185 réponses à ce sujet

[byzantine horse]

It's like everytime Real Madrid doesn't win a trophy, everyone go bananas. Even when they had their best season in years and won the league under Capello he was fired because "it wasn't good enough". It's all about the expectations. Dragon Age 2 is a good game, but not up to Dragon Age: Origins' standard.

Then again: Exactly how many games actually compete with DA:O in this genre? Really? Name new games that compete with it. Dragon Age 2 could very well be the best this year, depending on how Witcher and Skyrim do. It is a good game and imo Bioware doesn't desrve even a fifth of the negative feedback they recieve (read: Unconstructive criticsm). But Origins standard? Nope.

Modifié par byzantine horse, 17 mars 2011 - 12:11 .

[SirGladiator]

They made a lot of improvements from the last game to this one, from my perspective. However those improvements arent really seen as improvements to a WHOLE lot of folks out there, folks who bought the first game, the very first people they probably should've been tailoring things for. I really like the fast-paced, cool new style of combat for example, and I don't really care about the relatively small number of different types of dungeons, but mercy it seems that a lot of folks sure have a different opinion. The weirdest part is the total lack of sales numbers, we just dont have any idea how well it did this long after a debut, that has never happened for any Bioware game in recent memory. I forget exactly, but it was maybe a couple days after DAO came out that they were trumpeting the huge sales numbers, numbers that of course got bigger and bigger over time also until they became the #1 selling game in Bioware history, even more than ME2, and of course for ME2 it might've actually been the very next day they were giving out the big numbers. The fact that they arent revealing anything could easily be a sign that the numbers arent impressive, but then again they could have good numbers and it could just be one more example of the fact that the DA2 marketing folks are simply incompetent. Clearly whatever succeess the game enjoys will be despite, not because of, those folks.

I can't imagine it will be much longer now until we find out what the numbers are, but I dont think there's any chance of the series being cancelled, if the numbers are bad they'll just go back to the DAO-style of play for DA3, flaws and all. DAO was their most popular game ever, this series isn't going anywhere even if DA2 underperforms. DA is like an RPG-Madden, if they make an unpopular version one year they'll just improve it next year and it'll do well again, because at the core its an awesome and super-popular game, theres a huge market for it when its done to the fans liking, thats already been proven.

[Persephone]

hawat333 wrote...

The thing is, they don't "bash it on principle".
Bugs, entirely cut content which are still visible, re-used areas, respawning enemies to push the length, nonsense sidequest for the same reason, broken promises, false statements that were made during the marketing (which was cut because of time restraints).

1) I have seen proof of people ADMITTING to bashing it on principle without having played it.

2) The VERY same is true in the case of DAO.

[Persephone]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

It's possible to get a measure of a game before you play it because there is so much game media out there.

I plan on putting up my review scores on meta and amazon at the lowest possible scoring. The difference between our opinions is that you see Dragon Age 2 as a harmless Apostate and I see it as an Abomination. =P

You trust in the media and premediate rating it as negatively as possible? Will you at least play it once/beat it once or are you doing this out of spite?

I have beaten the game and put about 38 hours into it, 38 hours of mediocre game and at parts it becomes so intensely boring I had to motivate myself to continue playing.

Fair enough. I feel the same way when I think of dragging my poor Warden through the Deep Roads or the Fade again, by the way.

[Persephone]

SirGladiator wrote...

They made a lot of improvements from the last game to this one, from my perspective. However those improvements arent really seen as improvements to a WHOLE lot of folks out there, folks who bought the first game, the very first people they probably should've been tailoring things for. I really like the fast-paced, cool new style of combat for example, and I don't really care about the relatively small number of different types of dungeons, but mercy it seems that a lot of folks sure have a different opinion. The weirdest part is the total lack of sales numbers, we just dont have any idea how well it did this long after a debut, that has never happened for any Bioware game in recent memory. I forget exactly, but it was maybe a couple days after DAO came out that they were trumpeting the huge sales numbers, numbers that of course got bigger and bigger over time also until they became the #1 selling game in Bioware history, even more than ME2, and of course for ME2 it might've actually been the very next day they were giving out the big numbers. The fact that they arent revealing anything could easily be a sign that the numbers arent impressive, but then again they could have good numbers and it could just be one more example of the fact that the DA2 marketing folks are simply incompetent. Clearly whatever succeess the game enjoys will be despite, not because of, those folks.

I can't imagine it will be much longer now until we find out what the numbers are, but I dont think there's any chance of the series being cancelled, if the numbers are bad they'll just go back to the DAO-style of play for DA3, flaws and all. DAO was their most popular game ever, this series isn't going anywhere even if DA2 underperforms. DA is like an RPG-Madden, if they make an unpopular version one year they'll just improve it next year and it'll do well again, because at the core its an awesome and super-popular game, theres a huge market for it when its done to the fans liking, thats already been proven.

Well said. And I'm curious about the numbers myself. Is a week really that long when it comes to Sales numbers though?

[rob_k]

I did do some digging earlier in terms of looking at the charts for some websites in the UK. I can post them if you want.

I guess that's the most accurate picture you'll get, as BioWare may not release a statement and if they do, it possibly won't be for a while.

Admittedly, it's not as good as I thought and my earlier comments in the thread were wrong.

And it's a shame really, because the game doesn't deserve the bashing it's received and I'm enjoying it.

Edit: I do know several websites have commented on Dragon Age 2 taking top spots on the charts in the UK though and over half the copies have been bought for the Xbox. (Again, according to some websites)

By the way, just browsing Gametrailers and it was mentioned on there that DA: O was a slow seller at first?

