470 réponses à ce sujet

[AmstradHero]

wowpwnslol wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

If I were going to stereotype the straight, male gamer, I'd suggest that an exotic, lusty, and bisexual pirate gal built like a brick s**t house might appeal to them.

And you'd be wrong. A perfect romance for male straight gamer was Aerie from Baldur's Gate 2. It was great. Unfortunately since then, Bioware has failed with romances and failed badly. Might as well not include romances at all in the next DA game.

I tolerated the romance with Aerie, but she was infinitely less interesting than Jaheira. Even though I didn't like Viconia's character for her evil behaviour, her romance was still more appealing to me than Aerie's. I found her insipid and pathetic, completely incapable of doing anything without your constant encouragement and the desire to fill the "protective male" role in her life and take care of her.

Judging a romance as "good" or "bad" is something that revolves more around personal preference than any other aspect of game design in pretty much any genre. To hold up one romance as the "perfect romance" only says "this is the perfect romance for me". Moreover, to try and replicate that romance would do nothing to offer a "better" romance to those individuals with that opinion, and merely serve to disappoint the people to whom it did not appeal.

[klmg8]

I don't think there is a straight person in DA2 they're all horny bisexuals. The 2 males and females will hit on anyone with a pulse. The only straight romance is the dlc and he is for female characters and if you're a dude playing a girl and romancing a dude you're gay anyway.

[pezit]

Bioware are not embracing any "gay movement" as far as I can tell. They are producing a product for their customers. Some of their customers want to have gay characters so they decided to offer the choice. If they decide it's not worth it, then they won't do it anymore.

The problem when all they do is try to please their customer is that there's no passion, imagine if movie directors started to listen to their audiance and fit everything they wanted in it? Oh wait you don't have to imagine it, just look at movies like Transformers, it is uninspired crap that is just trying to please the average non thinking male. Good movie directors don't do that, they envision something and do it. This is also why games like baldurs gate still gets so much praise, it's the godfather of gaming, while DA2 is like Transformers 3.

[Dr. Impossible]

lostspline wrote...

Also, abandoning the "heterosexual male demographic"?  The game does abandon a lot of "heterosexual male" privilege but that demographic is still served well with Isabella and Merrill.

"Privilege" is a totally nonsensical feminist concept that has no grounding in reality.

lostspline wrote...

You really think they fear a backlash of "1% of its players"?

Liberals
are constantly terrified of doing or saying anything that might offend
designated victim groups (non-whites, women, gays etc.), even if it's just a couple of people.

[Dr. Impossible]

Fidget6 wrote...

Are you really that uncomfortable in your
own sexuality that even having guys around you that are open to being
with another guy will break a whole game for you?

K12aze wrote...

I'm at a loss here.....are people that insecure with thier own sexuality that a video game char makeing a pass at them ( that can be deflected and not brought up again ) totally ruins the game for them

Maybe some people just don't like gays or gay behavior.

[Nibien]

That was a rather long post to just say that you're a bigot who has problems accepting that not everyone is as bigoted as you.

Did the mean Anders man have a dialog option that had a heart icon? How utterly scathing, you should seek therapy and perhaps sue for emotional damages.

[Merci357]

Dr. Impossible wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Are you really that uncomfortable in your
own sexuality that even having guys around you that are open to being
with another guy will break a whole game for you?

K12aze wrote...

I'm at a loss here.....are people that insecure with thier own sexuality that a video game char makeing a pass at them ( that can be deflected and not brought up again ) totally ruins the game for them

Maybe some people just don't like gays or gay behavior.

You know, I don't like peanut butter. But I don't get upset when I see it in the market. In fact, you can eat it all day, and I'm happy for anyone who loves it. The existence of gay love interests in my game has the same impact on me.

[Nibien]

Dr. Impossible wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Are you really that uncomfortable in your
own sexuality that even having guys around you that are open to being
with another guy will break a whole game for you?

K12aze wrote...

I'm at a loss here.....are people that insecure with thier own sexuality that a video game char makeing a pass at them ( that can be deflected and not brought up again ) totally ruins the game for them

Maybe some people just don't like gays or gay behavior.

I don't like blacks or black behavior, thusly I'm going to post about how a game with a black character ruins the game for me.

Try not being a bigot, you'll get more enjoyment out of life.

[Ray Joel Oh]

Dr. Impossible wrote...

lostspline wrote...

Also, abandoning the "heterosexual male demographic"?  The game does abandon a lot of "heterosexual male" privilege but that demographic is still served well with Isabella and Merrill.

"Privilege" is a totally nonsensical feminist concept that has no grounding in reality.

lostspline wrote...

You really think they fear a backlash of "1% of its players"?

Liberals
are constantly terrified of doing or saying anything that might offend
designated victim groups (non-whites, women, gays etc.), even if it's just a couple of people.

"Privelege" is a feminist concept?  Lol wat?
Conservatives are constantly terrified, period.  Look behind you, it's a Mexican!
And this 1% of gamers nonsense is bullshlt.  According to the ESA, 40% of gamers are women.  Various studies put the percentage of homosexuals among the population at 1 in 10 to 1 in 20.  Makes sense for Bioware to try to tap those markets, in addition to targeting straight men.  And marketing savvy is neither a liberal nor conservative concept.

