8 réponses à ce sujet

[TheStrand221]

I've gone back a few pages looking for good DW rogue builds, and found some good information, but I wanted to see what some other players experiences have been.  My basic character idea is a duelist/assassin DW rogue rather than a stealthy rogue, focusing on being a crafty and versatile DPS fighter who focuses on the biggest enemy threats / bosses while Aveline or Fenris handles the mobs.  My intention for the build is to go duelist, then assassin, since I like the defense buffs and target debuffs available in the duelist chain.  I've been playing on hard, considering going to nightmare.

I.  How does Twin Fangs damage compare to Assassinate?  How about their upgrades?  They look fairly similar damage-wise to me.  I noticed in a couple threads that some players on nightmare are just stringing these one after another to take out hard targets, which also leads me to believe that one isn't prioritized over the other.

II.  Has anyone had any success in using Throw the Gauntlet and their DPS to tank stronger enemies?  I've experimented with it a little, but mostly I've just juggled aggro back and forth between my rogue and Aveline to divide up the tanking burden.  Has anyone had much success just going toe to toe with DA2's big bads as a duelist?

III.  Has anyone struck a good balance between rogue crowd control abilities and the high damage moves?  I've found I really need to focus on specific talent trees that lack CC like Assassin and Dual Weapon in order to get the best talents.

IV.  What about stamina issues?  Has everyone found the hit = stamina regeneration and Bloodlust ability sufficient to keep stamina up, or are you chugging potions all the time?  Is Rally a worthy investment for my warrior to help with insufficient stamina issues?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[A5ko]

I. Assassinate and it's upgrade Overkill are the single biggest damage abilities you will have. Whilst Twin Fangs can put out some great damage, i've yet to see it come close to what Overkill is capable of. As you mention however, these are two moves you want to use a lot.

II. I went and upgraded Throw the Gauntlet completly to get all of the buffs for it. Whilst you obviously won't be able to deal with magical damage, physical stuff you can avoid more than you think on 'sub-bosses'. On the harder modes you may want to consider getting your fortitude up, otherwise you will find yourself in a continual loop of knockbacks until you die. I wouldn't trying to tank bosses all the time (especially magical ones) and maybe stick to what you are doing and alternate. You have some survivability by dodging attacks, but you won't be investing much into health, so if the boss get's a good attack on you it's all over.

III. I completly ignore CC and have my other party members invest in support roles and cross-class combo's. If you can kill it quick you don't need to control it.

IV. I've yet to have any issues with stamina regeneration. If you time your execution of moves right, you should always have at least one of your moves ready to go. Just be mindful not to waste explosive strikes unless you have chained first. Otherwise that burst of stamina is lost on a very weak move.

Hope some of that was helpful.

Modifié par A5ko, 17 mars 2011 - 06:33 .

[TheStrand221]

A5Ko,

Thanks for the reply, it was helpful.

I. Good to know once Assassinate is upgraded it is significantly more powerful, definitely worth the points beyond just another ability to use while Twin Fangs is on cool down.

II. I hadn't been thinking about how enemies' abilities always hit, regardless of defense, definitely something I need to be taking into account. I actually haven't had many issues with knockbacks on Hard, but I have been investing a bit into CON so that's probably helping. I've found it isn't too difficult to keep DEX and CUN about even and at the right pace to use the best weapons and armor as they become available, and also throw a few spare points into CON along the way. I also used the mortal vessel items to add to CON for the extra knockback resist and more durability. Knockback immunity items are also available I suppose, but I always feel like those total immunity to X items are overpowered.

III. Noted, I'll probably be going this route.

IV. I've been pleasantly surprised with how effective Explosive Strike seems to be when properly changed. When I picked it up I wasn't expecting much from it, but it's a good way to take out more durable mobs and lieutenants, not to mention I get knockdown effects off of it pretty regularly.

[Seloun]

Twin Fang actually does basically the same damage as Assassinate with Overkill. Assassinate the base skill is inferior to Twin Fang, but Assassinate + Annihilate allows you to CCC on Brittle; this is where Assassinate becomes the best single hit in the game (excluding Walking Bomb).

Rogue CC seems inferior to the mage alternatives. Also, Rogue stamina seems harder to replenish and more precious than equivalent mage mana. When using Assassinate and Twin Fang on CD, it's hard to maintain stamina for any utility without using pots or spending points in Willpower, even with Follow-Through. The best utility ability is probably Decoy, which you pretty much get anyway, and it's quite expensive (making other lesser utility even less viable to use).

