101 réponses à ce sujet

[errant_knight]

Well, I knew part of it before--the dialogue wheel and the third person point of view in conversation. And a certain emotional exhaustion from one bad thing happening after another. But I think a bigger part of it might be that there's no character that I can truly identify with, whose ideals I share, or I just plain think is fun to talk to and I really like. They're all just so difficult, damaged, or totally unlike my good guy character. Varric comes nearest, but you don't really have the opportunity to get close. Everything is more fun when you feel really connected.

Modifié par errant_knight, 17 mars 2011 - 06:29 .

[sgreco1970]

yeah, you dont feel much like you've had any victories together and grown as a party -you always feel like a loose association.

[sylvanaerie]

I felt closest to Varric and Aveline, probably because they are the 2 you talk to the most in the game (if you talk to companions).
Plus in a non romanced game, it's Aveline who came to speak with my LadyHawke to comfort her after her loss (of mom). And the next scheduled convo with her (even if a LI is used for comfort instead) is Aveline offering a story about her dad trying to comfort you.

[Icy Magebane]

Hm... I understand the OP's point, but I have to disagree a little. I found many opportunities to bond with Varric and Avaline. In fact, it was those two that kept my wannabe-bad-guy Hawke on the straight and narrow. While I personally did not like Fenris all the time, I didn't hate him either. At the very least, talking to him repeatedly gave me a better understanding of why he hated mages so much and refused to accept that Hawke wasn't like the Tevinters until very late in the game. It was worth it to convince him of that. Finally, Carver. I have to admit that he was more of a d-bag than I expected, constantly whining and blaming Hawke for the family's problems. He even blamed him for saving his life! But in the brief conversations that he and Hawke shared, and from the party banter, they established a real connection and managed to bury the hatchet... although I was like completely in the middle of the Friend/Rival bar by the end. lol... oh well. Close enough to friends I guess.

The only ones I truly did not like are Sebastian (preachy/no ambition), Merrill (arrogant/too much ambition), Anders (obvious reasons), and Isabela (betrayal is unforgivable in RPGs). I could go into further detail, but there's no point. All those characters have fans and I'd rather not spend time bashing them and then pissing those people off. Nothing to gain from that.

So yeah, I'd say it was about half and half...

[errant_knight]

Oh, I'm not saying that there was no connection at all. The relationship with Carver felt quite real, and Aveline was a good friend. It was quite touching when she talked to Hawke after his mother's death. I liked, Sebastian, myself, but found Fenris problematic. And Anders was a friend in a 'try and keep the guy from going off the deep end' kind of way. But I still didn't feel like I had the kind of warm friendship with any of them that I had with Leliana and Alistair. Maybe it's just the difference in game mechanics, or maybe it's not being able to talk often enough, or long enough. I don't know. Well, I talked to Aveline a lot, I guess, but it was almost always about business, you know?

Modifié par errant_knight, 17 mars 2011 - 07:44 .

[Icy Magebane]

lol... yeah, Aveline was all cop. It's like "Hey Hawke, glad you stopped by. Let's go round up this criminal group I just got a tip on." "Oh um... I was just going to invite you to come to the Hanged Man with me and Varric, but... okay I guess."

Personally, I was satisfied by the amount of dialogues, but I guess I wouldn't mind a few more here and there.

[Lithuasil]

sgreco1970 wrote...

yeah, you dont feel much like you've had any victories together and grown as a party -you always feel like a loose association.

And that - being a loose association of comrades, you know like people in real life, was a massive step forward from previous bioware titles where you presumably carry your team around in pokeballs, during quick travel.

[sylvanaerie]

errant_knight wrote...

Oh, I'm not saying that there was no connection at all. The relationship with Carver felt quite real, and Aveline was a good friend. It was quite touching when she talked to Hawke after his mother's death. I liked, Sebastian, myself, but found Fenris problematic. And Anders was a friend in a 'try and keep the guy from going off the deep end' kind of way. But I still didn't feel like I had the kind of warm friendship with any of them that I had with Leliana and Alistair. Maybe it's just the difference in game mechanics, or maybe it's not being able to talk often enough, or long enough. I don't know. Well, I talked to Aveline a lot, I guess, but it was almost always about business, you know?

