101 réponses à ce sujet

[errant_knight]

Tigress M wrote...

*waves hello to errant*

I have very mixed feelings about the companion interaction in DA2. Like Errant, I didn't end my first playthrough feeling as connected with them as I felt at the end of my first Origin playthrough. For me, like so many others, it was the limited interaction. I actually LIKED not being able to enter cutscenes with them while exploring (got really tired of getting blood-spattered roses from Alistair in DAO thanks to misclicks after fights). BUT, I would have much preferred being able to go visit them and chat about something *I* wanted to talk about, at least once an act.

What I'd really like to see is a combination of Origins and DA2 in the companion interactions in DA3. To me, a perfect system would be something like this:

-- Give us more companion interaction. Let us go visit them for a chat when we feel like it AS WELL as when they want to talk. A combination of PC initiated chats and NPC initiated chats would go really far in helping to build a connection, I think.
-- Give us more companion reaction (especially LI) to events. (I was very very pleased to see Hawke's LI come console her after her mother died. I want more of this!)
-- Keep it coming with the party banter.  DA2 improved on an already awesome aspect of DAO and I just want to see more of it.
-- Have our LI's make a few moves once in awhile (give us a rose or recite bad poetry).
-- Restrict conversations to home or camp.
-- Continue to allow us glimpses of our friends interacting with each other.  This was a great addition to DA2.
-- Let us keep friends who agree to disagree (I really like the rivalry as opposed to the hate stuff in DAO).

Hi Tigress! I'd agree with you about most of that except that I much prefer the option to talk outside of camp, making some things more immediate. For example, it worked much better for me to ask Alistair why he didn't tell be about his lineage while we were still in Redcliffe spending the day getting ready for the siege, than waiting until we got back to camp. And after repeated playthroughs, sometimes I just wanted to mix it up. It kept the game from feeling exactly the same on every playthrough, even while taking a similar path.

I'm not sure how I feel about the rivalry thing. It worked well with Carver, but I never really got why Fenris stuck around.

[RagingCyclone]

Melrache wrote...

The main reason I loved this game, was because of the companions and that I could actually talk to them, in DA:O the mute character was soo painful for me. I didn't feel connected to other characters at all, when comparing to DA2.

I hope they follow this route in the future.

For me it's the opposite. With the silent pc I can let my imagination take over and I end up being more immersed because my own inner voice supplies the tone, inflection, and attiitude of the dialogue. But with a voiced pc that is taken away. So instead of losing myself in the character and actually become a part of the story myself, I just end up going through the motions with someone else's voice taking me out of the equation.  The silent hero is the reason that Half Life 2 is still my all time favorite game. But I also understand that the voiced pc is most likely the way of the future of the genre. It makes me sad, but I can accept it to a point. I just know that in future games like this I will be interested for a while, and then lose said interest because it's someone else's story, and my imagination will be blocked from letting it become something more.

[DAOME2FTW]

Varric had the appearance of some sort of best friend, which I really liked, and your sibling, Carver or Bethany, I felt close to as they were your sibling. However most of the other companions seemed a bit distant, they do not live up to Origins characters, they tell you absolutely nothing... Also, the romances? Isabella told my character she loved me and then... Nothing? Is that it?

[Invalidcode]

Hmm, some good points from all the posters.

I felt pretty close with Varric, if my Hawke want to sit down and have a drink, he would be the first one I call.
Merrill too but she's my Male Hawke LI so it feel natural.
Aveline, the type of friend you can truly trust.
Never felt too close with Anders, but he isn't bad.
Fernis: Full rivalry, but it is good rivalry!
Isabela: You want me to turn my back now to let you stab me in the back or you want to do it later?

Compare to DA:O, very different, DA2 Hawke gets the chance to develop a normal, everyday life friendship with them. DA:O it is, 'Ok let's work our hardest otherwise GG everyone! Just want to know I glad me met!!' Before they charge into the DS.

[Branclem]

It makes sense that the companion interaction models are quite different between the games, given the circumstances. In DA:O the companions are traveling on a journey with you all the time and they can't exactly go off and do their own stuff - they're stuck with you until the AD is slain. In DA2 the story is taking place over the course of a decade, and the companions are only traveling with you when you actually have them in the party. The rest of the time they have their own lives in Kirkwall; they aren't just rotting in camp like the DA:O companions would have been.

[da0Xeffect2]

I wished my friends were more like these characters. Except for blowing up chantry's, summoning demons, and what not. There personalities were great for me. I liked Merrill a lot. I felt like I had to protect her from herself the whole time and I liked it.

