206 réponses à ce sujet

[b09boy]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Maufurtado wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Taleroth wrote...
DLC doesn't have to go through the same wait that retail products do.  They get turned around faster.  It's very simple to finish a game, then work on DLC, and have that DLC finished by the time retail ships.

if you really research this, it becomes clear that Bioware was fully capable of including this content with release. they just chose not to.

And you know that how?

like i said, research. before you ask, no im not going to look it up for you. it's on the forums. you look for it. i did my homework, and now it's your turn.

What research?  You don't provide any information whatsoever, all you say is that it's clear that they could have included it.  Based on what?  From everything given it very clear there's no way it could have been put on the disk and to give it away for free would be a loss of money.

[Eshaye]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...
You can always re-download a dlc.

no you cant. one day bioware wont be there, or the support wont be there. it happens to all companies eventually.

like i said, i have games from the original Playstation that i still play. will anyone ever be able to say the same about DLC that is that old?

You don't know this and if I'm really worried I can always save the unpacked files on my computer or better an external drive and 'file' it away in case this does happen. However I do think EA, Steam and Fileplanet will be there a long time and if not as I said you can always store a digital copy like you would a hard copy.  

[Maufurtado]

the_one_54321 wrote...

i appologize if that came off unpleasantly, but this is a hostile environment for me as well.

Hostile? I never considered this forum or any forum a hostile environment. Which explains why I felt your response was over the top. We're a community. Not enemies.

I understand people think the DLC is a way for EA to make money instead of including the whole content the game.

I also understand that after 5 years producing this game, the ammount of detail may forced a lot of things out in order to make the game available from the newbie to the hardcore player. 

Is DLC bad? No.

It could be better? Probably yes.

Modifié par Maufurtado, 29 octobre 2009 - 04:58 .

[Eshaye]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Lord Clocks wrote...
I think saying I will always tie myself to my disk is short sighted and will make you forever unhappy as this industry continues to digitize. A game on the PC, after all (whether I agree with it or not -- i dont) is licensed. A console game is bought. If all you are getting is a license in the first place on the PC, why would they have incentive to continue selling a physical disk?

then the PC gaming industry will be forcing me into playing only console games. i wont like it, but i will do it. there are plenty of console games that i enjoy.

Except console games are DLC's too and you can even download full games on your console now, sure they are small games but it's only a matter of time before they can bigger.. 

Anyway this topic is done like dinner. 

[the_one_54321]

b09boy wrote...
What research?  You don't provide any information whatsoever, all you say is that it's clear that they could have included it.  Based on what?  From everything given it very clear there's no way it could have been put on the disk and to give it away for free would be a loss of money.

there are tons of topics on this in the forums. people have been talking about what bioware has said, and what it might really mean, and what they think about it, pretty much nonstop. you look it up. im not going to go look it up for you.

Eshaye wrote...
You don't know this and if I'm really worried I can always save the unpacked files on my computer or better an
external drive and 'file' it away in case this does happen. However I do think EA, Steam and Fileplanet will be there a long time and if not as I said you can always store a digital copy like you would a hard copy.  

it happens to all companies or products eventually. because, as you say, times change and there's no stopping it. i understand about saving my own copies. but i want physical copies. it's just easier and nicer that way. you cant put an external hard drive on a bookshelf to show off.

Eshaye wrote...
Except console games are DLC's too and you can even download full games on your console now, sure they are small games but it's only a matter of time before they can bigger.

a very true and disheartening statement.

Maufurtado wrote...
Hostile? I never considered this forum or any forum a hostile environment. Which explains why I felt your response was over the top. We're a community. Not enemies.

i like the concept of your statement. but the amount of snark with which i have been responded to tells me othewise.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:07 .

[Lord Clocks]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...
You don't know this and if I'm really worried I can always save the unpacked files on my computer or better an
external drive and 'file' it away in case this does happen. However I do think EA, Steam and Fileplanet will be there a long time and if not as I said you can always store a digital copy like you would a hard copy.  

it happens to all companies or products eventually. because, as you say, times change and there's no stopping it. i understand about saving my own copies. but i want physical copies. it's just easier and nicer that way. you cant put an external hard drive on a bookshelf to show off.

Go console.  Try to play late 90s games on windows 7.  Only a few still work.  In a few more years your disks will degrade enough that you wont be able to use them.

Do you think that the company will replace them at that point?

Games have a lifecycle like anything else.  Is it reasonabe to expect them to support DLC longer than they would support my disk based version?

Probably not.  The disk version is not supported in perpituity either.

[the_one_54321]

Lord Clocks wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Eshaye wrote...
You don't know this and if I'm really worried I can always save the unpacked files on my computer or better an
external drive and 'file' it away in case this does happen. However I do think EA, Steam and Fileplanet will be there a long time and if not as I said you can always store a digital copy like you would a hard copy.  

it happens to all companies or products eventually. because, as you say, times change and there's no stopping it. i understand about saving my own copies. but i want physical copies. it's just easier and nicer that way. you cant put an external hard drive on a bookshelf to show off.