Modifié par Ray Joel Oh, 17 mars 2011 - 08:57 .

[K12aze]

What is wrong with gay people? I am a heterosexual guy and have friends that are homosexual. They are people also and not contagious. They should have every oppertunity to play the game they want to play. It's enough that RL is constantly telling them they are wrong and they shouldn't be happy. If a kiss between two same sex video game charchters adds to the enjoyment of the game and your only iconvience is to say "no thanks dude" then so be it. If after same sex flirtation was rejected and they ran away broken hearted never to be seen again you may have a point

[lostspline]

Dr. Impossible wrote...
Liberals
are constantly terrified of doing or saying anything that might offend
designated victim groups (non-whites, women, gays etc.), even if it's just a couple of people.

Dr. Impossible wrote...
Maybe some people just don't like gays or gay behavior.

Thank you for making it clear that this is a sociopolitical issue for you.  Now I know it's not possible to reason with you.

[Dr. Impossible]

Nibien wrote...

I don't like blacks or black behavior, thusly I'm going to post about how a game with a black character ruins the game for me.

Movies aimed at black audiences are not very popular among other people. Which is exactly what this is all about... if the game is geared towards gays and women, heterosexual men are going to lose interest.

Try not being a bigot, you'll get more enjoyment out of life.

Bigot is a nonsense word. It does not mean anything.

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

"Privelege" is a feminist concept?

Yes.

Conservatives are constantly terrified, period.

Is that somehow relevant?

And this 1% of gamers nonsense is bullshlt.  According to the ESA, 40% of gamers are women.

Depends on how you define gamer.

Various studies put the percentage of homosexuals among the population at 1 in 10 to 1 in 20.  Makes sense for Bioware to try to tap those markets, in addition to targeting straight men.

Gays play the same games as heterosexuals, but trying to specifically appeal to gays will turn away heterosexuals. So I don't think it makes any economic sense.

lostspline wrote...

Thank you for making it clear that
this is a sociopolitical issue for you.  Now I know it's not possible to
reason with you.

How could politics not be involved? Also your second sentence is a non sequitur.

Modifié par Dr. Impossible, 17 mars 2011 - 09:11 .

[Upset Goldfish]

I think what people are trying to say here, is that they don't mind having gay characters in their game if they don't hit on you when you don't want them to.

Case in point: Zevran in DA:O was a bloody nightmare to talk to without accidentally flirting with him or hurting his feelings.

Now that we have a multitude of characters that you may or may not be able to accidentally flirt with can get a little frustrating to some, and I guess to others it feels like it's all being pushed on them when the characters flirt with you at times, regardless of gender.

[Rixxencaxx]

David Gaider wrote...

Bastal wrote...
From comments like David Gaiders declaring that he used Twilight as in inspiration for Dragon Age 2 romance

I'll just point out that I did no such thing.

Twilight came up in conversation and I said that the romance in Twilight was well done-- for what it was meant to be-- and was interesting enough to merit examination. That's all.

There's a lot of assumptions in there, not least of which is a certain amount of privilege (not to mention an assumption that all straight male gamers must like the same thing), but I'll leave that to be discussed by everyone else.

i don't endorse the equation gay content = bad game....
Dao 1 had gay content and was a huge success....don't try to use this argument to support homophobia.
Romance in this game are simply bad.
Not only male companions jump on male hawke instantly but even female.....it's bad script....nothing more.
However people disliked this game not cause it' s not 100% straigh (mass effect 1 had gay content= success; dao had gay content =huge success; mass effect 2 had lesbian content= success) but cause it is a bad hack n'slash stripped of interesting story, dialogues, deep party interaction, skills, inventory management.

Modifié par Rixxencaxx, 17 mars 2011 - 09:22 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

Dr. Impossible wrote...

Gays play the same games as heterosexuals, but trying to specifically appeal to gays will turn away heterosexuals. So I don't think it makes any economic sense.

It doesn't though, not when the game is good.  It just turns away homophobics.  Considering how important it is to your kind to limit the sorts of roles you can play in a role playing game, you won't be missed.

[Carfax]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Edit edit: And furthermore, Carfax should google "Alexander the Great."  A gay man so heroic, he is forever remembered as "The Great!"  Carfax would be lucky to have his waistline remembered thusly.

Yeah, Alexander the Great was so gay, that he had three wives and God knows how many concubines.. 

The myth of Alexander the Great being gay needs to die..  At most, he was bisexual, but even that can be disputed quite readily.

[Rixxencaxx]

Dr. Impossible wrote...

Fidget6 wrote...

Are you really that uncomfortable in your
own sexuality that even having guys around you that are open to being
with another guy will break a whole game for you?

K12aze wrote...

I'm at a loss here.....are people that insecure with thier own sexuality that a video game char makeing a pass at them ( that can be deflected and not brought up again ) totally ruins the game for them

Maybe some people just don't like gays or gay behavior.

well... thay added more gay content cause ea spider crawler said that more people than they supposed played gay characters in DAO.....