[errant_knight]

da0Xeffect2 wrote...

I wished my friends were more like these characters. Except for blowing up chantry's, summoning demons, and what not. There personalities were great for me. I liked Merrill a lot. I felt like I had to protect her from herself the whole time and I liked it.

I didn't say I didn't like them. I like some of them quite a bit. I said I didn't feel as connected/close to them, and am trying to pinpoint why. Different thing.

[da0Xeffect2]

errant_knight wrote...

da0Xeffect2 wrote...

I wished my friends were more like these characters. Except for blowing up chantry's, summoning demons, and what not. There personalities were great for me. I liked Merrill a lot. I felt like I had to protect her from herself the whole time and I liked it.

I didn't say I didn't like them. I like some of them quite a bit. I said I didn't feel as connected/close to them, and am trying to pinpoint why. Different thing.

I didn't say you didn't either. Just pointing out I liked them a lot.

[Statulos]

errant_knight wrote...

Well, I knew part of it before--the dialogue wheel and the third person point of view in conversation. And a certain emotional exhaustion from one bad thing happening after another. But I think a bigger part of it might be that there's no character that I can truly identify with, whose ideals I share, or I just plain think is fun to talk to and I really like. They're all just so difficult, damaged, or totally unlike my good guy character. Varric comes nearest, but you don't really have the opportunity to get close. Everything is more fun when you feel really connected.

That is not a mistake; at all. Feeling unconnected to characters is actually a theatrical tecnique Bertol Brecht used a lot called Verfremdungseffekt.

The trick means that the whole plot and its parts make you feel alien, so instead of catharticaly connecting (like Aristotle´s theory of theatre) you get distanced archiving a better insight of what is going on.

[KenKenpachi]

Hmm, Varric and Aveline are the only ones I haven't felt a need to turn on honestly, or felt they would turn on me. All the others I have "fine I'll work with you but you worry me, so I got this knife" deal going on.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I wouldn't say I felt distanced from the companions. Though I have to ask, but "I", you mean yourself as a player or your Hawke?

Because that would be different imo, at least in my case. I as a player did not feel as attached to them as I was with the companions in Origins, for mainly two reasons (simplifying). I felt the characters and ambiance in Origins were better. And the fact that the PC is silent.

But I did feel camaraderie between my Hawke and his companions. Especially with Varric and Aveline, but also with others. We see them bond in cutscenes, like drinking with Fenris, setting Aveline up with a date (hilarious!)...etc. This of course was absent in Origins.
And what I like a lot is that we also see the companions bond with each other. Again, this is especially the case with Varric, via his nicknames and several cutscenes (with Anders especially). In Origins, while the banters were awesome, we didn't see characters interact with each other outside of them.

So in summary. I as a player felt more attached to the Origins companions. And while I was not as attached to the companions in DA2 (the ending farewell speeches was crap btw), I definitely felt that my Hawke had a strong relationship with them. Both have their pros and cons, and I think Origins requires active imagination and immersion for it to work, which does for me quite brilliantly.

[errant_knight]

Statulos wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Well, I knew part of it before--the dialogue wheel and the third person point of view in conversation. And a certain emotional exhaustion from one bad thing happening after another. But I think a bigger part of it might be that there's no character that I can truly identify with, whose ideals I share, or I just plain think is fun to talk to and I really like. They're all just so difficult, damaged, or totally unlike my good guy character. Varric comes nearest, but you don't really have the opportunity to get close. Everything is more fun when you feel really connected.

That is not a mistake; at all. Feeling unconnected to characters is actually a theatrical tecnique Bertol Brecht used a lot called Verfremdungseffekt.

The trick means that the whole plot and its parts make you feel alien, so instead of catharticaly connecting (like Aristotle´s theory of theatre) you get distanced archiving a better insight of what is going on.

Interesting idea. I'm aware of the technique, but I wouldn't have thought it would be purposely applied to a video game, particularly a role playing game where involement is key. Still, an interesting notion.

[errant_knight]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I wouldn't say I felt distanced from the companions. Though I have to ask, but "I", you mean yourself as a player or your Hawke?

Because that would be different imo, at least in my case. I as a player did not feel as attached to them as I was with the companions in Origins, for mainly two reasons (simplifying). I felt the characters and ambiance in Origins were better. And the fact that the PC is silent.

