101 réponses à ce sujet

[Darker_than_black]

I think one reason that I felt distanced from my companions was that it is not possible to initate dialouge when you choose so in this game, only when the companions "feel like talking".

In a relationship (whether romantic, friendly or rival) it doesn't make sence for one character to always wait for the other to be ready to talk. Also in Origins it felt like you got to know much more about the companions, because you could ask them a lot more.

[Wompoo]

The companions in DA2 were quite frankly the best the writers at BW have created so far (imo), their banter and their stories and a feeling of not only being friends but also being an extended family.

Varric say: Daisy will you stop walking through Lowtown at night.
Merrill replies: oh I,m perfectly safe Varric... and poor Varric says yes, I know and it is costing me a fortune.

The game has many of these little exchanges which added so much more to the game then any previous BW title for me (actually it felt similar to BG2). I was never a fan of DA:O's copamions and over all they were as forgetable as a stale flat beer.

The VO actors for Merrill and Varric were excellent, loved them. I hope to see more of them and Aveline in the future.

[TobiTobsen]

Wompoo wrote...

The companions in DA2 were quite frankly the best the writers at BW have created so far (imo), their banter and their stories and a feeling of not only being friends but also being an extended family.

Varric say: Daisy will you stop walking through Lowtown at night.
Merrill replies: oh I,m perfectly safe Varric... and poor Varric says yes, I know and it is costing me a fortune.

The game has many of these little exchanges which added so much more to the game then any previous BW title for me (actually it felt similar to BG2). I was never a fan of DA:O's copamions and over all they were as forgetable as a stale flat beer.

The VO actors for Merrill and Varric were excellent, loved them. I hope to see more of them and Aveline in the future.

Exactly!
I love the fact that the companions form friendships themself and the banter was much better imo than the one in DAO. Aveline and Isabelas forming friendship over the years, Varrics protecting of Merrill, or Bethany and Isabelas "Bees and Flower" talk. Just loved all the banter.
And David Gaider said in another thread that the companions in DA2 have the same amount of dialogue as the folks from Origin. It's just more spread out over the whole game. I always hated the fact that I could talk to Alistair about everysingle topic in his dialogue tree right from the start and with the help of one or two gifts had nothing to talk about for the whole rest of the game.

[Harorrd]

Sten and Alister was the only chars from Orgines that i could relate to, in this game...well...none, they all have unholy agendas except the captain of the guards, she is just plain boring

[Tigress M]

*waves hello to errant*

I have very mixed feelings about the companion interaction in DA2. Like Errant, I didn't end my first playthrough feeling as connected with them as I felt at the end of my first Origin playthrough. For me, like so many others, it was the limited interaction. I actually LIKED not being able to enter cutscenes with them while exploring (got really tired of getting blood-spattered roses from Alistair in DAO thanks to misclicks after fights). BUT, I would have much preferred being able to go visit them and chat about something *I* wanted to talk about, at least once an act.

What I'd really like to see is a combination of Origins and DA2 in the companion interactions in DA3. To me, a perfect system would be something like this:

-- Give us more companion interaction. Let us go visit them for a chat when we feel like it AS WELL as when they want to talk. A combination of PC initiated chats and NPC initiated chats would go really far in helping to build a connection, I think.
-- Give us more companion reaction (especially LI) to events. (I was very very pleased to see Hawke's LI come console her after her mother died. I want more of this!)
-- Keep it coming with the party banter.  DA2 improved on an already awesome aspect of DAO and I just want to see more of it.
-- Have our LI's make a few moves once in awhile (give us a rose or recite bad poetry).
-- Restrict conversations to home or camp.
-- Continue to allow us glimpses of our friends interacting with each other.  This was a great addition to DA2.
-- Let us keep friends who agree to disagree (I really like the rivalry as opposed to the hate stuff in DAO).

Modifié par Tigress M, 17 mars 2011 - 01:15 .

[ejoslin]

Tigress M wrote...

