206 réponses à ce sujet

[Maufurtado]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
DLC doesn't have to go through the same wait that retail products do.  They get turned around faster.  It's very simple to finish a game, then work on DLC, and have that DLC finished by the time retail ships.

if you really research this, it becomes clear that Bioware was fully capable of including this content with release. they just chose not to.

And you know that how?

[flungmuk]

Ekardt wrote...

GhoXen wrote...

Generally it's my thumb down rule to never whine about something that costs less than a good pizza and at the same time lasts for longer than the time I need to relocate the said good pizza into my stomach.

I do something similar, I compare it to movies. 7-10 dollars for 2-3 hours of entertainment for any movie in theatres. I use a dollar per hour of entertainment system. If I can get at least 1 hour per 2 dollars from my games and DLC im satisfied.

Both ideal ways to look at it.
Did you get $xx enjoyment out of it??? If yes then it was worth it.
Personaly I'll be getting it all right away.
But for me when it comes to DLC, it has to be worth it too, I didn't get any of the DLC for Oblivion untill I got Night of the Nine. Mostly because I didn't feel it was good value.
For the house DLC I felt that the comunity made better mods and the other quests felt a bit week to me.
But all in one with NotN, not an issue. Other than having to install them 1 at a time.

But this isnt Oblivion so it shouldn't be an issue.
Much longer game to start with, and lets face it...It's a Bioware story.

[Varenus Luckmann]

the_one_54321 wrote...
if you really research this, it becomes clear that Bioware was fully capable of including this content with release. EA just chose not to.

Fix't.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Would you also like to complain that the collectors edition has more content?



I can understand being a little annoyed with DLC, but the dragon age DLC is both high quality and well-delivered from what I've seen. Stone prisoner comes with every new copy of the game( to get money out of used game sales) and warden's keep is a premium module meant to compete with user mods. Sure it sucks that you have to pay a little extra (or buy the DDE) to experience it but it's not like you'll enjoy the game less because you're missing out on an hour or two of bonus content.

[AlexJK]

the_one_54321 wrote...

if you really research this, it becomes clear that Bioware was fully capable of including this content with release. they just chose not to.

Actually Bioware themselves have stated that it WOULD NOT have been possible (nor was it ever intended, with the possible exception of the very original idea for Shale) to include TSP/Warden's Keep in the retail box, for deadline/testing reasons. Frankly, I believe them, as they have experience of being a game developer/producer - I don't, do you?

Can I ask an open question, to all those complaining about day-1 DLC. Let's say that instead of releasing it on day 1, they released it in a couple of months, in time for Christmas. Would you still argue it should be free, just because it was developed at the same time as the game?

Modifié par AlexJK, 29 octobre 2009 - 04:35 .

[the_one_54321]

Maufurtado wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
DLC doesn't have to go through the same wait that retail products do.  They get turned around faster.  It's very simple to finish a game, then work on DLC, and have that DLC finished by the time retail ships.

if you really research this, it becomes clear that Bioware was fully capable of including this content with release. they just chose not to.

And you know that how?

like i said, research. before you ask, no im not going to look it up for you. it's on the forums. you look for it. i did my homework, and now it's your turn.

[Lord Clocks]

the_one_54321 wrote...

if you really research this, it becomes clear that Bioware was fully capable of including this content with release. they just chose not to.

Thats right, to make sure you got the game by November 3rd, they chose not to.

To make sure the game was available as a christmas gift, they chose not to.

Knowing they had 60 hours of content already and an available  full DLC team who could have this content handed off to and would not be constrained by engine/freeze/RTM dates, they made the choice to hand off the unfinished stuff as a DLC pack to co-release with the game.

Damn them all, the heathens!

Im sorry you guys are eternal whiners who will never be ok with DLC.  You have a long, dark, whiny life ahead of you.  This is a new business model.  Bioware has a dedicated DLC team for this product.  They have been interevewed in several mediums and talked about the long term strategy for the product.  DLC, expansions, new full "releases" elsewhere in the world. 

I hereby incorporate by reference all of the other forum posts I have written on this matter.  Its not going away.  Your whining does not matter because there are a hundred thousand consumers like me that will power that business model and sustain the cost of development.

[the_one_54321]

AlexJK wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

if you really research this, it becomes clear that Bioware was fully capable of including this content with release. they just chose not to.

Actually Bioware themselves have stated that it WOULD NOT have been possible to include TSP/Warden's Keep in the retail box, for deadline/testing reasons. Frankly, I believe them, as I'm not a game developer/producer/publisher - are you?

well i dont believe them. they had time to code in a merchant the sells the stuff to you ingame, and then the stuff gets installed in the game after that. so they encoded the installer as well. they could have spent that time just putting the stuff in the game. of course they're going to tell us what they think we should hear. that doesnt make it the truth. like i said, i've lost some respect for bioware over this, and this is why.

