470 réponses à ce sujet

[Aviena]

Bastal wrote...
I recommend playing male Hawke and then come back.

I recommend making an argument that doesn't come across as ill-concieved and bigoted.

[Schneidend]

Deep_Sea_Diver wrote...

Um the game confirms that she has STDs and her annoying sex jokes are not attractive.

I remain highly dubious without "teh sauce."

[The Minority]

Aviena wrote...

Bastal wrote...
I recommend playing male Hawke and then come back.

I recommend making an argument that doesn't come across as ill-concieved and bigoted.

True.

I'm honestly enjoying my FemHawke playthrough way more than my BroHawke.

[Ninja Mage]

SavageNoble wrote...

So homosexuality is the ruin of the game? Well then, turns out all the modding community has to do is filter out a few lines of dialogue and DA II is suddenly the gem its predecessor was.

.

 Exactly. Making a clone of bethany and adding her as a romance, and cutting Anders and Fenris from the game would have ZERO impact on the rest of the product.

[Kilshrek]

Given that you dedicated two whole paragraphs to discuss the sexual orientation of characters and touched very little on the meat and potatoes of the game, as it were, can I safely assume that you're not playing the game for the sake of the game?

Romances are getting way too much attention when other shortcomings of the game are more glaringly obvious. Besides these are optional elements, you have plenty of options to redeem a bromance with either Anders or Fenris, though I can't see why one would really bother. Two angry, bitter souls is the last thing my Hawke needs after losing so much throughout the decade.

Anyway, the writing has little to do with the other technical aspects of the game, why does it deserve such a long rant? The writers have their vision, give the rest of the dev team that vision and then it goes from there. Or so I would think that's the flow of work. I'm an average joe gamer myself, and I am your polar opposite, OP. With the exception of your opening volley(first paragraph), which is the only thing I can agree with.

[Deep_Sea_Diver]

Schneidend wrote...

Deep_Sea_Diver wrote...

Um the game confirms that she has STDs and her annoying sex jokes are not attractive.

I remain highly dubious without "teh sauce."

Spoilers: 

[Maria Caliban]

I don't like Twilight. I dislike romance novels in general.

However, I can't help but feel people are being a bit thick-headed here. David did not say that Twilight was a good book. However, you can learn as much from a bad work as you can from a good one.

He said it did some things well. And it does! It takes some romantic tropes that have become unpopular and made them appeal to young girls.

Sure, he could watch Gone with the Wind and say "What makes the romance in this movie click for some people?" but it's an excellent film. People respond to the story, the locations, the actors, the sets, the time frame, and the way it reflects a specific romantic, Southern ideal. The romance has the entire movie supporting it.

If you look at Twilight and ask "What makes this romance popular?" you end up with a very short list.

And I think we need to be realistic as to what David, as a writer, can do in a game. A single BioWare romance is a short story at best. He cannot give you 500 pages of character exploration and depth. He doesn't direct the voice actor, decide on the character designs, or touch the cinematics and gameplay.

He needs to make the characters and their relationship work, and compared to other media, he has a brief window of opportunity to do so.

[wowpwnslol]

Maria Caliban wrote...

If I were going to stereotype the straight, male gamer, I'd suggest that an exotic, lusty, and bisexual pirate gal built like a brick s**t house might appeal to them.

And you'd be wrong. A perfect romance for male straight gamer was Aerie from Baldur's Gate 2. It was great. Unfortunately since then, Bioware has failed with romances and failed badly. Might as well not include romances at all in the next DA game.

[sgreco1970]

Is this another "Im straight and male and probably white and I vehemently complain when I get to feel for one day the way I make minorites feel every day" post?

I'm crying you a river.

BTW if the drop dead gorgeous pirate girl who only thinks about sex and is falling out of her blouse and will instantly romance you without so much as a long chat doesn't satisfy your all important straight male needs, may i suggest that your corner market sells Playboy and kleenex rather cheaply.

[wowpwnslol]

BTW if the drop dead gorgeous pirate girl who only thinks about sex and is falling out of her blouse and will instantly romance you without so much as a long chat doesn't satisfy your all important straight male needs, may i suggest that your corner market sells Playboy and kleenex rather cheaply.

Not everyone who plays this game is a 15 year old whose parents banned him from porn, so he has to get his fix from a video game.

[lostspline]

Bastal wrote...
I have hard time sympathizing with the excuse that you didn’t have enough resources to make new
environments or give us the ability to make choices that actually matter in the
story (like maybe side with the Qunari), a feature that would have been enjoyed
by everyone, yet had enough time to write gay love. .

A lot of their resources are not fungible.  Should the writers have shifted from writing "gay love" to designing environments?  This argument makes no sense unless you can pinpoint what resources could be realistically reallocated.

DA2 has a lot of problems (in my opinion) but they would not be automagically solved by removing the "gay".

[Icy Magebane]

sgreco1970 wrote...