*waves hello to errant*

I have very mixed feelings about the companion interaction in DA2. Like Errant, I didn't end my first playthrough feeling as connected with them and I felt at the end of my first Origin playthrough. For me, like so many others, it was the limited interaction. I actually LIKED not being able to enter cutscenes with them while exploring (got really tired of getting blood-spattered roses from Alistair in DAO thanks to misclicks after fights). BUT, I would have much preferred being able to go visit them and chat about something *I* wanted to talk about, at least once an act.

What I'd really like to see is a combination of Origins and DA2 in the companion interactions in DA3. To me, a perfect system would be something like this:

-- Give us more companion interaction. Let us go visit them for a chat when we feel like it AS WELL as when they want to talk. A combination of PC initiated chats and NPC initiated chats would go really far in helping to build a connection, I think.
-- Give us more companion reaction (especially LI) to events. (I was very very pleased to see Hawke's LI come console her after her mother died. I want more of this!)
-- Have our LI's make a few moves once in awhile (give us a rose or recite bad poetry).
-- Restrict conversations to home or camp.
-- Let us keep friends who agree to disagree (I really like the rivalry as opposed to the hate stuff in DAO).

I agree with this, but I wanted to add that i vastly preferred getting to know the small things about our characters and their likes and dislikes through the companion banter.  I thought tha twas a great touch!  But yes, when the LI came to console Hawke, that was one of the most touching moments in the game.

[azarhal]

I much preferred DA2 companions interactions. They got their own life and it doesn't resolve around the player character. They also feel like a group of friends and can feel like friends of the player if you allow it too.

I mostly liked the banter and seeing conversation between the companions without the player. Like all the stuff Varric and Aveline are doing to keep the others from troubles.

[Tigress M]

@ejoslin - Thank you! I loved the banter and felt it was really improved in DA2. Will edit my post to reflect that.

@azarhal - I, too, liked that they had their own lives and like you, I really enjoyed seeing them interact with each other in those cutscenes where we go to visit them.

[hawat333]

I might also add that we don't have such insight to their real character and past, only the reflectation of it. It always helps a lot. In DA:O we learn their desires, their fears, their regrets, here we have only the chance to peek into their character.
I wouldn't say they are less interesting companions, but it's a fact you don't have the opportunity to get really close to them.
Varric is the closest, I agree, and that's why he is a favourite of mine.

Modifié par hawat333, 17 mars 2011 - 01:17 .

[Tigress M]

hawat333 wrote...
I wouldn't say they are less interesting companions, but it's a fact you don't have the opportunity to get really close to them.

I totally agree.  The characters are interesting.  Very interesting.  And I actually enjoyed them all.  I just didn't feel like I got much of a chance to know them.  

[RagingCyclone]

I think I felt this way because the banters being 2/3 their personality, I felt more like I was listening to people in a crowded hallway than someone I was supposed to know. The lack of one on one cummunication made them become hollow and shallow as companions. Instead of being friends, they were strangers. Some people will disagree, but they were well written quest givers, but poor companions. If I didn't have the option to take them with me, I could care less about them.

[basbaker]

RagingCyclone wrote...

I think I felt this way because the banters being 2/3 their personality, I felt more like I was listening to people in a crowded hallway than someone I was supposed to know. The lack of one on one cummunication made them become hollow and shallow as companions. Instead of being friends, they were strangers. Some people will disagree, but they were well written quest givers, but poor companions. If I didn't have the option to take them with me, I could care less about them.

I agree with this to a certain extent.

For me, the disconnect with the companions comes from how they're presented.  I'm mostly over comparing this game to Origins because it's quite frankly a completely different animal, no matter what the dev team said about it still being Dragon Age.  They have a different understanding of what constitutes Dragon Age than a lot of the fan base, from what I'm reading on the forums lately.  But that's another topic.  As far as the companions though, I can draw on what I liked about my companions in Origins to explain why I didn't feel as close to my Champion's friends.