AlexJK wrote...
Can I ask an open question, to all those complaining about day-1 DLC. Let's say that instead of releasing it on day 1, they released it in a couple of months, in time for Christmas. Would you still argue it should be free, just because it was developed at the same time as the game?

i would argue that it should be free. unless they packaged it all together and sold it as a seperate physical retail expansion pack.

[Taleroth]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
DLC doesn't have to go through the same wait that retail products do.  They get turned around faster.  It's very simple to finish a game, then work on DLC, and have that DLC finished by the time retail ships.

if you really research this, it becomes clear that Bioware was fully capable of including this content with release. they just chose not to.

How does that contest my point?  I was not arguing that they were unable.  I was arguing that it wasn't part of the development of the main game.

The distinction between the two isn't timing.  That should have been evidently not my argument when I mentioned March.  They likely wouldn't have worked on it at all if they couldn't have used it for DLC.  Not simply held it back.

[the_one_54321]

Lord Clocks wrote...
I hereby incorporate by reference all of the other forum posts I have written on this matter.  Its not going away.  Your whining does not matter because there are a hundred thousand consumers like me that will power that business model and sustain the cost of development.

well thank you very much for fueling the ruination of gaming business models, and ensuring that every time you post about stuff like this there will be people like me here to complain about it.

[Lord Clocks]

There MAY be free DLC as a promo/thankyou/marketing bit.

But why the hell should Bioware invest 100 or 1000 manhours in creating something you arent going to pay for?

Just because you dont have a cardboard box to hold in your hand does not mean any less work went into putting together the assets you want to use in game.

Modifié par Lord Clocks, 29 octobre 2009 - 04:39 .

[the_one_54321]

Lord Clocks wrote...

There MAY be free DLC as a promo/thankyou/marketing bit.

But why the hell should Bioware invest 100 or 1000 manhours in creating something you arent going to pay for?

Just because you dont have a cardboard box to hold in your hand does not mean any less work went into putting together the assets you want to use in game.

it has nothing to do with the cardboard box. it has everything to do with the physical copy that will always work, even if EA disolves bioware at some point in the future.

i still have games from the origianl Playstation that i like to play. i'd like to think that this game will be good enough to warrent the same kind of treatment.

[jazzy B 3]

Things are worth what people are willing to pay for them. That is how markets work. If people are willing to pay the asking price for DLC then the DLC will be profitable and will continue to be used as a business model. If people feel that it's not worth it, it will cease to be profitable and will no longer be made. The definition of "what people are willing to pay for something" changes daily. Check out the stock markets and inflation.

[Eshaye]

Ugh, the game on it's own is already what 70ish hours long? DLCs are extra and should not even have made it to the final product. Ever wonder how much content in older games you never got to see because it had to be cut out, because they ran out of time and couldn't finish it? Now for a few dollars you get to play it if you so choose to.

They are not holding out so they can charge us more, they are now able to give us MORE then ever before. You can't tell me this isn't a good thing and yes it is moving forwards. This model may change later on and probably will be, instead of big expansions like we used to get can you imagine getting constant updates for smaller payments? This means you game can grow for years and years, with or without mods.

While from the outside looking in this sort of thing may seem like a cash grab, it's actually devs giving us more option. Should they not earn money for their work? Do they not deserve to live well for entertaining us? Think about your own work, isn't nice when people appreciate you for what you do and pay you for it, maybe give you a bonus for a job really well done?

Modifié par Eshaye, 29 octobre 2009 - 04:44 .

[Lord Clocks]

the_one_54321 wrote...

well thank you very much for fueling the ruination of gaming business models

This is the kind of reactionary drivel that speaks to the challenge in any developer continuing to deal with PC gamers.

This is evolution, not ruination.  The "I bought a box and thats all im every going to buy" model is still there.  You yourself will participate in it.  YOu arent all of the PC gaming audience.  You arent all of the console gaming audience.  People have proven that they are willing to make the other choice, to reach out and cotninue to support products they find fun.  For that segment, there are other possibilities here IN ADDITION to the model you choose to continue consuming.

This game cost millions.  It will recoup some number of millions from box sales.  The secondary channels (like DLC) enable us to see more content and to provide capital for continued investment in this space, both for this product specifically, and also to enable strong financial argument for continuing this series into the future.

[the_one_54321]

Eshaye wrote...
They are not holding out so they can charge us more, they are now able to give us MORE then ever before. You can't tell me this isn't a good thing and yes it is moving forwards. This model may change later on and probably will be, instead of big expansions like we used to get can you imagine getting constant updates for smaller payments? This means you game can grow for years and years, with or without mods.

and pay that much more for it, though in small unassuming amounts. there is the trick to it. you pay $5 at a time until you've spent $50-$70, and you dont have the ability to say "i have this copy of the game and it will always work."

im not saying they shouldnt make more. im not saying they shouldnt charge for it. im saying thsy shouldnt distribute it online one tiny piece at a time. i want a disk. that will always work. no DLC.