Go console.  Try to play late 90s games on windows 7.  Only a few still work.  In a few more years your disks will degrade enough that you wont be able to use them.

yeah, i've just run into that problem actually. i think my solution is going to be to install an old hard drive on my comp and dual boot XP when i want to play older games.

except that i doubt my disks will degrade. i take very good care of them for precisely that purpose.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:11 .

[Eshaye]

[quote]the_one_54321 wrote...



it happens to all companies or products eventually. because, as you say, times change and there's no stopping it. i understand about saving my own copies. but i want physical copies. it's just easier and nicer that way. you cant put an external hard drive on a bookshelf to show off.





This is true!!! My bookshelf is rather full but if a game comes out where I am a raging fan about it I may try to get the hard copy for it just for this purpose. I may buy DA as a hard copy later on too just to have as a spare or to put in my library. FF14 I may have to order a physical copy because I am a hardcore fan of Square Enix, what sucks is I live in an area where getting hard copies is harder then downloading... When I want to pre order a game often people who work at the computer store (yes we just have one) never know what I'm talking about. And the EB games is at the next town over and they'll only hold a copy for a few days...  

Guess it's a matter of perspective too. 

[Lord Clocks]

Imprinted Disks (e.g. from a manufacturing house as opposed to burned by you) stored in pristine library-class conditions are estimated to have a lifetime of 20 years.



No matter what you do with them.

[the_one_54321]

Eshaye wrote...
This is true!!! My bookshelf is rather full but if a game comes out where I am a raging fan about it I may try to get the hard copy for it just for this purpose. I may buy DA as a hard copy later on too just to have as a spare or to put in my library. FF14 I may have to order a physical copy because I am a hardcore fan of Square Enix, what sucks is I live in an area where getting hard copies is harder then downloading... When I want to pre order a game often people who work at the computer store (yes we just have one) never know what I'm talking about. And the EB games is at the next town over and they'll only hold a copy for a few days...  

Guess it's a matter of perspective too. 

heheh, yeah, i have most of the FF series on my bookshelf, along wtih Kingdom Hearts, Xenosaga, and Xenogears. i hope they'll last a long long time.

Lord Clocks wrote...

Imprinted Disks (e.g. from a
manufacturing house as opposed to burned by you) stored in pristine
library-class conditions are estimated to have a lifetime of 20 years.

No matter what you do with them.

that's true. and the same is true of all collectables. but it doesnt mean that DLC content will be supported longer than that. heck, i rather doubt it, actually.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:18 .

[b09boy]

the_one_54321 wrote...

b09boy wrote...
What research?  You don't provide any information whatsoever, all you say is that it's clear that they could have included it.  Based on what?  From everything given it very clear there's no way it could have been put on the disk and to give it away for free would be a loss of money.

there are tons of topics on this in the forums. people have been talking about what bioware has said, and what it might really mean, and what they think about it, pretty much nonstop. you look it up. im not going to go look it up for you.

I'm not telling you to look up anything.  I'm telling you to explain what you're talking about.  How am I supposed to reasearch something when you're not giving me anything to go off of?

[the_one_54321]

b09boy wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

b09boy wrote...
What research?  You don't provide any information whatsoever, all you say is that it's clear that they could have included it.  Based on what?  From everything given it very clear there's no way it could have been put on the disk and to give it away for free would be a loss of money.

there are tons of topics on this in the forums. people have been talking about what bioware has said, and what it might really mean, and what they think about it, pretty much nonstop. you look it up. im not going to go look it up for you.

I'm not telling you to look up anything.  I'm telling you to explain what you're talking about.  How am I supposed to reasearch something when you're not giving me anything to go off of?

i've talked about it in several posts and others responses already...

[MrGOH]

Most Digital Download services also let you backup game data to DVD - D2D and Steam do, at least. If the business model ever goes fully digital and away from physical media, I daresay the rights issues will be far worse on consoles than on PC, since consoles won't let you store game data indefinitely on media like DVD's.

[JamesX]

11% extra cost ($7 vs $60 for the game) for a content that is maybe ~5 hours is a pretty hefty price tag.



But that is how DLC works. You may very little money but you pay more often. It works and it generates more profit.

[b09boy]

the_one_54321 wrote...

i've talked about it in several posts and others responses already...

No you haven't.  You made the initial claim then went off on different tangents while avoiding my questioning.  So let's make this clear just what it is that you think.  Do you think that the DLC was cut from the original game?  Do you think that the DLC could have been put onto the disk?  Do you think that that the DLC should have been free?  If you answer yes to any of these questions, why do you think this?

Modifié par b09boy, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:32 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

siodine wrote...

If I buy a game, give me the whole thing.

I'll explain it to you.

Your position is completely nonsensical.

What's in the box is what determines the extent of "the whole thing".  You're getting the whole game.  But you're also given the option to buy a small number of other, related products.  But the game you buy for $50 is the game - that's all of it.

Your position is basically this: If you buy a game for $50 dollars, and there is no other content available, then you can be happy with that game (assuming it's of adequate quality).  But, if there is other content available, then you're now unhappy with your purchase, even though you're spending exactly the same amount and getting exactly the same game.