The characters in DA:O for the most part seemed like real people.  They had problems and agendas, but it wasn't all that you got to see of them.  Zevran had humor and wit and, on the surface, a devil-may-care attitude toward the world.  This defined him.  Alistair was also very witty, and was sweet and charming albeit sometimes irritatingly naive.  But another layer showed that he was given to introspection, and had a serious bent that he didn't let just anyone see.  He was an honest, good person that most people felt a kinship with.  His personality defined him.  Morrigan was icy, intelligent and very jaded, but through learning about her and listening to her, you gradually learned that she was much more than met the eye.  These qualities defined her.  I could go on.  The point is that they were people and I felt something for them because I saw something in their personalities that drew me in, whether good or bad.

The characters in DA2, with the exception of Varric and Aveline and I suppose Isabella, seem like causes.  Fenris is the anti-slavery, anti-mage cause.  Sure, you get to find out why and you can sympathize or not, but the cause defines him.  Anders is all about the plight of the mages and it defines him to the extent that he isn't even human anymore.  Merrill is of course all about her clan and blindly pursuing any means to achieve her personal goal.  Again, it's a cause that defines her.  Sebastian is all about the Chantry even though he's constantly conflicted about it and sometimes acts in direct opposition to its teachings.  But still, his association with the Chantry more or less defines him.

It's not a coincidence that so many people choose Varric and Aveline as their favorite characters.  Those two aren't about causes.  They're people first, and causes second - if they even champion a cause.  Varric is a loyal friend no matter how much **** flies in the course of Hawke's time in Kirkwall.  Isabella also is a strong personality first and foremost.  The more I've played the game, the more I've enjoyed Isabella.

Don't get me wrong - the characters have excellent stories, are well-written and performed and overall enjoyable.  But I will never feel the attachment for them in DA2 that I felt with the companions in Origins.  They have really sucked the personality right out of the majority of the companions except for during their banter.  I find it hard to identify with people or characters that are so driven by one obsessive thing that there is almost nothing left of them to give.

[Tigress M]

RagingCyclone wrote...

I think I felt this way because the banters being 2/3 their personality, I felt more like I was listening to people in a crowded hallway than someone I was supposed to know. The lack of one on one cummunication made them become hollow and shallow as companions. Instead of being friends, they were strangers. Some people will disagree, but they were well written quest givers, but poor companions. If I didn't have the option to take them with me, I could care less about them.

Hi Rage!!  

Yes, I agree.  The banter was great, but I really missed being able to interact with them more.  I did like how much the contributed to the questing conversations, where you could ask them for their imput a bit, but I really wanted to be able to go sit down with Fenris and chat over a bottle of wine, or listen in on one of Varric's tales in the Hanged Man, or take a walk with Sebastian and learn more of his past, or freak out in Merrill's house the first time I saw the mirror (okay, might be OOC there, but you get the idea LOL).  In short, I wanted to get to know them better and I didn't really get that chance.  

[Melra]

The main reason I loved this game, was because of the companions and that I could actually talk to them, in DA:O the mute character was soo painful for me. I didn't feel connected to other characters at all, when comparing to DA2.

I hope they follow this route in the future.

[Tigress M]

basbaker wrote...
It's not a coincidence that so many people choose Varric and Aveline as their favorite characters.  Those two aren't about causes.  They're people first, and causes second - if they even champion a cause.  

This.  In a game where we're allowed to have companions, I want to be able to get to know them better.  As people, not quests.  

[Tigress M]

@Melrache - I, too, enjoyed the voiced PC. I just wish the cost of having that hadn't wound up being less dialog with those travelling with us.

I know there's a limit to what can be done in a game due to money, time, etc. I'd just have liked to have been to have a little more freedom in my interactions with my companions... even just one Hawke initiated dialog with them per act would have helped a great deal, I think.

[Medhia Nox]

I thought there was a lot of strength behind these NPCs - especially in the already mentioned department of their inter-character banter. It grew - and characters you kept in the party for a long time really seemed to form relationships of their own. That I enjoyed.

I've listed this before - and this is what I miss.