[Fidget6]

Dr. Impossible wrote...

Various studies put the percentage of homosexuals among the population at 1 in 10 to 1 in 20.  Makes sense for Bioware to try to tap those markets, in addition to targeting straight men.

Gays play the same games as heterosexuals, but trying to specifically appeal to gays will turn away heterosexuals. So I don't think it makes any economic sense.

Why? Trying to specifically appeal to heterosexuals doesn't turn away us gays if the game is good. (Well, maybe in cases like Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball. XD) 

Doh! :ph34r:Ninja'd:ph34r:

Modifié par Fidget6, 17 mars 2011 - 09:22 .

[lostspline]

pezit wrote...
The problem when all they do is try to please their customer is that there's no passion, imagine if movie directors started to listen to their audiance and fit everything they wanted in it?

I don't think that they only try to please their customer.  If they did, Anders would have remained the irreverent kitten cuddler.  Instead, they turned him into a much more serious terrorist.

There are definite problems with "design by fans" (or committee)  but a game is not a movie.  In an RPG, I expect some freedom to define my character.  The author must let their "passion" be tempered by the desires of the fans who will play that character.

[Ray Joel Oh]

Upset Goldfish wrote...

I think what people are trying to say here, is that they don't mind having gay characters in their game if they don't hit on you when you don't want them to.

Case in point: Zevran in DA:O was a bloody nightmare to talk to without accidentally flirting with him or hurting his feelings.

Now that we have a multitude of characters that you may or may not be able to accidentally flirt with can get a little frustrating to some, and I guess to others it feels like it's all being pushed on them when the characters flirt with you at times, regardless of gender.

It would be nice if in character creation you could immediately decide if your character was gay, straight, or bi and have romance options be available appropriately.  I do understand not wanting to be hit on, but I think it's important for there to be as many choices as possible available for roleplay.

[Carfax]

lostspline wrote...

Bioware are not embracing any "gay movement" as far as I can tell.  They are producing a product for their customers.  Some of their customers want to have gay characters so they decided to offer the choice.  If they decide it's not worth it, then they won't do it anymore.

Perhaps embracing the gay movement was an incorrect description.  However, no one can dispute that a QUOTA is now in place for gay characters in Bioware games.

This more than anything is what upsets me, because it means that both story and character integrity play a second fiddle to political correctness.

Anders is the perfect example.  In Dragon Age Awakening, he was written as being explicitly heterosexual.  In DA2, he is now of "dubious sexuality" to put it mildly.

You really think they fear a backlash of "1% of its players"?

Minorities have a lot of power in Western democratic nations.  I shouldn't have to tell you that..

Nevermind, I didn't realize that you're just a troll.  I should have figured it out from the Krogan.

Are you calling Wrex a troll?

Modifié par Carfax, 17 mars 2011 - 09:25 .

[Ray Joel Oh]

Carfax wrote...

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

Edit edit: And furthermore, Carfax should google "Alexander the Great."  A gay man so heroic, he is forever remembered as "The Great!"  Carfax would be lucky to have his waistline remembered thusly.

Yeah, Alexander the Great was so gay, that he had three wives and God knows how many concubines.. 

The myth of Alexander the Great being gay needs to die..  At most, he was bisexual, but even that can be disputed quite readily.

Oscar Wilde had a wife and kids, too.  And my point is that sexual preference has no effect on heroism in the thinking world.

[Travie]

WAKE UP OP, WAKE UP!

You must have been having the 'chased down a hallway by flying penises' dream again.

Modifié par Travie, 17 mars 2011 - 09:33 .

[Dr. Impossible]

Ray Joel Oh wrote...

It doesn't though, not when the game is good.  It just turns away homophobics.  Considering how important it is to your kind to limit the sorts of roles you can play in a role playing game, you won't be missed.

Heterosexuals are only enthusiastic about homosexuality as a result of relentless conditioning and propaganda (in other words, liberalism). Most others are merely tolerant, but would rather not deal with it. The more gay content a game has, the less heterosexuals will want to play it.

It's amusing but telling that you think of role-playing in terms of what sexual activities your character can engage in.

Fidget6 wrote...

Why? Trying to specifically appeal to heterosexuals doesn't turn away us gays if the game is good. (Well, maybe in cases like Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball. XD)

And?

Modifié par Dr. Impossible, 17 mars 2011 - 09:30 .

[Aidunno]

Wiki says
In the modern West, according to major studies, 2% to 13% of the population are homosexual. A 2006 study suggested that 20% of the population anonymously reported some homosexual feelings, although relatively few participants in the study identified themselves as homosexual

After looking at those stats, include those men who may have a fantasy about watching two women together combined with males who play female characters. Then have a look at how popular "fan fiction" is as a genre. Taking these into consideration I doubt that the 1% stated is accurate especially when you consider that we are talking about a single player fantasy environment.

Personally I don't find romance in a game to be one of the driving factors and I will not specifically go out of my way to do it in game.

Modifié par Aidunno, 17 mars 2011 - 09:34 .