206 réponses à ce sujet

[siodine]

I have been a Bioware fan since I started playing video games. Back before I eeven payed attention to who developed a game, I played through MDK in my first all nighter to beat a game. I've loved every game since, especially Baldurs Gate 2. I played that game for as long as most people play MMORPG. You could say I wore the tires out on it. They make exceptional games and despite spending less and less time gaming, I continue to buy every game they pump out, sometimes on multiple systems eventually. So know I am coming from a place of love. I have been looking forward to Dragon Age for what seems like forever. I still am. But...

Coming out with a game and not including all the ready content in the box is disrepectful to fans. Bioware has got to get paid, and they deserve to, I recognize this.  I recognize the gaming industry has changed and long development times on giant games wont pay the bills. There will never again be a BG2:SOA. But these two DLC packs being avaliable at release yet not being included in the game is a line that should not be crossed.

If I buy a game, give me the whole thing. If the content could be created during intial development, put it in. 50-60 dollars is to much money to pay for an incomplete game. I dont know the prices on the DLC but I am willing to bet that it will push the cost of the game somewhere between 60-70 dollars. This is unacceptable!
Now I know the game by itself will be a game worth the money, and not lacking in any way. But this content is ready! Sure they could just hold it a month and not talk about it and then I would be none the wiser and just happy for more of a game I probably will have already beaten twice, but be it in a month or now, it just seems...dishonest....exploitive of current gaming trends. I am a huge fan and I will always support them, but for the first time ever I am really disappointed with Bioware. I would like to blame it on the whole EA thing, but I know its just a sign of the times. Talk about a disappointing first step into what I am sure will become a cash cow of practices in the gaming industry. Worst of all my first bitter taste of what is to come is delievered by my favorite developer, the one that has recieved more of my money already than any other group of fantastic gaming profesionals.

Please Bioware, explain it to me

John Schwarting - RL
Lanen - Baldurs Gate Series and NWN
Boff Moffet - KoTor
Wang - Jade Empire
John Shepard - Mass Effect

[GhoXen]

EA

[Joel171]

If they intentionally left out content in order to make an extra buck (or 7 or 15) then, yes, I'd be upset as well. However, it has been stated more than once, that the content was not stripped from the game in order cash in. It was extra content outside the original game. That doesn't upset me. Chances are, I won't buy any of the DLC. But that's because I'm getting old and cranky about such things. But it certainly doesn't upset me.

Modifié par Joel171, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:29 .

[MrGOH]

This has been discussed to death - the DLC you see available now, aside from promo preorder items, is the result of stuff that the team was able to put back in after content lock earlier this year (Stone Prisoner) or DLC produced by a separate DLC team since content lock. Stone Prisoner is free, so whining about it only applies if you plan to buy used at some unspecified point in the future or you're a software pirate. Warden's Keep is an ancillary quest not needed to complete the game, which is already long and feature rich.

Those who complain about the DLC are essentially telling Bioware that Warden's Keep would be fine if they just waited to release it because their feelings wouldn't be hurt that way. Ugh. It's not like you won't be able to complete Dragon Age without Warden's Keep, or that you miss out on more than a few hours worth of quests. Indeed, the only complaint is that there's no camp storage unless you buy Warden's Keep - the original campaign's lack of camp storage is due to the massively huge shared inventory system in place rather than a desire to release a broken game and get folks to pony up $$ for fixes via DLC.

Think of it this way - are you angered that console makers, computer manufacturers, heck, even car companies make extra add-ons for or more expensive, fully-featured versions of their products? Because you ought to be if ancillary DLC bothers you.

Modifié par MrGOH, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:36 .

[sideshowchad]

the stone prisoner is included in every new game, so it just lease the one DLC which is included in the collectors edition purchases. It's a nice bonus, but won't affect the outcome of the game, and to be honest I'll play the game for a couple of days and if it's as good as it looks I don't mind paying $7 for something extra

[siodine]

Joel171 wrote...

