470 réponses à ce sujet

[Bryy_Miller]

mordarwarlock wrote...

Look at David's response and promptly insert your foot into your mouth, please.

nope, sorry, I tend to not follow trolls advice

He's a professional writer, and is thus going to research what other professionals have done to achieve success. Twilight is ridiculously popular, so he plumbed the depths of those dark tomes in order to see if any powerful lore could be gleaned from them.

so...what he came with was that twilight was needed for DA 2 writting succes?, again, like I said, it's like Major talented artist actually supporting someone like justing bieber....says a lot....

Writers and other artists support each other and what they do. It has nothing to do with subject matter or who they are. If someone has found a way to make money at something, good for them. 

You seem to be hung up on the idea that Twilight and Justin Beiber are "corrupting" the things you like (i.e. Gaider's writing, Major Artists), when the fact of the matter is that people in an industry understand one another. Do I read Twilight? No. But as a writer, I understand perfectly why it appeals to people. Do I think Justin Beiber is a good artist? No. But I don't condone people throwing water bottles at his head on stage.

[Mox Ruuga]

Ninja Mage wrote...

If you guys are offended that Anders or Fenris may flirt with you, you should get more secure in your sexuality. That's why it's called a dialogue choice. Just because it is present doesn't mean you have to click it.

Tsk tsk, "you guys"?

Haven't said I personally was offended. In fact, I've indicated I have no problem with gay and/or bi romances.

The only thing I've really done in this thread has been to comment on what I think were Bioware's motivations in including LGBT content in the first place, and the double standards some fans take with it.

[Myusha]

He did not use Twilight to base his romances. He merely found it interesting.

Plus Twilight is popular, and just because something is popular, doesn't give one the right to dislike without giving it a chance. I mean I don't like Justin Bieber's songs, but I'm not making youtube comments on how he needs to DIE.

Also making all the romances available to everyone was a smart move, since it meant it applied to everyone. No one asks you to hook up with Anders or Fenris, or be lesbian buddies with Isabela or Merrill.

Also it's Dragon Age. You're gonna have bisexual romances. Whether you choose to chase after them however...

[Ellestor]

 

wildfly wrote...
i don't like phedofilia so i tried our pirate

I can never quite tell whether people are being serious about this with regards to Merrill or not, and if so, what leads them to see her as so young. It has to be one of the strangest notions I've seen making rounds through the community....

[Stevie Gerrard]

I’m a straight man and I loved the way romance was handled in this game. I did felt a little bit annoyed by the homosexual innuendo in some part of the game as it felt you couldn’t have a real friendship with those characters without being rude at some point, a polite decline would have being a welcome addition. I think there is a lot about romance that you can learn watching the twilight movies, a book don’t become a bestseller without touching some truth in human nature one way or the other. In twilight case I think the whole sexual tension between the protagonist and the implied social status of each one of them is well done even thought it ultimately converts into a spoiled teenage girl fantasy (as it was the author intent all along I presume).
Since when being knowledgeable about a subject is wrong? Mr Gainer is a writer and is damn good at what he does. Learning from other authors just enhances his work and I for one commend his research.

[pezit]

Having one homosexual character in a game every now and then would be fine, but it is extremely silly to have multiple bi-sexual people in your small group of people in the game. It's just another case of a company trying to appeal to everyone instead of doing their own thing. Soon every party will be an even mix of asians, blacks, whites, women, homosexuals and transexuals because we don't want anyone to feel left out right?

Modifié par pezit, 17 mars 2011 - 07:58 .

[wildfly]

Ellestor wrote...

 

wildfly wrote...
i don't like phedofilia so i tried our pirate

I can never quite tell whether people are being serious about this with regards to Merrill or not, and if so, what leads them to see her as so young. It has to be one of the strangest notions I've seen making rounds through the community....

it's my personal impression. honestly, when i'd first seen her (on youtube) i thought she was about 15 and thought 'what's that elf kid does here?' and when in my group i always try to protect her from damage. not because she's a mage, but because she resembles a kid. same when talking to her. and i am not the only one she'd awakened motherly instincts. look at her keeper. she also did all to protect her.