Is this another "Im straight and male and probably white and I vehemently complain when I get to feel for one day the way I make minorites feel every day" post?

I'm crying you a river.

BTW if the drop dead gorgeous pirate girl who only thinks about sex and is falling out of her blouse and will instantly romance you without so much as a long chat doesn't satisfy your all important straight male needs, may i suggest that your corner market sells Playboy and kleenex rather cheaply.

Come on now... Isabela was a waste of a party member.  I can't imagine having one iota of interest in a woman who gives it away so freely.  How about you use an example of an human LI who isn't completely shallow?  Oh wait, there aren't any... except for men.  Yes, Anders had his problems, but at least he didn't sleep around whenever he felt like it.  I'm not saying I agree or disagree with what's going on in this thread, but Isabela was a schoolboy fantasy at best.

And yes, I know this is just a game... we all know that, but we're talking about romances, so hey, why not just get past the "they're just pixels" stuff and let's all stay on the same page. (directed at those who ineveitably bring that up)

Also, your comments make straight males seem shallow, and I find that offensive.  Many straight males want more than just sex from women... and don't even bother mentiong Merrill because she is not human.  At least the old elven design looked normal for the most part.  Elves remind me of deer now.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 17 mars 2011 - 07:09 .

[Ninja Mage]

Ellestor wrote...

 Why the hell is the female Hawke given as much content as the male, anyway? Most gamers are male, after all. Proportionally, she should boast but a fraction of Garret's recorded dialogue, yes? Anything more is a disproportionate use of resources.

Thank you, thread. 

And women are allowed to have jobs that aren't in the kitchen! Blasphemy!

[Mox Ruuga]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

If I were going to stereotype the straight, male gamer, I'd suggest that an exotic, lusty, and bisexual pirate gal built like a brick s**t house might appeal to them.

And you'd be wrong. A perfect romance for male straight gamer was Aerie from Baldur's Gate 2. It was great. Unfortunately since then, Bioware has failed with romances and failed badly. Might as well not include romances at all in the next DA game.

Lol, no.

Aerie and Anomen were both earnest but fumbly first steps by Bioware. Or second, if you want to count that werewolf in the Baldur's Gate expansion as a romance.

Viconia and Jaheira were IMO the compelling romances from BG2. In fact, I think the blowback from "Annoyman" caused Bioware to start devoting more attention to its female gamer fanbase.

[Ninja Mage]

Icy Magebane wrote...

sgreco1970 wrote...

Is this another "Im straight and male and probably white and I vehemently complain when I get to feel for one day the way I make minorites feel every day" post?

I'm crying you a river.

BTW if the drop dead gorgeous pirate girl who only thinks about sex and is falling out of her blouse and will instantly romance you without so much as a long chat doesn't satisfy your all important straight male needs, may i suggest that your corner market sells Playboy and kleenex rather cheaply.

Come on now... Isabela was a waste of a party member.  I can't imagine having one iota of interest in a woman who gives it away so freely.  How about you use an example of an human LI who isn't completely shallow?  Oh wait, there aren't any... except for men.  Yes, Anders had his problems, but at least he didn't sleep around whenever he felt like it.  I'm not saying I agree or disagree with what's going on in this thread, but Isabela was a schoolboy fantasy at best.

And yes, I know this is just a game... we all know that, but we're talking about romances, so hey, why not just get past the "they're just pixels" stuff and let's all stay on the same page. (directed at those who ineveitably bring that up)

Also, your comments make straight males seem shallow, and I find that offensive.  Many straight males want more than just sex from women... and don't even bother mentiong Merrill because she is not human.  At least the old elven design looked normal for the most part.  Elves remind me of deer now.

Well what you guys are typing is extremely shallow. The same arguments you're using now I used when trying to get a love interest for mass effect. Guess what someone told me?? That Shepard isn't gay. Oh ok. So I guess Hawke isn't straight and you're out of luck. But this isn't the case. Atleast you have options too in this game.

[Mox Ruuga]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Also, your comments make straight males seem shallow, and I find that offensive.  Many straight males want more than just sex from women... and don't even bother mentiong Merrill because she is not human.  At least the old elven design looked normal for the most part.  Elves remind me of deer now.

Shhh... You're not allowed to be offended, you-- you straight white man full of privilege, you!


Now take your big breasted bimbo and shut up, while more progressive elements are talking!

[Schneidend]

Deep_Sea_Diver wrote...

Spoilers: 

Because that couldn't at all be a tongue-in-cheek joke on the part of the devs/writers, given there's never any clear statement declaring these are STDs to which they're referring. You've made an inference you were meant to infer, because the devs wrote it that way, and that's all.

[johook213]

Aerie and Anomen were highly annoying to me. Personally I found the Jaheira romance to be one of the best romances i've encountered in a game. And i'm a gay male!!! lol

[Deep_Sea_Diver]

Schneidend wrote...

