very issue you're complaining about

[Deep_Sea_Diver]

Maria Caliban wrote...

If I were going to stereotype the straight, male gamer, I'd suggest that an exotic, lusty, and bisexual pirate gal built like a brick s**t house might appeal to them.

Not if she has syphilis and sleeps with anything that moves.

Modifié par Deep_Sea_Diver, 17 mars 2011 - 06:38 .

[Bastal]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Bastal wrote...

Okay, the statistic was not supposed to be exact. The point is with limited resources, priority should have been placed on more important aspects. Ideally, you'd have like a choice for everyone, but thats not practical.

Oh ok, so instead of having choices for everyone to enhance gameplay, you'd rather they cut out my romance, and just give you yours ( aka sexy chic with a heart of gold) How is that helping further gameplay?? You just made someone else angry over the very issue you're complaining about

No, I'd rather they spent more time on other aspects of the story, that would accessible by both you and me.

There wouldn't this arguement is Dragon Age 2 wasn't rushed. It clearly was.

Modifié par Bastal, 17 mars 2011 - 06:39 .

[kelsjet]

Its funny, coz I was just thinking the same thing as the OP.

In an effort to "cater to the gays" (term used non-offensively ofc), hetrosexual males seemed to have gotten the shaft.

Neither of the two hetero options (one? if you can even call Isabella an option) had any semblance of reality (though this could just be an artifact of the very poor character design). Neither were believable characters in the slightest.

Merril was way to one dimensional in her ditsyness. Now, I don't mind a little ditsy (after all, I loved Tali and Leliana quite a bit) but having "being ditsy and socially awkward" as the only quality in a character's personality just ends up making the character shallow, and not endearing, which is what, I believe they were going for with Merril (the girl next door).

Isabella's character was also a total joke, and as a poster has already said, she is a perfect example of a totally underdeveloped character. A cardboard cutout whose only justification for being on the screen is to cater to the barely pubescent, zit faced males who shouldn't even be playing a mature game in the first place.


The other aspect that irked me was how all sense of style, intrigue, subtlety and class (all of which are the hallmarks of a good literary romance) were pretty much thrown out the window with the new "conversation wheel" mechanics.
Romantic (or even non-romantic) conversations were so blatantly and non-contextually presented that it really was cringe-worthy.
Instead of having an interesting set of options or conversations that pleasently flow towards realization of romance, we instead got this with the conversation wheel:

.........."Lets pick flowers!"
.......__/
....../...\\_"Tee hee hee I'm so cheeky"
......\\__/
....../..\\
..Sex?...."GWAR RAGE!"

The "heart" options are presented so blatantly and without even a thought to context, they could pretty much have put in a button that says "Press here to sex this person" and it would surmise to the same end effect as far as character interaction goes. Irrespective of what you have been talking about beforehand, you suddenly see a "heart" option and you pick it and sex that person.

So cheesy, so sad.

Such fail.


N.B. To the trigger happy Bioware mods. You should really take a step back from your nerdraging about people not liking your game. The fact that people are still posting on your forums is a testament of the name you have built. You should be eternally grateful that your fanbase is taking the time to tell you why your product failed, giving you the benefit of the doubt that you will fix it.

I know many a game companies who would cherish such criticism and not start bashing the people who are helping you realize your mistakes.

Modifié par kelsjet, 17 mars 2011 - 06:40 .

[Schneidend]

Deep_Sea_Diver wrote...
Not if she has syphilis and sleeps with anything that moves.

Ah, right. Sexually active, ambitious, strong women are all ****s. Forgot.

[Mox Ruuga]

Ninja Mage wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

I wouldn't say the straight male group has been ignored. Just look at Isabela and Merrill, who each fit a certain type of stereotypical "nerd dream girl".

I do agree that Bioware's pandering towards fangirls has reached a new height with DA2. Yes, fangirls, not LGBT folks, in actuality. The reason characters like Fenris exist, and Anders is now bisexual, is because straight women find guy on guy hot. Especially if the guys are the sort of androgynous animu characters like Fenris. Much of the fanfiction that is found online is proof of that.

Nothing wrong with that, unless a fangirl happens to think that she is some sort of social crusader for equality for liking to see or read about two pretty boys doing the beast with two backs, while the common fanboy is a dirty minded perv for liking lipstick lesbians. Unfortunately, this actually seems pretty common.

OH NOES, Anders is gay not for me, but so my neighbor Mary Jane can ****** off to it in her bedroom while she listens to Coldplay??? that is so insulting

Sarcasm?

I don't doubt Bioware is happy that actual LGBT people now have romantic interests in the game that actually reflect their orientation and make them happy. A bonus on the side. But I'm also pretty damn sure that were straight fangirls not so interested in guy-on-guy, we would simply have girl bisexuals in the game. And those, like Liara in Mass Effect, have always been derided by fangirls as simply "pandering to the fanboys". True, as a matter of fact, but the same thing fits with characters like Anders and (especially) Fenris.

Of course, now it's Bioware being bold and socially progressive, instead of pandering to the fanfiction.net writers and deviantart.com artists...  

[Aviena]

Bastal wrote...

Aviena wrote...*snip*

You know.... if it was really jsut that easy, you'd think they would have made EVERY companion romanceable wouldn't you? Because its just a few extra lines of dialogues and what not. 

Actually, no. Adding additional romances would require actually WRITING another romance, additional cutscenes, probably the addition of one of those snazzy new armor models, etc. The difference between "you're a beautiful woman, Hawke" and (I haven't actually played a male character yet, but for the sake of argument) "you're a pretty sexy dude, Hawke" is not significant - and it CERTAINLY does not draw resources away from other aspects of the game. Unless the combat and level designers are sitting in the recording study supervising the voice actors, now.

[Deep_Sea_Diver]

Schneidend wrote...

Deep_Sea_Diver wrote...
Not if she has syphilis and sleeps with anything that moves.

Ah, right. Sexually active, ambitious, strong women are all ****s. Forgot.

Um the game confirms that she has STDs and her annoying sex jokes are not attractive.

Modifié par Deep_Sea_Diver, 17 mars 2011 - 06:43 .

[Bastal]

Aviena wrote...

Bastal wrote...

Aviena wrote...*snip*

You know.... if it was really jsut that easy, you'd think they would have made EVERY companion romanceable wouldn't you? Because its just a few extra lines of dialogues and what not. 

Actually, no. Adding additional romances would require actually WRITING another romance, additional cutscenes, probably the addition of one of those snazzy new armor models, etc. The difference between "you're a beautiful woman, Hawke" and (I haven't actually played a male character yet, but for the sake of argument) "you're a pretty sexy dude, Hawke" is not significant - and it CERTAINLY does not draw resources away from other aspects of the game. Unless the combat and level designers are sitting in the recording study supervising the voice actors, now.

I recommend playing male Hawke and then come back.

[Merci357]

I don't dismiss your points - since they are perfectly fine and valid, if you genuinely feel that way.

Like others in this thread, I just wanted to post a different point of view about your concerns. It would help your cause, if these people that share them could voice them, as well.

[SmokeyTheBear]

Hmmm....

I like where this thread is going.

[SavageNoble]

So homosexuality is the ruin of the game? Well then, turns out all the modding community has to do is filter out a few lines of dialogue and DA II is suddenly the gem its predecessor was.

But seriously, of all the problems DA II does have, bisexual characters isn't one of them. I found the lack of an interesting romancable character to be far more of an issue than the lack a character who fits my tastes physically.

[Ninja Mage]

You guys want virginal chick? romance Merrill, her 17 year old body is sure to please you complainers