[Lord Sullivan]

sreaction wrote...

Millions of people
bought and loved Dragon Age. The number of posts in the thread clamouring for
more homosexuality doesn’t even reach 1% of that number"

Millions of people "Bought" the game, not to confuse with how many people enjoyed it and/or loved it which you and no one else for that matter can come up with solid proof. 

So my take is that 1% loved dragon age and 99% either hated it OR were neutral/indifferent OR liked it a bit but not enough. 

Modifié par Lord Sullivan, 17 mars 2011 - 08:00 .

[ji.Ruichi]

pezit wrote...

Having one homosexual character in a game every now and then would be fine, but it is extremely silly to have multiple bi-sexual people in your small group of people in the game. It's just another case of a company trying to appeal to everyone instead of doing their own thing. Soon every party will be an even mix of asians, blacks, whites, women, homosexuals and transexuals because we don't want anyone to feel left out right?

You left out cross-dressers. Shame on  you!

[Dr. Impossible]

Bastal wrote...

They neglected the straight male audience, the average gamer, opting to make design choices that would appeal to only small groups of people.

Which is all fine and well in principle (e.g. flight simulators only appeal to small groups of people), but it's pretty unlikely gays and women are a big enough demographic to cover the development costs of these very expensive dating sims. BioWare is still able to pretend they're making RPGs or action games or whatever, but that's not going to work indefinitely. I guess all this extreme dumbing down is a way of compensating for the effects of abandonding the heterosexual male demographic.

BioWare has gone from good Dungeons & Dragons CRPGs to awful dating sims for gays and women. I wonder what caused this change?

sgreco1970 wrote...

Is this another "Im straight and male and probably white and I vehemently complain when I get to feel for one day the way I make minorites feel every day" post?

I'm crying you a river.

What is anyone supposed to do about minorities being minorities? It's not the white man's fault.

Myusha wrote...

Plus Twilight is popular, and just because
something is popular, doesn't give one the right to dislike without
giving it a chance.

No, I am pretty sure that actually is a right in a free society.

[Merci357]

pezit wrote...

Having one homosexual character in a game every now and then would be fine, but it is extremely silly to have multiple bi-sexual people in your small group of people in the game. It's just another case of a company trying to appeal to everyone instead of doing their own thing. Soon every party will be an even mix of asians, blacks, whites, women, homosexuals and transexuals because we don't want anyone to feel left out right?

So in short, political correctness has it's place, if used sparingly?

[Carfax]

There is a disturbing trend emerging in Bioware games, that wasn't there before....the excessive inclusion of alternate sexuality.

Now that Bioware has embraced the gay movement, they are practically obligated to include gay/bi characters in EVERY game they make for fear of angering the gays.

There is obviously a quota, yet Bioware denies that they are engaging in political correctness..

DA2 is the most recent example of this, and if you look at how much more gay content DA2 has compared to previous games, the trend is undeniable.  DA2 has significantly more homosexuality in the game than DAO, Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. 

I don't know what game Bioware is playing by doing this, but pandering to gays certainly won't score them the big sales they covet.  I just hope the Mass Effect series doesn't become similarly infected with excessive occurrences of homosexuality.
The thought of Shepard ever being gay is absurd, as everyone knows that gays cannot be heroes..

Modifié par Carfax, 17 mars 2011 - 08:08 .

[pezit]

Merci357 wrote...

pezit wrote...

Having one homosexual character in a game every now and then would be fine, but it is extremely silly to have multiple bi-sexual people in your small group of people in the game. It's just another case of a company trying to appeal to everyone instead of doing their own thing. Soon every party will be an even mix of asians, blacks, whites, women, homosexuals and transexuals because we don't want anyone to feel left out right?

So in short, political correctness has it's place, if used sparingly?

Political correctness should not be forced. If the writer writes a gay character i won't mind at all, but when they're thrown in for no reason other than to please minorities or majorities i do mind.