Sten: Arguing philosophy - The Qun vs. Character - breaking through his exterior until he finally comes to admire you and admits that he might be wrong about certain things (I believe he admits he might be wrong about mages)

Liliana: Listening to her bardic tales - and her own past. Talking about her belief in the Maker and how absolutely pure it is - and whether or not you think she's nutters or you believe in her and the Maker

Zevran: Listening to him talk about death, being an assassin, and his various jobs - and then talking about things like love and seeing him change because of it.

Wynne: My God, I didn't realize what a treat this NPC was until my second playthrough. She's wise - and she's cautious. She's had pain - and she tries her utmost to impart that wisdom. She failed a student - she took in a spirit of faith just like Anders ( I know his is justice) - BUT she didn't corrupt it, she stayed true and pure. I loved her character.

Shale: Her comedy was great - her rediscovery of the fact that she was a dwarf is excellent. Her one golem war on pigeon-kind is righteous!

Morrigan and Alistair I hated - but their conversations were extremely involved (perhaps the most?)

=====

We don't get those moments with these NPCs. A just "You and Me" moment.

So:

Awesome private quests (both Origins and 2) + Excellent party banter (Good in Origins, better in 2) + "You and Me" dialogue (Origins only) = even better NPCs for DA: 3

Modifié par Medhia Nox, 17 mars 2011 - 02:49 .

[Chthonic]

It's true, the party members in this game are more human IMO. Even the main character is less of a hero and more of an exceptional and luckey person. Yet at the same time, they are very stubborn and unstable.

The people that choose to help you do so for their own reasons. They seem like 'causes', but I think that is the reason they stand out from the crowd and end up working with you - because they have some all-consuming passion that prevents them from steping back and just living a regular life. Because it's not the darkspawn sweeping everyone up and forcing them to fight or die here, but rather a story of those who chose to fight despite the perfectly reasonable alternative not to.

In a blight/disaster the people fighting are regular people. In peacetime, the people fighting tend to be a bit unstable and angsty. Otherwise they would just get jobs like regular people.

Sword+board comes closest to being just a regular person, being that she helps you just as a function of her job and your history together.

Merill, if not for the blood magic, would not have left the Wood Elves. If she wasn't crazy and alone, even after, she would have just settled into a regular life in the city.

2hand could have gone into hiding and never have been seen again, except for his hatred of mages and dedication to getting his own revenge.

Anders could have given you the maps and buggered off, but he had an agenda and needed to use you.

Etc.

[AlexXIV]

Lithuasil wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Custodire wrote...

I think it derives from not having a mutual goal. In DA:O, right from the beginning, Alistair and Morrigan joined you in uniting the races and saving the world. In DA2, they're just hanging out at the city waiting for something to happen.

Survival and rising to power, changing and shaping up things can be a mutual goal. Thing is just in the 7 years you don't feel that you change much in Kirkwall at all. May be because you actually don't.

Assuming you yourself have spent the last seven years in the same place - what impact did you have on your hometown in that time? Where is it set in stone, that the world may no longer be the same (wait, it isn't) because one of thousands of refugees has a camera floating behind her head? 
The Warden was a hero, hawke is a person. Deal with it.

I don't know where the hostility is comming from, I take it fanboy/girl rage?

And to answer you, you are wrong. Hawke is not a normal person. At least not if I am any measure for a normal person. Hawke is a hero, just like the Warden.

'Hurdled into the chaos you fight, and shape the world before you.'

That's what Flemeth says. I can't see this prophecy come true in DA2 though.

It was rather like 'Hurdled into the chaos you fight, and unwittingly help someone to start a war.'

Modifié par AlexXIV, 17 mars 2011 - 03:25 .

[Medhia Nox]

You are really just a witness to the events unfolding around you in this game.

Isabela does her thing no matter what you do.

Anders does his thing no matter what you do.

Those two actually cause the storyline of Dragon Age 2 (though I do like the game).

[Lithuasil]

AlexXIV wrote...


I don't know where the hostility is comming from, I take it fanboy/girl rage?

And to answer you, you are wrong. Hawke is not a normal person. At least not if I am any measure for a normal person. Hawke is a hero, just like the Warden.

'Hurdled into the chaos you fight, and shape the world before you.'