But I did feel camaraderie between my Hawke and his companions. Especially with Varric and Aveline, but also with others. We see them bond in cutscenes, like drinking with Fenris, setting Aveline up with a date (hilarious!)...etc. This of course was absent in Origins.
And what I like a lot is that we also see the companions bond with each other. Again, this is especially the case with Varric, via his nicknames and several cutscenes (with Anders especially). In Origins, while the banters were awesome, we didn't see characters interact with each other outside of them.

So in summary. I as a player felt more attached to the Origins companions. And while I was not as attached to the companions in DA2 (the ending farewell speeches was crap btw), I definitely felt that my Hawke had a strong relationship with them. Both have their pros and cons, and I think Origins requires active imagination and immersion for it to work, which does for me quite brilliantly.

I guess I mean 'I' as a player, mostly, but also as Hawke. I did feel the camraderie that you mention, mostly with Varric and Aveline, but while I saw bonding, and it was referenced, I never really felt it very strongly. While I see Hawke doing so, and it's referenced, I as a player never really felt it except in the most casual sense. Maybe this has more to do with my more third person relationship to Hawke than anything else.

[Kinaori]

The fact that I only had a real one on one conversation I think 3-4 times with each companion over the course of years made it bizarre. The fact that you couldn't just go talk to them whenever was weird.

Also, lack of party camp hurt the camaraderie for me.

[Reinveil]

There are a few reasons I didn't connect with the characters nearly as much this time around. The lack of interaction compared to Origins is obviously one of them. It's been argued in this thread that companion dialogue that has no bearing on the story is boring or without value, which I just don't understand at all. For me, some of the best conversations in Origins were the ones that were entirely personal in nature. How anyhow can argue that Sten was worthless boggles my mind; he was fascinating to talk to once you earned his trust and he was more willing to discuss the ways of the Qunari or his love for baked goods. I liked hearing Leliana's stories about Orlais, and Zevran's Crow shenanigans. I very much missed those moments in DAII. I also found most of the characters in the sequel to be fairly unlikable or one-dimensional (or both).

Fenris - If he's not talking about how scarred and hurt and hateful he is, he's talking about how much he distrusts mages. Constantly. Over and over again. We get it. That's all there really is to him. So poorly developed.

Merrill - Seems cute initially, but her single-minded obsession with the mirror (for...some reason...is it ever even explained why she feels this ONE THING is such an integral piece of Dalish history?) and willingness to put it above the lives and welfare of her friends makes her pretty unsympathetic. After killing her clan's Keeper, I found her more or less repugnant.

Isabela - Overt ****** aid and little more, I cringed every time there was a scene with her. Players going with a straight male Hawk were kinda SOL in this game when it came to romance. I was glad to see her go after I told her to give the book back to the Qunari (promiscuous AND selfish, how charming).

Varric - Varric was actually alright, I enjoyed joking around with him. I had a laugh when he was teaching my dog to gamble. Just wish I could have learned more about him.

Aveline - I couldn't stand her self-righteous attitude at first, but she grows on you as the game progresses. "The Long Road" was amusing and her empathy after Hawke's mother is killed was poignant. I think she was fleshed out a little better than some of the other characters.

Sebastian - I could barely remember his name for this list. I think they were trying to portray him as good-hearted but flighty (the type of person that gets really fired up about something new for a little while, only to not follow through once the enthusiasm fizzles out), but all that really came across to me was THE MAKER THE MAKER THE MAKER THE MAKER THE MAKER THE MAKER. Ugh, just shut up already. Leliana was a far more interesting "religious" character.

Anders - I thought he was great in Awakening, one of the highlights of that game to be sure. Here I found him formulaic fodder for female players to want to "save", and by the end of act 3 I wanted to kill him myself. He was changed unnecessarily and suffered greatly for it.

Bethany - I liked her enough, she also benefited from having more time to be developed. She didn't stand out for me, though. Can't comment on Carver since I haven't played a mage.

So out of 8 characters, I liked 2 and found 1 tolerable. The rest I wanted to drown or didn't care about at all. In Origins, even the characters I didn't like were still interesting and not just archetypes beating you over the head with generic views and personality types. During the first couple acts, I found the writing in this game to be consistent with other Bioware titles, but by the end, even this began to disappoint.

Modifié par Reinveil, 17 mars 2011 - 07:24 .