[wildfly]

Merci357 wrote...

pezit wrote...

Having one homosexual character in a game every now and then would be fine, but it is extremely silly to have multiple bi-sexual people in your small group of people in the game. It's just another case of a company trying to appeal to everyone instead of doing their own thing. Soon every party will be an even mix of asians, blacks, whites, women, homosexuals and transexuals because we don't want anyone to feel left out right?

So in short, political correctness has it's place, if used sparingly?

i therby proudly declare myself to belong to a straight minority. uhh. now i am a minority, so i have rights, yes?
then i ask one, tiny straight (not chaste) romance in the next game for a female. please?

[Carfax]

pezit wrote...

Political correctness should not be forced. If the writer writes a gay character i won't mind at all, but when they're thrown in for no reason other than to please minorities or majorities i do mind.

Exactly..  There is now a gay quota that must be met for EVERY game that Bioware makes....which is ridiculous.

[Ray Joel Oh]

Carfax wrote...

DUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRP

[lostspline]

Dr. Impossible wrote...

Which is all fine and well in principle (e.g. flight simulators only appeal to small groups of people), but it's pretty unlikely gays and women are a big enough demographic to cover the development costs of these very expensive dating sims. BioWare is still able to pretend they're making RPGs or action games or whatever, but that's not going to work indefinitely. I guess all this extreme dumbing down is a way of compensating for the effects of abandonding the heterosexual male demographic.

Not to be rude, but did you even play the game?  The "dating" is such a tiny part of the game that I can't see how you can view it as a "dating sim".  You can play the game for 30 hours without "dating" at all. 

Also, abandoning the "heterosexual male demographic"?  The game does abandon a lot of "heterosexual male" privilege but that demographic is still served well with Isabella and Merrill. 

[Fidget6]

 Oh, God forbid the same, cliche content that I have to sit through game after game is threatened! The big bouncing breasts in skimpy outfits and the heaps of gore around every corner. But wait.... DA2 STILL has those things, so how exactly is the straight male gamer being alienated? Are you really that uncomfortable in your own sexuality that even having guys around you that are open to being with another guy will break a whole game for you? I didn't see people whining about all the lesbians in Mass Effect!

[Carfax]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

I'm a coward that can't formulate mature responses.

If you are too much of a coward to argue with me, or reply with a mature response, then by all means, place me on ignore if you don't like what I have to say.

[Upset Goldfish]

David Gaider wrote...

Bastal wrote...
From comments like David Gaiders declaring that he used Twilight as in inspiration for Dragon Age 2 romance

I'll just point out that I did no such thing.

Twilight came up in conversation and I said that the romance in Twilight was well done-- for what it was meant to be-- and was interesting enough to merit examination. That's all.

There's a lot of assumptions in there, not least of which is a certain amount of privilege (not to mention an assumption that all straight male gamers must like the same thing), but I'll leave that to be discussed by everyone else.

Not to be rude, but I do have to disagree with the statement that Twilight does romance right. To me, it seemed that the romance in the Twilight series is essentially based around the shallow desires of the moody misfit teenager that is, in essence, designed to be a cast into which all teen girls can fit. That seems to be why the books are so successful. 

The main romantic interest are a silent yet incredibly handsome vampire with a mysterious edge. Bella constantly goes around stating that her breath freezes when she sees him, she goes silent, she has to avert her eyes etc when she sees him looking. This is just more shallow "romance" that never gets to the core of any form of relationship. Perhaps it gets deeper into the romance later, but when Bella is so suddenly swept into Edward so utterly and completely, it just seems like she's fallen to more material desires than anything substantial.

The same deal is with the werewolves. Just "handsome guys with mysterious sides". 

I notice you said that the romance was well done for what it was meant to be, which I guess in essense is true. I'm honestly not meaning to criticise or be rude, your work is very, very good, but I'm sure there are better examples of romance to highlight than Twilight.

ALTHOUGH you've made me EXCEPTIONALLY happy by stating that you have never used Twilight as a reference or inspiration for your romance writing. Please, please, PLEASE keep it so. 