[Maufurtado]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Maufurtado wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
DLC doesn't have to go through the same wait that retail products do.  They get turned around faster.  It's very simple to finish a game, then work on DLC, and have that DLC finished by the time retail ships.

if you really research this, it becomes clear that Bioware was fully capable of including this content with release. they just chose not to.

And you know that how?

like i said, research. before you ask, no im not going to look it up for you. it's on the forums. you look for it. i did my homework, and now it's your turn.

I didn't ask you to do anything. I didn't need your snark response either.

Thanks. Have a good life.

[the_one_54321]

Lord Clocks wrote...

This game cost millions.  It will recoup some number of millions from box sales.  The secondary channels (like DLC) enable us to see more content and to provide capital for continued investment in this space, both for this product specifically, and also to enable strong financial argument for continuing this series into the future.

if this is honestly the only way they can justify continued support for the product then their eyes are too big for their stomach. if they cant provide a copy of the content that will always work then it's not worth it. one day it wont work, for some reason. and if you really loved the game that much, you'll suddenly be left without it.

[Papahet31]

With due respect (and please believe that when I say it), this topic has been beaten into the ground.

Things change and that is the reality. Go with it or choose not to. Buy the game and everything that comes with it (or doesn't) or don't buy the game.

[the_one_54321]

Maufurtado wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Maufurtado wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
DLC doesn't have to go through the same wait that retail products do.  They get turned around faster.  It's very simple to finish a game, then work on DLC, and have that DLC finished by the time retail ships.

if you really research this, it becomes clear that Bioware was fully capable of including this content with release. they just chose not to.

And you know that how?

like i said, research. before you ask, no im not going to look it up for you. it's on the forums. you look for it. i did my homework, and now it's your turn.

I didn't ask you to do anything. I didn't need your snark response either.

Thanks. Have a good life.

i appologize if that came off unpleasantly, but this is a hostile environment for me as well.

[Lord Clocks]

Dont look now, the_one. PC disks will continue to fade. As soon as a handful of AAA titles go digital-only, the retail chains will start selling online download cards, I think.



We are already seeing that with a number of titles whose expansions are NEVER sold in box. They are sold DLC to begin with.



I think saying I will always tie myself to my disk is short sighted and will make you forever unhappy as this industry continues to digitize. A game on the PC, after all (whether I agree with it or not -- i dont) is licensed. A console game is bought. If all you are getting is a license in the first place on the PC, why would they have incentive to continue selling a physical disk?

[Eshaye]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...
They are not holding out so they can charge us more, they are now able to give us MORE then ever before. You can't tell me this isn't a good thing and yes it is moving forwards. This model may change later on and probably will be, instead of big expansions like we used to get can you imagine getting constant updates for smaller payments? This means you game can grow for years and years, with or without mods.

and pay that much more for it, though in small unassuming amounts. there is the trick to it. you pay $5 at a time until you've spent $50-$70, and you dont have the ability to say "i have this copy of the game and it will always work."

im not saying they shouldnt make more. im not saying they shouldnt charge for it. im saying thsy shouldnt distribute it online one tiny piece at a time. i want a disk. that will always work. no DLC.

I'm not sure what you are talking about, discs break. You can always re-download a dlc. You people make it seem like Bioware is taking something away from you, when in fact they are giving us MORE. Refer back to my first paragraph in my previous post.  

And you're basically saying they should work for free. Sorry they are not our personal slaves they deserve to get paid for what they do just like we get paid too at our jobs. Artists live by comission, why should video game devs be different, this IS art.

[the_one_54321]

Papahet31 wrote...

With due respect (and please believe that when I say it), this topic has been beaten into the ground.

Things change and that is the reality. Go with it or choose not to. Buy the game and everything that comes with it (or doesn't) or don't buy the game.

i agree. and that's why i said in my second post here that i simply will not be buying any DLC.

[the_one_54321]

Eshaye wrote...
You can always re-download a dlc.

no you cant. one day bioware wont be there, or the support wont be there. it happens to all companies eventually.

like i said, i have games from the original Playstation that i still play. will anyone ever be able to say the same about DLC that is that old?

[the_one_54321]

Lord Clocks wrote...
I think saying I will always tie myself to my disk is short sighted and will make you forever unhappy as this industry continues to digitize. A game on the PC, after all (whether I agree with it or not -- i dont) is licensed. A console game is bought. If all you are getting is a license in the first place on the PC, why would they have incentive to continue selling a physical disk?

then the PC gaming industry will be forcing me into playing only console games. i wont like it, but i will do it. there are plenty of console games that i enjoy.