[rak72]

I think what ruined it for me was that you didn't see the relationship/companions grow over the years. After completing a game of DAO ( which can take me 2 couple of months, not weeks) and then staring a new campain, I'm always taken a back by how different the characters are when 1st starting out. My Warden & Alistair are 2 wiseasses cracking jokes in front of their commander, By the end they are 2 adults with the weight of the world on their shoulders. And we get to see the relationship grow. My warden gets to comfort him about Duncan, find out about his past. It all builds up to the,"Has anyone ever told you how handsom you are?". And that line hangs there until you are ready to use it, so you can pace the relationship as you see fit. I was very put off by the, "you're pretty hot for a demon". line right after Anders kills his friend, which you have to use there, or loose it. One minute you are telling them they are pretty or something, the next they are moving into your house. Like I said - there is no progression, and I also feel like the character you met in the beginging is the same at the end - except Anders who is more nuts.

As far as the LI go, I didn't find anything about any of them appealing. I wish the writers would have made them a little more normal so that I could somehow conceive of how I would go out with them in real life, because withou that I don't want to be bothered in the game. They made the non-LI people nice, normal & relateable and we see how they are everyone's favorites. They tried to pull out too much drama with the LIs, and for me, that backfired -I just feek apathetic at best towards them. I do love Sebastian, however. I wish they would have fleshed out his story more & not made him a DLC.

[highcastle]

I may be in the minority, but I connected with the characters more in DA2 than in Origins. And I love Origins, don't get me wrong. I also loved how in Origins you could spam questions to them and get to know them right off the bat. The one thing I wish DA2 would've done is have that sort of accessibility, or let you have a few more conversations in the first Act.

That being said, I loved that companions interacted more with each other and in our own conversations. Almost every quest had different interjections by companions. They felt like integral parts of the moment, not just hangers on. They also seemed to respond more to the big events. After All That Remains, both your uncle and your love interest show up at your house. This was awesome. Something like this was missing in Origins. Say you were a human noble. After killing Howe, no one came over and asked how you felt. So DA2 won major points for me right there.

I also like the dynamics of the friendship and rivalry system. I've done 2 playthroughs right now with differing friendships and rivalries. It really does make a difference on conversations, tone, etc. Some of the differences are subtle, some are more obvious. Either way, I feel like my companions are responding to my choices and my interactions in a way they didn't during Origins.

Companion quests were also a big plus in this game. I liked being able to do things for and with my followers. It provided further insight into their lives. How could you not, for instance, grow fond of Aveline during the Long Road?

Everyone of course has varying tastes, and DA2 is a very different kind of RPG with its more personal focus. But for me, it hit the right notes. I really loved my followers. I can't think of one I honestly hated or was even really indifferent too, unlike Origins where I never emotionally connected to a few of them (like Sten, for instance). I had a clear understanding of every DA2 companion's views and histories. I found them interesting. My one complaint is wanting more dialogue, and really, that's not such a bad craving to have.

Edited to respond to the post above me:

As far as the LI go, I didn't find anything about any of them
appealing. I wish the writers would have made them a little more normal
so that I could somehow conceive of how I would go out with them in real
life, because withou that I don't want to be bothered in the game.
They made the non-LI people nice, normal & relateable and we see
how they are everyone's favorites. They tried to pull out too much
drama with the LIs, and for me, that backfired -I just feek apathetic at
best towards them. I do love Sebastian, however. I wish they would
have fleshed out his story more & not made him a DLC.

I have to disagree with you here. The last thing I want in a fantasy RPG is someone normal I could meet in real life. Isn't have the fun immersing yourself in another world, another life, and meeting people you could never encounter in reality? It is for me, at least. I'm also a sucker for tragedy, and Anders' romance arc hits like a punch in the gut. It's awesome, though I understand not everyone wants to ride an emotional roller coaster in a video game. For me, though, it was such a change from the usual happy endings and bright sunshiney days, I really liked it.

Modifié par highcastle, 17 mars 2011 - 07:30 .

[rak72]

I'm not saying I want John Smith the accountant from down the block in the game, just someone whos values and personality I can reate to.

[Reinveil]

highcastle wrote...

I have to disagree with you here. The last thing I want in a fantasy RPG is someone normal I could meet in real life. Isn't have the fun immersing yourself in another world, another life, and meeting people you could never encounter in reality? It is for me, at least. I'm also a sucker for tragedy, and Anders' romance arc hits like a punch in the gut. It's awesome, though I understand not everyone wants to ride an emotional roller coaster in a video game. For me, though, it was such a change from the usual happy endings and bright sunshiney days, I really liked it.