Also I was very happy to see a fantasy plot in which "A GIANT, LOOMING EVIL" was not present.

[AmstradHero]

Just to throw another viewpoint on the fire, I'm a straight male gamer... My first playthrough (which I'll likely treat as my personal "canon") was as a female Hawke who romanced Anders after having a fling with Isabela. Not to mention that the character I decided to roleplay was completely different to my own personality.

In short, the OP makes a few (likely erroneous) assumptions:
Firstly, that the vast majority of people who play DA2 are straight males. This is possible, though I'd potentially argue they might be merely be the largest single group if you consider gender and sexual preference of the entire player base. Without hard data, it can neither be proven nor disproven.

Secondly, it's also operating on the assumption that all of those people belonging to that group will only play a character that matches their personality and sexual preferences.  I'm one exception to that, and I'm certain there are many more.

Thirdly, it seems to be insinuating that if characters act in a certain way, that will impinge on their personality - effectively: "Oh no, a bi-sexual man hit on me, I might catch homosexuality". Enough said.

If you consider removing the people from the player base of DA2 who don't fit those assumptions... suddenly the "vast majority" claim doesn't really seem that accurate anymore. I've steered clear of "professional reviews" of the game because I've seen them make inaccurate and terrible judgements on countless games. I played it myself and made my own review of the game.

The game has issues, and while the fact that all the love interests are bisexual is potentially a slightly curious writing decision, I don't see that it's negatively affecting the "vast majority of  the game's core audience"... and you can always just not pick that "heart" option. Anyone who claims they didn't know what they were "getting into" (yes, Angry Joe review, I'm looking at you), are too lacking in intellect to tell that from their own intuition AND too impatient to read the manual clearly explaining the purpose of the heart icon.  Either way, the validity of their arguments are sorely lacking. If a reviewer can't even be bothered to read the game's manual, then I'm not going to bother giving their so-called "professional opinion" any respect.

[lostspline]

Carfax wrote...

Now that Bioware has embraced the gay movement, they are practically obligated to include gay/bi characters in EVERY game they make for fear of angering the gays.

Bioware are not embracing any "gay movement" as far as I can tell.  They are producing a product for their customers.  Some of their customers want to have gay characters so they decided to offer the choice.  If they decide it's not worth it, then they won't do it anymore.

You really think they fear a backlash of "1% of its players"?

Carfax wrote...
The thought of Shepard ever being gay is absurd, as everyone knows that gays cannot be heroes..

Nevermind, I didn't realize that you're just a troll.  I should have figured it out from the Krogan.

[Ray Joel Oh]

Carfax wrote...

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

I'm a coward that can't formulate mature responses.

If you are too much of a coward to argue with me, or reply with a mature response, then by all means, place me on ignore if you don't like what I have to say.

But mocking you is so much more to the point.  I know it sucks way hard that small handful of companies out of the entirity of the gaming community look to markets other than just your own straight white male demographic, and that's, like, an infection!  But as a member of one of the minority communities Bioware has invited to game, I ~sincerely~ regret to inform you we're here to stay.  Deal with it.  

Edit: and to add, I've got nothing against straight white male gamers.  Most of my friends are such!  I just enjoy a chuckle at the expense at the few who get so flustered to see their clubhouse invaded.

Edit edit: And furthermore, Carfax should google "Alexander the Great."  A gay man so heroic, he is forever remembered as "The Great!"  Carfax would be lucky to have his waistline remembered thusly.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 17 mars 2011 - 08:38 .

[K12aze]

I'm at a loss here.....are people that insecure with thier own sexuality that a video game char makeing a pass at them ( that can be deflected and not brought up again ) totally ruins the game for them? If that's the case you may want to do some self reflection. Additionally as someone who hates Twillight with the very core of there being only a complete fool can ignore the things done well. It defined a target audience and created a product that has proven popular and profitable. Did some fans want the romance to play differently sure....did they jump on the Internet and complain when things didn't happen the way they wanted?.....hmmm maybe twilight fans are not that different after all