You get a few quests from her but there's also kind of her 'big sisterly' ways toward Hawke. She says she knows you're not a child but she feels Hawke is family and she feels she should watch over him/her.  I never got a 'it's just business' vibe from her, I always felt she cared about Hawke and the people of her new home she feels protective of (and she is the only companion who has her own love life quest that you can help with which I ENJOYED the HELL out of!)
Varric had me laughing even when I knew 5 minutes later I was going to hit a sad part in the story.  Everything that came out of his mouth was gold.

[errant_knight]

Lithuasil wrote...

sgreco1970 wrote...

yeah, you dont feel much like you've had any victories together and grown as a party -you always feel like a loose association.

And that - being a loose association of comrades, you know like people in real life, was a massive step forward from previous bioware titles where you presumably carry your team around in pokeballs, during quick travel.

Well, maybe titles I haven't played, but not Origins. That felt very close, at least to me.

[Merced652]

Not sure how people can defend the companion system as it is in da2. You must be able to bond with your dresser if you can these bros.

[Lithuasil]

errant_knight wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

sgreco1970 wrote...

yeah, you dont feel much like you've had any victories together and grown as a party -you always feel like a loose association.

And that - being a loose association of comrades, you know like people in real life, was a massive step forward from previous bioware titles where you presumably carry your team around in pokeballs, during quick travel.

Well, maybe titles I haven't played, but not Origins. That felt very close, at least to me.

Aside from a little bit from alistair and morrigan, none of the party members had any impact on the plot. They didn't move a single inch from the camping spot where you left them, did nothing, didn't fix their own mess ever, and only once voluntarily talked to me. They were interesting pokemon yes, but nonetheless, they were just assets to help you kill stuff, as opposed to persons.

[Icy Magebane]

Merced652 wrote...

Not sure how people can defend the companion system as it is in da2. You must be able to bond with your dresser if you can these bros.

What?  Did you actually spend any time with Varric?  That was pure bromance.  Well whatever... I guess some people expected more than they got, but I got more than I expected, at least with a few of the characters.

[errant_knight]

sylvanaerie wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Oh, I'm not saying that there was no connection at all. The relationship with Carver felt quite real, and Aveline was a good friend. It was quite touching when she talked to Hawke after his mother's death. I liked, Sebastian, myself, but found Fenris problematic. And Anders was a friend in a 'try and keep the guy from going off the deep end' kind of way. But I still didn't feel like I had the kind of warm friendship with any of them that I had with Leliana and Alistair. Maybe it's just the difference in game mechanics, or maybe it's not being able to talk often enough, or long enough. I don't know. Well, I talked to Aveline a lot, I guess, but it was almost always about business, you know?

You get a few quests from her but there's also kind of her 'big sisterly' ways toward Hawke. She says she knows you're not a child but she feels Hawke is family and she feels she should watch over him/her.  I never got a 'it's just business' vibe from her, I always felt she cared about Hawke and the people of her new home she feels protective of (and she is the only companion who has her own love life quest that you can help with which I ENJOYED the HELL out of!)
Varric had me laughing even when I knew 5 minutes later I was going to hit a sad part in the story.  Everything that came out of his mouth was gold.

Maybe I'm not communicating well on this. I felt like Aveline cared, but the conversations mostly felt like , okay big sister is probably a good way to put it--caring lectures. Bit there waere a lot of business ones, too. I thought her quest was quite amusing, but it was also a little bittersweet since my Hawke had been flirting with her. Anyway, I got a feeling of caring, but not intimacy, and I don't mean that in a romantic way.

Varric was a good friend, and he was probably the most fun character to be around. His loyalty was clear, but.... I don't know. I just didn't feel as close to them.

[errant_knight]

Lithuasil wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

sgreco1970 wrote...

yeah, you dont feel much like you've had any victories together and grown as a party -you always feel like a loose association.