I agree with you on getting away from the mundane in a fantasy game, but there are better ways of going about it.

Modifié par Reinveil, 19 mars 2011 - 04:59 .

[VampOrchid]

I feel close to anders because I agree with his views. Maybe not his actions, but his views I most certainly agree with. My first warden in DAO was a mage, so I 100% agree with what he has to say.

I also like Fenris and Aveline. I don't 100% agree with them, but I love the characters. I don't mind Meril, but meh, I'd be ok if she left.

Funny, the one I can't stand the most is Carver.

[Statulos]

errant_knight wrote...

Statulos wrote...

errant_knight wrote...

Well, I knew part of it before--the dialogue wheel and the third person point of view in conversation. And a certain emotional exhaustion from one bad thing happening after another. But I think a bigger part of it might be that there's no character that I can truly identify with, whose ideals I share, or I just plain think is fun to talk to and I really like. They're all just so difficult, damaged, or totally unlike my good guy character. Varric comes nearest, but you don't really have the opportunity to get close. Everything is more fun when you feel really connected.

That is not a mistake; at all. Feeling unconnected to characters is actually a theatrical tecnique Bertol Brecht used a lot called Verfremdungseffekt.

The trick means that the whole plot and its parts make you feel alien, so instead of catharticaly connecting (like Aristotle´s theory of theatre) you get distanced archiving a better insight of what is going on.

Interesting idea. I'm aware of the technique, but I wouldn't have thought it would be purposely applied to a video game, particularly a role playing game where involement is key. Still, an interesting notion.

We shouldn´t understimate people like David Gaider. I consider him a good writter and good writers are not only talented people, but also people with good knowledge of the tecniques used in their trade.

If you don´t sympathize with people like Isabela for her ambivalent morals and selfishness, her acts about the relic are more powerful and tell a more effective story about her being the cause of a huge problem.

If you don´t sympathize with Fenris not allowing himself to let go and readjusting his life, you can get a better picture of the issue with slaves that are not slaves anymore.

[Brockololly]

basbaker wrote...
The characters in DA2, with the exception of Varric and Aveline and I suppose Isabella, seem like causes.  Fenris is the anti-slavery, anti-mage cause.  Sure, you get to find out why and you can sympathize or not, but the cause defines him.  Anders is all about the plight of the mages and it defines him to the extent that he isn't even human anymore.  Merrill is of course all about her clan and blindly pursuing any means to achieve her personal goal.  Again, it's a cause that defines her.  Sebastian is all about the Chantry even though he's constantly conflicted about it and sometimes acts in direct opposition to its teachings.  But still, his association with the Chantry more or less defines him.

It's not a coincidence that so many people choose Varric and Aveline as their favorite characters.  Those two aren't about causes.  They're people first, and causes second - if they even champion a cause.  Varric is a loyal friend no matter how much **** flies in the course of Hawke's time in Kirkwall.  Isabella also is a strong personality first and foremost.  The more I've played the game, the more I've enjoyed Isabella.

^This.

I think its like you said, most of the companions in DA2 can be summed up as ideological causes and not so much as fully fleshed out multi-faceted individuals. So that, combined with how they're essentially by default friendly with Hawke via the friendship / rivalry system, can make some of them feel rather artificial .


And then the few times you do get some non-ideological talk or quests out of a companion, its usually in the banter, which is fine, but the banter is very passive way to go about characterization, since as a player you're never interacting or participating. And I think thats part of the problem in DA2- you primarily interact with the companions by having every interaction go down as a quest which is given the green light by the companion, never Hawke. And  most quests are all about the companion and their ideological view of issue X, Y or Z. Yet it seems most of the actual dialogue each companion has comes from the banter, which Hawke rarely is actively involved in.

Then you add in the time jumps, which are occasionally bizarre in terms of how they treat relationships. Take Act 2 to Act 3- I had Hawke romance Isabela and at the start of Act 3 went to chat with her, only to have her Act all odd to Hawke and Hawke act like he had not seen her in years. Well, sure, as a player I just saw her pull a Han Solo in returning with the Qunari book not five minutes ago, but I had to read in the codex to learn that supposedly she ran off again for years after that stunt, so Hawke was supposedly just meeting back up with her after years at the start of Act 3.