Deep_Sea_Diver wrote...

Spoilers: 

Because that couldn't at all be a tongue-in-cheek joke on the part of the devs/writers, given there's never any clear statement declaring these are STDs to which they're referring. You've made an inference you were meant to infer, because the devs wrote it that way, and that's all.

The nile is not just a river in egypt you know.

[rojoskies]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

I am a cold barbaric homophobial vodka-drinking all-women-must-wear-skirts-and-ribbons gamer, but, actually, with so many design flaws like monotonous combat and recycled locations, I forget about the "fanservice heart-button" pretty fast and it was't that of the issue. Still, Anders dissapointed me. I remembered him as a "a pretty girl and a good drink" guy, not a bi-antichantry-terrorist abomination with ecstatic to stupidity idea of justice.

you know what, i was dissapointed with anders role also, i loved hsi comical views and sir pounce alot. I always figured him sort of a free spirit pretty boy girl chaser and bioware kinda killed his role in the story for me here. they could have invented some one else. as for the gay stuff, not a problem with zevran, i liked his character man, very funnny guy, kudos on the origins kameos with allistair and the gang. Hopefully on your dlc you can redeem the story a bit and give us some kunari action.

[wowpwnslol]

johook213 wrote...

Aerie and Anomen were highly annoying to me. Personally I found the Jaheira romance to be one of the best romances i've encountered in a game. And i'm a gay male!!! lol

Jaheira's romance sucked. She is way too independent for my taste. Not to mention a druid... which makes her even worse. Just read the epilogue after Throne of Bhaal how it all turned out. She apparently leaves you for months at a time.. WTF?

[mmmmmmPie]

David Gaider wrote...

Well, with fans like these, who could ask for more, right?

You're making some assumptions that I'm not going to argue with. You're free to go ahead thinking them, if you like, I just prefer that people don't stick words in my mouth.

And I prefer that Bioware doesn't stick pre-beta level games in a box and sell it as a finished product.

[Ninja Mage]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

Also, your comments make straight males seem shallow, and I find that offensive.  Many straight males want more than just sex from women... and don't even bother mentiong Merrill because she is not human.  At least the old elven design looked normal for the most part.  Elves remind me of deer now.

Shhh... You're not allowed to be offended, you-- you straight white man full of privilege, you!


Now take your big breasted bimbo and shut up, while more progressive elements are talking!

If you guys are offended that Anders or Fenris may flirt with you, you should get more secure in your sexuality. That's why it's called a dialogue choice. Just because it is present doesn't mean you have to click it.

[Schneidend]

Deep_Sea_Diver wrote...

The nile is not just a river in egypt you know.

You're essentially suggesting then, that if somebody were to run around declaring that others were being "obtuse," that the only conclusion one could draw was that he was referring to them as a variety of geometric angle.

Regardless. Even if she is contracting diseases, and Anders is curing her of them, then where precisely does the issue lie? If you romance her, she becomes monogamous for Hawke (Hawkogamous), and is thereafter free of diseases...unless Hawke has them. Entirely possible, given that Thedas is a few centuries off from developing latex condoms.

wowpwnslol wrote...

Jaheira's romance sucked. She is way too independent for my taste. Not to mention a druid... which makes her
even worse. Just read the epilogue after Throne of Bhaal how it all turned out. She apparently leaves you for months at a time.. WTF?

That witch. How dare she have a job protecting the natural order of things and helping prevent organizations like the Zents from taking over civilization. She should be doing your laundry and making you sandwiches!

Modifié par Schneidend, 17 mars 2011 - 07:38 .

[wildfly]

DamnThoseDisplayNames wrote...

... Still, Anders dissapointed me. I remembered him as a "a pretty girl and a good drink" guy, not a bi-antichantry-terrorist abomination with ecstatic to stupidity idea of justice.

yep, i tried that romance and all along i felt i wasn't talking to anders but justice, who was taking the the good intentions to hell path to avenge his lost BF and all the mages. fenris is even worse, take away his emoness and all that left is a lyrium puddle on the floor. In desperation i turned to the female LI's (remembering i liked Liara's romance) and that was only worse. i don't like phedofilia so i tried our pirate, reminding myself she has only a virtual STD but the romance was shallow and a very 'open' one. i am not really into treesome, am ashamed to admit.

saying all that, if you leave out the romances the game is great. i liked it a lot and consider it a development over DAO which also was very good. if only i didn't felt i was in gay paradise...

wowpwnslol wrote...

Jaheira's romance sucked. She is way too independent for my taste. Not to mention a druid... which makes her
even
worse. Just read the epilogue after Throne of Bhaal how it all turned
out. She apparently leaves you for months at a time.. WTF?

and also can shapeshift into a bear at any moment. frightening image, not for the weak-hearted ;D
but what about aerie? you must have liked her. if i ever seen a submissive woman, that's she.

Modifié par wildfly, 17 mars 2011 - 07:47 .