And that - being a loose association of comrades, you know like people in real life, was a massive step forward from previous bioware titles where you presumably carry your team around in pokeballs, during quick travel.

Well, maybe titles I haven't played, but not Origins. That felt very close, at least to me.

Aside from a little bit from alistair and morrigan, none of the party members had any impact on the plot. They didn't move a single inch from the camping spot where you left them, did nothing, didn't fix their own mess ever, and only once voluntarily talked to me. They were interesting pokemon yes, but nonetheless, they were just assets to help you kill stuff, as opposed to persons.

Okay, I just completely disagree with you. We're not going to find any common ground here.

[Clonedzero]

what i really liked about the DA2 party was that they felt like a dysfunctional family of close-friends while the DA:O party felt like more of a collection of adventurers who otherwise wouldnt be involved with each other but are united by a common goal.

seeing the party members interacting with each other in cutscenes without you added ALOT to the whole party dynamic i think.

[errant_knight]

Clonedzero wrote...

what i really liked about the DA2 party was that they felt like a dysfunctional family of close-friends while the DA:O party felt like more of a collection of adventurers who otherwise wouldnt be involved with each other but are united by a common goal.

seeing the party members interacting with each other in cutscenes without you added ALOT to the whole party dynamic i think.

I don't disagree about that, but it doesn't have much relation to feeling close to them.

[Clonedzero]

Lithuasil wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Lithuasil wrote...

sgreco1970 wrote...

yeah, you dont feel much like you've had any victories together and grown as a party -you always feel like a loose association.

And that - being a loose association of comrades, you know like people in real life, was a massive step forward from previous bioware titles where you presumably carry your team around in pokeballs, during quick travel.

Well, maybe titles I haven't played, but not Origins. That felt very close, at least to me.

Aside from a little bit from alistair and morrigan, none of the party members had any impact on the plot. They didn't move a single inch from the camping spot where you left them, did nothing, didn't fix their own mess ever, and only once voluntarily talked to me. They were interesting pokemon yes, but nonetheless, they were just assets to help you kill stuff, as opposed to persons.

i agree with you actually. morrigan and alistair were the only ones that actually mattered. Sten was utterly pointless aside from learning more about the qunari which had no real role in DA:O. zevran was pointless aside from learning about the crows and antiva, shale was pointless to the story, leliana could be argued to be more important, wynne was kind of irritating because i think i had about 1 conversation with her where she wasnt scolding me the entire time but again added nothing significant to the story.

like you said, most of the cast of DA:O could be deleted and have pretty much no real impact on the game itself. the only character i think that could be removed from DA2 that wouldnt effect the plot is fenris.

[sylvanaerie]

Well you do only get a few conversations with them over the span of 10 years time and you have to use your imagination to fill in the blanks. For some of them it was easy for me (like Aveline and Varric) for others it was a lot harder (Merrill and Carver i never did feel close to).
The romances felt worse. Sebastian you can't trigger at all till Act 3 (though I think an Act 2 convo has a flirt). Outside of Aveline and Varric I probably felt closest to him because he has that family feel whenever you interact with him and Elthina. The Fenris romance left me ...meh...10 years we sleep once, fight, then he doesn't even say 'im sorry' for three freaking years? What's up with that???
But for friendships, I guess they are okay...I sometimes don't see my best friend for months at a time and when we get together it's like we just spoke yesterday, taking right up where we left off.
Most likely also you played DAO more than once and that ups the familiarity factor as you get comfortable with the companions you are most around. I'm on my third playthrough of DA2 and I'll be romancing Isabella this time. (Merrill and Anders don't interest me much that way). Normally I take the LI with me whereever I go but frankly for a rogue I prefer Varric so she's just there to keep the barstool warm for when i get into the Hanged man.

[errant_knight]

I think it's odd that you're rating the characters based on plot impact rather than interaction, personality, or how much fun they added to the game. How does that have anything to do with this?

[ginzaen]

i liked all the companions apart from sebastion. on my male character first play through i found anders creepy-, as female character he wasnt so bad.