If they intentionally left out content in order to make an extra buck (or 7 or 15) then, yes, I'd be upset as well. However, it has been stated more than once, that the content was not stripped from the game in order cash in.

Its advertised before release and avaliable on release day. The only reason you can say it was not stripped out is because its not coded into the main retail box. Thats semantics.

[MrGOH]

siodine wrote...

Joel171 wrote...

If they intentionally left out content in order to make an extra buck (or 7 or 15) then, yes, I'd be upset as well. However, it has been stated more than once, that the content was not stripped from the game in order cash in.

Its advertised before release and avaliable on release day. The only reason you can say it was not stripped out is because its not coded into the main retail box. Thats semantics.

It was created after content-lock, which happened a while ago. Since then they've been bug hunting.

[GhoXen]

siodine wrote...

Its advertised before release and avaliable on release day. The only reason you can say it was not stripped out is because its not coded into the main retail box. Thats semantics.

As mentioned above: the DLCs are made after the content lock. At the same time, most of the DLCs are completely free with every new copy of game purchased.

[Kbrury]

Its extra content, stone prisoner is free, gaming changed when torrents came alive, and its only $7 for Warden's keep. Besides DA has the content of 2 games done by the best RPG maker.

[Joel171]

The DLC content was made after the content lock, as MrGOH mentioned. It wasn't ALLOWED to be put in. If it were put in, you'd be waiting longer for the game. The reason stone prisoner is free is because they pushed the game back from October to November. So they thought they'd be nice and include some free content. Rather nice of them, I'd say.



Again, it's not a REQUIRED thing. You don't get a whole lot. A few hours of extra content. But that's just what it is. Extra. It's not part of the main story, it's not required to finish the game. In fact, I'm fairly certain there will be a large amount of people that won't buy it.



It's pointless to be upset about a thing you cannot change. The fact is, it's just extra things that the BioWare team was able to create after the Content Lock. If you don't like it, don't buy it. (I hate saying that, and I don't mean to sound like a jerk, like the other people that say that)

I'm sorry you're upset. If I could change it for you, I would.

[siodine]

MrGOH wrote...

Think of it this way - are you angered that console makers, computer manufacturers, heck, even car companies make extra add-ons for or more expensive, fully-featured versions of their products? Because you ought to be if ancillary DLC bothers you.

You make a good point, the X-box Elite comes to mind. I didnt mind the "premium" X-Box because it didnt make my X-Box any less of an X-Box. Thank you for the insight.

However, I do think its hard to compare the two. Games are both a product and an artistic medium. I look at this like a book. How would you feel if your favorite author came out with a book, thought of two great new chapters to address further content he wishes to convey after sending it off to the publisher, and sold them separately on the books release date.

[MrGOH]

siodine wrote...

MrGOH wrote...

Think of it this way - are you angered that console makers, computer manufacturers, heck, even car companies make extra add-ons for or more expensive, fully-featured versions of their products? Because you ought to be if ancillary DLC bothers you.

You make a good point, the X-box Elite comes to mind. I didnt mind the "premium" X-Box because it didnt make my X-Box any less of an X-Box. Thank you for the insight.

However, I do think its hard to compare the two. Games are both a product and an artistic medium. I look at this like a book. How would you feel if your favorite author came out with a book, thought of two great new chapters to address further content he wishes to convey after sending it off to the publisher, and sold them separately on the books release date.

I would not be at all upset about it if a favorite author released an ancillary short story related to a good novel. It happens fairly frequently. Or if a band released a single with an extra song alongside an album I like. 

[Joel171]

siodine wrote...

MrGOH wrote...

Think of it this way - are you angered that console makers, computer manufacturers, heck, even car companies make extra add-ons for or more expensive, fully-featured versions of their products? Because you ought to be if ancillary DLC bothers you.

You make a good point, the X-box Elite comes to mind. I didnt mind the "premium" X-Box because it didnt make my X-Box any less of an X-Box. Thank you for the insight.