That's what Flemeth says. I can't see this prophecy come true in DA2 though.

It was rather like 'Hurdled into the chaos you fight, and unwittingly help someone to start a war.'

What hostility? I was merely pointing out that you expect way too much when saying hawke should've changed Kirkwall even more then she did, for no reason other then living there - a lot of people do that.

And in your conclusion, you discover one of the central points of my argument - The Warden was hurdled into chaos, and fixed everything with either rose petals and happyness, or bloody rage and violent murder, to inevitably slay the archdemon at long last.
Hawke is hurdled into chaos, she fights, struggles to fix some things, and in the end ****s up big time. Hawke might not be a normal person, she's trying, of course, but she's a person, and therefore lacks the Sword "of satisfying solutions, heroic sacrifice and happy ending" that all heroes come preequipped with. Now let's hope the last layers of plot armor that hawke still wears get removed for the next DA protagonist - we're getting there.

[AlexXIV]

Lithuasil wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...


I don't know where the hostility is comming from, I take it fanboy/girl rage?

And to answer you, you are wrong. Hawke is not a normal person. At least not if I am any measure for a normal person. Hawke is a hero, just like the Warden.

'Hurdled into the chaos you fight, and shape the world before you.'

That's what Flemeth says. I can't see this prophecy come true in DA2 though.

It was rather like 'Hurdled into the chaos you fight, and unwittingly help someone to start a war.'

What hostility? I was merely pointing out that you expect way too much when saying hawke should've changed Kirkwall even more then she did, for no reason other then living there - a lot of people do that.

And in your conclusion, you discover one of the central points of my argument - The Warden was hurdled into chaos, and fixed everything with either rose petals and happyness, or bloody rage and violent murder, to inevitably slay the archdemon at long last.
Hawke is hurdled into chaos, she fights, struggles to fix some things, and in the end ****s up big time. Hawke might not be a normal person, she's trying, of course, but she's a person, and therefore lacks the Sword "of satisfying solutions, heroic sacrifice and happy ending" that all heroes come preequipped with. Now let's hope the last layers of plot armor that hawke still wears get removed for the next DA protagonist - we're getting there.

Well if you didn't mean to be hostile I apologize for assuming that. 'Deal with it.' always does have this effect on me though.

I am pretty sure the next protagonist will be Hawke, and that this is problable the reason she was so streamlined. If they planned a new protagonist in the next game they could have given us alot more choices, and I think the main reason why the Warden wasn't protagonist in the sequel was for once the multiple origins and races, the art change, and the fact that she didn't even have a VO.

[Lithuasil]

AlexXIV wrote...


Well if you didn't mean to be hostile I apologize for assuming that. 'Deal with it.' always does have this effect on me though.

I am pretty sure the next protagonist will be Hawke, and that this is problable the reason she was so streamlined. If they planned a new protagonist in the next game they could have given us alot more choices, and I think the main reason why the Warden wasn't protagonist in the sequel was for once the multiple origins and races, the art change, and the fact that she didn't even have a VO.

The deal with it part was aimed not so much at you specifically, as it was aimed at all the people who give the game flak for not being "zomg epic" enough. (Which in turn annoy me to no end, and may feel free to take offense).
And I at least hope we won't see hawke again, and instead start of with someone new, in a similar position, only less far above the law.

[errant_knight]

Stop that. No one has to deal with anything. Go be generally annoyed somwhere else. This is about connecting with the companions.

Modifié par errant_knight, 17 mars 2011 - 04:19 .

[Night Prowler76]

Darker_than_black wrote...

I think one reason that I felt distanced from my companions was that it is not possible to initate dialouge when you choose so in this game, only when the companions "feel like talking".

In a relationship (whether romantic, friendly or rival) it doesn't make sence for one character to always wait for the other to be ready to talk. Also in Origins it felt like you got to know much more about the companions, because you could ask them a lot more.

This exactly, not being able to talk, even if its idle chit chat whenver you like really killed building the companion relationships for me anyways, I mean who didnt like sneaking a kiss once in a while when you were out on the road in Origins lol