Fully charged Explosive Strike is only about half the damage of Twin Fang. It's only really competitive within a CCC even when fully charged - however, Stagger is by far the most reliable status debuff you can apply due to Shield Bash applying it regardless of enemy rank and not being dependent on another status effect.

Modifié par Seloun, 17 mars 2011 - 07:34 .

[TheStrand221]

Seloun,

Thanks for the reply. In my limited playthrough and experimentation I've found my rogue can get off a good number of damage moves but has precious little stamina for anything else. I'd rather throw extra points to CON rather than WIL, so I guess I'll be leaving CC to Merrill. Confusion still sounds like an entertaining ability though, I'm curious how effective it actually is.

I can imagine how the combination of Twin Fangs and Overkill on an enemy I've debuffed with Mark of Doom would be awesomely lethal. Are players dropping half of boss' health with these moves? I haven't seen any rogue boss gameplay videos yet akin to the Vanguard 2h warrior ones circulating. Just looking at what's available it seems to me that rogues would be the ultimate boss killers on their own merit and just be godly with a mage and warrior setting up CCC for them, but I haven't seen anything that contends with the Vanguard play yet. Or is it just that well built 2h warriors are blowing everyone out of the water with their cleave bursts? Or is it the warrior's combination of damage, durability, and AOE that's making everyone feel they're so overpowered while rogues are just more specialized and only shine on single target damage?

[tanerb123]

could you guys post your talents? i got duelist but not sure if it really works. how do you understand if throw the gauntlet is accepted?

[Rehwyn]

Twin Fangs is always less damage than Assassinate. It's not noted in the tooltip, but Assassinate actually hits twice (as does Explosive Strike). Sometimes, however, you only see one damage number, because the game doesn't display all the damage values if there is a particularly large number of hits in a small frame of time or if your target dies from just the first hit. See below for a screenshot demonstrating both Assassinate hits.



As far as Stamina, I didn't really have problems with general groups once I had Bloodlust in Assassin. Bosses, I sometimes got a little low if I used both a lot of offensive and defensive abilities back to back and would use a potion to quickly get stamina back up for another burst. This is without Rally.

As far as CC, Decoy is a nice escape and method to relieve some pressure from the party for a bit. My absolute favorite though is a fully upgraded Fatiguing Fog. Not only does it greatly slow attack and move speed, but it Obscures all party members in the area (which is a 50% miss chance) and Disorients all enemies (which is amazing to exploit with a CCC from Aveline with upgraded Scatter). Not to mention, due to the Shadow talent my rogue gets an additional +25% crit damage while standing in it.

I already listed my abilities in this thread (
http://social.biowar...5/index/6483842) so if you want to see them, go there.

If you want a rogue gameplay boss video, I actually just uploaded one of me killing the final boss. Note that because of this it's a pretty big spoiler, but it does demonstrate how I play my rogue rather well.



As you can see, it's pretty much 1) Drop Fog 2) Mark Target 3) Own.

[ScroguBlitzen]

Twin Fang and Vendetta both do exactly half of the damage of an Overkill upgraded Assassinate.
Twin Fang's animation is longer for the retraction of your daggers afterwards so it's most useful for a finishing blow.
Vendetta has the added bonus of letting you cover ground quick AND it often will knock enemies down making it easier to finish them if they're still alive.

By Act 3 I mostly just used Dual Strike, Vendetta, Assassination and normal attacks. Occasional Cloak to remove threat. With Momentum I recharge Stamina fast enough to use all three power attacks when they're ready without any potions.

[Tang Tsu]

Just finished my first playthrough and did it without consulting any real helps on character builds. I went full Assassin / DW spec and then picked up the de-aggro talent from the subtlety spec. Most fights by act 3 went something like:

1-shot most important mob with assassinate
1-shot 2nd most with twin fangs
Backstab, backstab, repeat if anything is still alive

If its a tougher mob then assassinate + twin fangs will either drop them or leave them with a sliver. Its a great way to clear the field quickly and doesn't require a lot of +sta gear. I completely ignored all CC as a rogue and went for straight dmg. On boss mobs I open with assassinate + twin fangs followed by agro drop. As a side note, Pinpoint Strikes + Fel Poison + upgraded Haste from Anders + other atk speed enhancements is absolutely sick. Even boss mobs health will literally drain off the bar.

This may or may not be the most efficient build but its a ton of fun and incredibly satisfying.