However, I do think its hard to compare the two. Games are both a product and an artistic medium. I look at this like a book. How would you feel if your favorite author came out with a book, thought of two great new chapters to address further content he wishes to convey after sending it off to the publisher, and sold them separately on the books release date.

If those two chapters had nothing to do with the plot of the book, I wouldn't be upset at all, and likely wouldn't purchase the other two chapters unless I heard it was just wonderful and/or loved the Author (In this case, BioWare)

[GhoXen]

siodine wrote...

However, I do think its hard to compare the two. Games are both a product and an artistic medium. I look at this like a book. How would you feel if your favorite author came out with a book, thought of two great new chapters to address further content he wishes to convey after sending it off to the publisher, and sold them separately on the books release date.

Think of it this way then.

The author finished his book and sent it to the publisher. While it's being edited and prepared to publish, he wrote two more chapters. He sent those chapters to be published, and since the process took less time the three items all get published at the same date. The publisher decides to pack one of the chapters free with each new purchase of the book, while the other chapter will cost a few more bucks.

Sounds fair to me. It's just marketing, and that's not the developer's job nor responsiblity but the publisher's.

[Matthew Moore]

But most DLC is in development while the rest of the game is in development. Believing your entitled to content just because it happens to come out at the same time is both naive and childish. DVDs release with collectors edition benifits, Music comes out with post album remixes. Thinking that just because you plucked down your initial $60 doesnt mean anyone owes you anything other than whats it that box. Bioware is giving you a 80+ hour game and your whining because they are making post release content that will expand on that game you bought is quite funny to me. If anything I hope they make a lot more DLC and the process they implemented for this release continues. If I am enjoying a game I would pay more money for more content. I doubt I am alone with this sentiment considering the amount of people in this who agree with my point of view by making DLC profitable and voice their opinion with their wallets.

[POOTIE2BLOOD]

hey im not complainning. i think DLC is great.if you dont want it dont buy it, and if you do want it, buy it. its very simple.

[Joel171]

Yeah. I just want to burst a Dragon's eyes like Morrigan did in the Sacred Ashes trailer. But not if the DLC has a quest to recover Dragon Eyes. I wouldn't pay for that.
<_<

[siodine]

Joel171 wrote...

It's pointless to be upset about a thing you cannot change. The fact is, it's just extra things that the BioWare team was able to create after the Content Lock. If you don't like it, don't buy it. (I hate saying that, and I don't mean to sound like a jerk, like the other people that say that)
I'm sorry you're upset. If I could change it for you, I would.

Content lock, got it. But to say "its pointless to be upset about things you cannot change." is a dangerous road. You can voice concern and speak with your dollar.  I dont like micro transactions and we can change it before it becomes an entrenched standard.  The main game content will be quite lengthy for 50 dollars. For a few extra hours of content you pay 7. The cost/benefit ratio is degrade. DLC is of lesser value (Monetary funds only) than the intial product. It allows them to extend the dollars they get from a single product while you get less. Make em put it into a excellent expansion like they used to, we the customers will recieve more bang for our bucks

[Giant Panther]

Matthew Moore wrote...

But most DLC is in development while the rest of the game is in development. Believing your entitled to content just because it happens to come out at the same time is both naive and childish. DVDs release with collectors edition benifits, Music comes out with post album remixes. Thinking that just because you plucked down your initial $60 doesnt mean anyone owes you anything other than whats it that box. Bioware is giving you a 80+ hour game and your whining because they are making post release content that will expand on that game you bought is quite funny to me. If anything I hope they make a lot more DLC and the process they implemented for this release continues. If I am enjoying a game I would pay more money for more content. I doubt I am alone with this sentiment considering the amount of people in this who agree with my point of view by making DLC profitable and voice their opinion with their wallets.

sorry OP but this guy is very right

[Joel171]

I don't know what to tell you, then, man. I understand your concerns on the matter, but I seriously doubt it will change. The amount of apathy on the subject is more than the concern one way or the other. I respect that you dislike the idea, and I'm not trying to keep you from voicing your opinion in any way, shape, or form. That's your right. I'm just giving mine, as well.