There are more issues I have, but lastly I'd say it comes down to player agency and having the characters react to the PC. Outside of some moments like the LI / Aveline checking on Hawke after Leandra's death, most interactions with the companions end up being all about the companion and very rarely about Hawke. This isn't a new issue in a BioWare game, but it feels more prevalent in DA2 as nobody seemed to really talk to Hawke or care about what Hawke thought personally (maybe outside of Aveline or Varric), as the relationships develop a black and white feel based on the friendship/rivalry system and whatever single issue it is that makes that companion tick. 

And I'd add that the lack of the little gifts hurt the characters too. Sure each companions had a couple main ones, but those get turned into "quests" so there wasn't that sense of discovery through dialogue like Origins in figuring out "Oh, hey! Morrigan likes shiny baubles! Or Alistair likes action figures!" and then when you found that random piece of jewelery you knew to give it to Morrigan. Thats a little thing that added an extra bit of character to the companions that was lacking in DA2 once all gifts became big deals without any smaller ones.

Modifié par Brockololly, 17 mars 2011 - 08:29 .

[darkrose]

RagingCyclone wrote...

Melrache wrote...

The main reason I loved this game, was because of the companions and that I could actually talk to them, in DA:O the mute character was soo painful for me. I didn't feel connected to other characters at all, when comparing to DA2.

I hope they follow this route in the future.

For me it's the opposite. With the silent pc I can let my imagination take over and I end up being more immersed because my own inner voice supplies the tone, inflection, and attiitude of the dialogue. But with a voiced pc that is taken away. So instead of losing myself in the character and actually become a part of the story myself, I just end up going through the motions with someone else's voice taking me out of the equation.  The silent hero is the reason that Half Life 2 is still my all time favorite game. But I also understand that the voiced pc is most likely the way of the future of the genre. It makes me sad, but I can accept it to a point. I just know that in future games like this I will be interested for a while, and then lose said interest because it's someone else's story, and my imagination will be blocked from letting it become something more.

THIS SO MUCH.

My Tabris Warden was (mostly) silent in the game, but every time I chose a line, I "heard" her in my head. I always knew that the response I chose would be the actual words she "said", so I could decide for myself what her tone was, rather than pick from three options and hope it wouldn't come out painfully earnest, obnoxiously inappropriate, or downright rude. The responses I chose were based on who I thought the character was, rather than having the response patterns define the character. With DAO, I felt like I was part of the story; with DA2 I'm on the outside, watching.

[darkrose]

highcastle wrote...

I have to disagree with you here. The last thing I want in a fantasy RPG is someone normal I could meet in real life. Isn't have the fun immersing yourself in another world, another life, and meeting people you could never encounter in reality? It is for me, at least. I'm also a sucker for tragedy, and Anders' romance arc hits like a punch in the gut. It's awesome, though I understand not everyone wants to ride an emotional roller coaster in a video game. For me, though, it was such a change from the usual happy endings and bright sunshiney days, I really liked it.

I'm not asking for normal; however, it would have been nice to have a love interest option who wasn't fundamentally broken in some way. The Origins LI's had issues, but I didn't feel like they were dumping their baggage at my feet and saying "Fix me!" I could easily envision being interested in any of them. All of the DA2 LI's are people who would make me run the other way as fast as possible IRL. The only character in the game that I genuinely like and would totally hang out with is Varric--because he's not bat**** crazy.

[darkrose]

Statulos wrote...

We shouldn´t understimate people like David Gaider. I consider him a good writter and good writers are not only talented people, but also people with good knowledge of the tecniques used in their trade.

If you don´t sympathize with people like Isabela for her ambivalent morals and selfishness, her acts about the relic are more powerful and tell a more effective story about her being the cause of a huge problem.

If you don´t sympathize with Fenris not allowing himself to let go and readjusting his life, you can get a better picture of the issue with slaves that are not slaves anymore.

Sorry; I don't buy that.

If I don't sympathize with Fenris, I'm not going to bother keeping him in my party. I won't have a better picture of anything because I'm going to avoid interacting with him as much as possible. Conversely, I had zero investment in the game and was actually getting kind of bored until the "Tranquility" quest. Anders having to kill his lover? Writing and acting completely sold the moment, and I cared. I wanted to see what impact that had. Bethany's death, on the other hand, left me completely cold. I learned more about her from reading her codex entry than from playing the game, so she never felt real to me.

I also disagree with your interpretation of the author's intent. Bioware is not and has never been subtle. The intent of the story is to evoke an emotional reaction; maintaining a Brechtian distance is the antithesis of that. My fundamental problem with DA2 isn't that I'm being emotionally manipulated. It's that I always see--and feel--the strings.