[Lithuasil]

errant_knight wrote...

Okay, I just completely disagree with you. We're not going to find any common ground here.

I don't think we're as far apart as you think - I don't argue they were uninteresting in Origins (except for Sten) or didn't have rich personalities (except for Sten). But the moment they met the Warden, their life ended, and the next year they spend waiting in a campsite, for the warden to bring them along.
The companions in DA2 on the other hand, lead their own lives. I can see them interacting without me interfering, I can hear them talk about it. If I can't be bothered to say, help varric kick his brothers chin, or if I don't help Aveline become guardcaptain, they still manage - some things turn out differently, but they manage. If one of my companions had a problem in Origins, it remained unfixed until I did it myself. If it makes any sense to phrase like this - Hawke is a large part of her companions lives, but the warden was the only thing in her companions lives for a year.

[Clonedzero]

errant_knight wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

what i really liked about the DA2 party was that they felt like a dysfunctional family of close-friends while the DA:O party felt like more of a collection of adventurers who otherwise wouldnt be involved with each other but are united by a common goal.

seeing the party members interacting with each other in cutscenes without you added ALOT to the whole party dynamic i think.

I don't disagree about that, but it doesn't have much relation to feeling close to them.

well of course it does. the way the DA2 party members were handled was alot better. they felt like actual people and their entire dialogue sequences couldnt be done in one sitting like they could in DA:O lol. which made the relationships feel alot more real to me.

i remember my first DA:O playthrough i was so eager to talk to everyone all the time i burnt through their entire dialogue trees/sequences like before i even made it halfway through the game so no one ever had anything new to say and it really bummed me out and completely ruined the whole feeling of being actual friends with them or them being real people since they were completely spent dialogue wise so half the game they barely said anything to me so it felt really weird. DA2 sorta forces that to be more spread out and gradual which i think is a good thing.

[Merced652]

I, and i'm sure many others, would appreciate someone going through and counting per companion how many unique conversations can be had. As in ones that take place at their little base, this of course can include gifts. I'm virtually willing to guarantee that every single companion in DAO had more with the exception of sten. Hell the damn dog had at least 5 unique conversation scenes in DAO.

And please don't prattle about quality over quantity because at best you might be able to argue it to a stalemate.

Modifié par Merced652, 17 mars 2011 - 08:15 .

[errant_knight]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Well you do only get a few conversations with them over the span of 10 years time and you have to use your imagination to fill in the blanks. For some of them it was easy for me (like Aveline and Varric) for others it was a lot harder (Merrill and Carver i never did feel close to).
The romances felt worse. Sebastian you can't trigger at all till Act 3 (though I think an Act 2 convo has a flirt). Outside of Aveline and Varric I probably felt closest to him because he has that family feel whenever you interact with him and Elthina. The Fenris romance left me ...meh...10 years we sleep once, fight, then he doesn't even say 'im sorry' for three freaking years? What's up with that???
But for friendships, I guess they are okay...I sometimes don't see my best friend for months at a time and when we get together it's like we just spoke yesterday, taking right up where we left off.
Most likely also you played DAO more than once and that ups the familiarity factor as you get comfortable with the companions you are most around. I'm on my third playthrough of DA2 and I'll be romancing Isabella this time. (Merrill and Anders don't interest me much that way). Normally I take the LI with me whereever I go but frankly for a rogue I prefer Varric so she's just there to keep the barstool warm for when i get into the Hanged man.

It's not familiarity. I was as close to them on the first playthrough as on my last. Okay, Sten took a second playthrough, and I still haven't managed much of a friendship with Zevran, but it's not familiarity.

[Icy Magebane]

Well... I don't exactly share the opinion that importance to the plot makes them more interesting companions. In fact, I disagree with just about everything that's been said on that point. All of the companions initiated conversations at one point or another, and they all at least gave opinions during missions... it wasn't as involved as DA2, but keep in mind that we're talking about the first game in the series. Obviously they would build on the companion dynamics they started with DA:O. Bioware hadn't thought of putting everyone in their own part of town so they stood around the camp. Etc...