[MrGOH]

siodine wrote...

Joel171 wrote...

It's pointless to be upset about a thing you cannot change. The fact is, it's just extra things that the BioWare team was able to create after the Content Lock. If you don't like it, don't buy it. (I hate saying that, and I don't mean to sound like a jerk, like the other people that say that)
I'm sorry you're upset. If I could change it for you, I would.

Content lock, got it. But to say "its pointless to be upset about things you cannot change." is a dangerous road. You can voice concern and speak with your dollar.  I dont like micro transactions and we can change it before it becomes an entrenched standard.  The main game content will be quite lengthy for 50 dollars. For a few extra hours of content you pay 7. The cost/benefit ratio is degrade. DLC is of lesser value (Monetary funds only) than the intial product. It allows them to extend the dollars they get from a single product while you get less. Make em put it into a excellent expansion like they used to, we the customers will recieve more bang for our bucks

The cost:benefit ratio is only a problem if people don't buy it; if it's profitable, then your issue is with what others are willing to pay. If it's a real problem, folks won't pay. This is admittedly simplistic - the best course of action is to buy DA:O but not the DLC - send the signal that you like big, single transaction games and not subsequent microtransactions. 

[Matthew Moore]

siodine wrote...

Joel171 wrote...

It's pointless to be upset about a thing you cannot change. The fact is, it's just extra things that the BioWare team was able to create after the Content Lock. If you don't like it, don't buy it. (I hate saying that, and I don't mean to sound like a jerk, like the other people that say that)
I'm sorry you're upset. If I could change it for you, I would.

Content lock, got it. But to say "its pointless to be upset about things you cannot change." is a dangerous road. You can voice concern and speak with your dollar.  I dont like micro transactions and we can change it before it becomes an entrenched standard.  The main game content will be quite lengthy for 50 dollars. For a few extra hours of content you pay 7. The cost/benefit ratio is degrade. DLC is of lesser value (Monetary funds only) than the intial product. It allows them to extend the dollars they get from a single product while you get less. Make em put it into a excellent expansion like they used to, we the customers will recieve more bang for our bucks

You "dont like microtransactions."   I see microtransactions as a vehicle for developers to release content to their audience in small yet significant pieces and the small price paid by users will allow the company to recoup development costs.  Making games is expensive and if I can get a lot of small pieces of Dragon age between now and the next version I am all for it and in fact very excited for it.

Microtransactions are the reason why Grand Theft Auto Lost and the Damned worked and why the ballad of gay tony will work as well.  Microtransactions and episodic content furthers gamers desire to play games they already love and allow the developer to continue to make great post game content and not worry about where the paycheck is coming from for their work.  Fallout 3 has seen great success with their post game content and one of the key problems with Bioware's last major RPG outing, Mass Effect, was the lack of quality DLC.  This is a problem I hope they remedy thoroughly with Dragon Age and their two years of post release content.  

[siodine]

Joel171 wrote...

I don't know what to tell you, then, man. I understand your concerns on the matter, but I seriously doubt it will change. The amount of apathy on the subject is more than the concern one way or the other. I respect that you dislike the idea, and I'm not trying to keep you from voicing your opinion in any way, shape, or form. That's your right. I'm just giving mine, as well.

No I totally hear you. I just think Its less of a value and more of a pain. The DVD extras and music singles are al good points as well, but in this case I just see this all getting out of hand in the industry.

[siodine]

MrGOH wrote...

The cost:benefit ratio is only a problem if people don't buy it; if it's profitable, then your issue is with what others are willing to pay. If it's a real problem, folks won't pay. This is admittedly simplistic - the best course of action is to buy DA:O but not the DLC - send the signal that you like big, single transaction games and not subsequent microtransactions. 

Uhg, here is where all my griping breaks down. Everything Bioware has ever done has been worth every penny and I probably will pay. If a developer isnt worth it, I wont. You all probably win. Glad at least I got owned and converted by fellow bioware fans.

Touche