Think about that.  Somehow the existence of other products that have no effect on your purchase is changing how you feel about that transaction.

That's nonsense.  You should be ashamed of yourself for being so irrational.

[the_one_54321]

b09boy wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

i've talked about it in several posts and others responses already...

No you haven't.  You made the initial claim then went off on different tangents while avoiding my questioning.  So let's make this clear just what it is that you think.  Do you think that the DLC was cut from the original game?  Do you think that the DLC could have been put onto the disk?  Do you think that that the DLC should have been free?  If you answer yes to any of these questions, why do you think this?

i've answered all those questions already.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
What's in the box is what determines the extent of "the whole thing".  You're getting the whole game.  But you're also given the option to buy a small number of other, related products.  But the game you buy for $50 is the game - that's all of it.

you are deliberately being more semantic than is necessary for this discussion.

bioware was woring on some content for the game. this content was originally intended to ship with the game. they put it asside for scheduling purposes. at the end they found they had time to complete the content. instead of completing the content they coded a merchant to sell you the conent and coded an installer to put that content in the game after you bought it.

finding this acceptable is what is irrational.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:41 .

[MrGOH]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

siodine wrote...

If I buy a game, give me the whole thing.

I'll explain it to you.

Your position is completely nonsensical.

What's in the box is what determines the extent of "the whole thing".  You're getting the whole game.  But you're also given the option to buy a small number of other, related products.  But the game you buy for $50 is the game - that's all of it.

Your position is basically this: If you buy a game for $50 dollars, and there is no other content available, then you can be happy with that game (assuming it's of adequate quality).  But, if there is other content available, then you're now unhappy with your purchase, even though you're spending exactly the same amount and getting exactly the same game.

Think about that.  Somehow the existence of other products that have no effect on your purchase is changing how you feel about that transaction.

That's nonsense.  You should be ashamed of yourself for being so irrational.

Although I didn't explicitly make your (correct) argument, I think siodine came around on this point. The discussion moved onto DLC in general and where the games industry may be headed, which is a distinct issue.

[b09boy]

the_one_54321 wrote...

i've answered all those questions already.

Not here you haven't.  What, am I supposed to research where you've answered them as well?

Modifié par b09boy, 29 octobre 2009 - 05:41 .

[the_one_54321]

b09boy wrote...

Not here you haven't.  What, am I supposed to research where you've answered them as well?

i've answered them in the very thread. heck someone even asked me one of those questions in specific, earlier, which i then answered in specific.

[Lord Clocks]

the_one_54321 wrote...


bioware was woring on some content for the game. this content was originally intended to ship with the game. they put it asside for scheduling purposes. at the end they found they had time to complete the content. instead of completing the content they coded a merchant to sell you the conent and coded an installer to put that content in the game after you bought it.

At the end they found that they could hand it off to a different team which produces stuff for at/after game release.

The MAIN team who chose not to include that content at the time went on to do all of the testing and preparation tasks that are required to release the game.

It is the DLC team who worked on that extra content and prepared it as... GASP... DLC 

The merchant and installer stuff has been there since very early on.  It wasnt implemented specifically for this one piece of DLC.  It is simply the mechanism by which you link DLC against your character.  Its been in there the whole time as DLC figured into the sales strategy very early in the process.

[SheffSteel]

Most of this thread is nothing to do with DA:O at all - it's mainly one person who wants to own original CD/DVDs and is opposed to DLC on principle.



There is no evil conspiracy here. There's no scam - except in the literal, non-pejorative sense of the word. There is a new business model for delivering content, that's all. Whether it succeeds will depend mainly on the price and quality of what's offered, and in the case of Bioware that doesn't seem to be a problem.

[the_one_54321]

Lord Clocks wrote...
It is the DLC team who worked on that extra content and prepared it as... GASP... DLC 

The merchant and installer stuff has been there since very early on.  It wasnt implemented specifically for this one piece of DLC.  It is simply the mechanism by which you link DLC against your character.  Its been in there the whole time as DLC figured into the sales strategy very early in the process.

and the whole time, they could have been working on other things.

specifically, that DLC team could have been coding the content into the game. yeah, they arent geared for that, but why does that mean they are incapable of it? 

bioware made some deliberate choices on this. those choices are my grievance.

[the_one_54321]

SheffSteel wrote...

Most of this thread is nothing to do with DA:O at all - it's mainly one person who wants to own original CD/DVDs and is opposed to DLC on principle.

yeah, i'm the only person who's not happy about this just because i have been the only person posting in this thread for the passed couple hours.

[b09boy]

the_one_54321 wrote...

b09boy wrote...

Not here you haven't.  What, am I supposed to research where you've answered them as well?

i've answered them in the very thread. heck someone even asked me one of those questions in specific, earlier, which i then answered in specific.

No you didn't.  The most you said was the merchant bit which, as explained, could have easily been thrown in before lockdown when they decided they wanted to do DLC.  If that's all you got then sorry but all you've got is conspiracy theories and too little knowledge of a development cycle to be arguing about this.