Modifié par rob_k, 17 mars 2011 - 12:25 .

[misterdde]

I agree, the game itself is good, even the technical flaw we all know now. But, as i saw written in some places, it's expectations that had drag the game down. I'm not afraid to say it, i'm a part of the so-called elitist who hoped for a origin-improved RPG. And as da2 has took another direction i'm decived. I played ii trhought a couple of time and i find it entertaining. It's a good game after all. It's just lacking the spirit of origin in order to have better review. And for the folk who review badly the game for the principle... Try it and talk after please.

[CRISIS1717]

Persephone wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

It's possible to get a measure of a game before you play it because there is so much game media out there.

I plan on putting up my review scores on meta and amazon at the lowest possible scoring. The difference between our opinions is that you see Dragon Age 2 as a harmless Apostate and I see it as an Abomination. =P

You trust in the media and premediate rating it as negatively as possible? Will you at least play it once/beat it once or are you doing this out of spite?

I have beaten the game and put about 38 hours into it, 38 hours of mediocre game and at parts it becomes so intensely boring I had to motivate myself to continue playing.

Fair enough. I feel the same way when I think of dragging my poor Warden through the Deep Roads or the Fade again, by the way.

Yes but thats after you've come across all the surprises, stories and twists. I felt like this on my first playthrough of DA2. It's why I feel intensely disappointed and I'll rate it as badly as I can so developers take notice. If you come off with a mixed attitude then they'll just say hey nobody has kicked up a fuss so lets make a hash of it again.

[Persephone]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

It's possible to get a measure of a game before you play it because there is so much game media out there.

I plan on putting up my review scores on meta and amazon at the lowest possible scoring. The difference between our opinions is that you see Dragon Age 2 as a harmless Apostate and I see it as an Abomination. =P

You trust in the media and premediate rating it as negatively as possible? Will you at least play it once/beat it once or are you doing this out of spite?

I have beaten the game and put about 38 hours into it, 38 hours of mediocre game and at parts it becomes so intensely boring I had to motivate myself to continue playing.

Fair enough. I feel the same way when I think of dragging my poor Warden through the Deep Roads or the Fade again, by the way.

Yes but thats after you've come across all the surprises, stories and twists. I felt like this on my first playthrough of DA2. It's why I feel intensely disappointed and I'll rate it as badly as I can so developers take notice. If you come off with a mixed attitude then they'll just say hey nobody has kicked up a fuss so lets make a hash of it again.

What surprises, stories and twists are those? (That lead there) Why do you think the "Skip The Fade Mod" is so popular? While I loved DAO, there were no huge surprises (End Boss was known ASAP, Howe's and Loghain's actions were foreshadowed inanely....) . Develöpers won't care about throwing a tantrum. They usually go for the middle ground. And again, this game doesn't deserve a 0. Want to play a 0? Play Gothic III or IV. Or "The Guild".

[Fishy]

I followed their whole marketing campaign and it's was so fail . Even the first article and screenshot was terrible.The whole 'Fight like a spartan' and 'press a button and something cool happens' .
You have to be extremely cautious with what you say.They did some streaming .. I loved them but they were still amateurish.

The whole DLC thing .It's pissed me off . The whole 'We raise our price to 59.99 for the steam version' .Yes i purchased it and i made a mistake.The second i purchased it i regretted it.
I wanted to wait but the hype got me with the first review of the game which was positive.

A lot of us are fed up with this DLC/EA/pricing etc.Than you release something far from being on par with the original product and expect the sky to fall.I paid 60.00$ for the digital version.I can't even sell it.

I don't want bioware telling me 5 month before the release that if i pre-order i will get free DLC.I don't want cheap DRM on my computer ..Which are probably malwares.It's the last time i purchase a digital copy for 60.00$.It's the last time i`m caugh in the hype.

Gamer are pissed at EA/Bioware . I`m not a hater and DA2 it's not a bad game . But it's not red dead redemption either.

[Rune-Chan]

People on the internet are by and large sad, pathetic and childish. I just hope Bioware ignores them.

There are several valid complaints about the game, but for the most part, people are talking a load of crap, the graphics are worse than Dragon Age: Origins? That's not even possible.

[Persephone]

Machines Are Us wrote...

People on the internet are by and large sad, pathetic and childish. I just hope Bioware ignores them.

There are several valid complaints about the game, but for the most part, people are talking a load of crap, the graphics are worse than Dragon Age: Origins? That's not even possible.

But don't you know? Dragon Age Origins is impeccable. Never mind it received the same treatment DA2 is getting now for being hyped as "The spiritual successor of the Baldur's Gate Series".

[xenn]

Machines Are Us wrote...

People on the internet are by and large sad, pathetic and childish. I just hope Bioware ignores them.

Its the 4chan mentality of many gamers these days unfortunatly.

[misterdde]

Persephone wrote...

But don't you know? Dragon Age Origins is impeccable. Never mind it received the same treatment DA2 is getting now for being hyped as "The spiritual successor of the Baldur's Gate Series".

Origin has it's own flaws, but at least we have the toolset to correct them. And da2 is far from being called " sucessor " to anything i'm pretty sure of it :3  It's a good game, but it has some kind of " spirit " lack

[Funker Shepard]

rob_k wrote...

hawat333 wrote...

The thing is, they don't "bash it on principle".
They bash it because it's an exteremly rushed product, and we can see it in nearly every aspect (except for the dialogue system maybe, that seems to be fully developed).
Bugs, entirely cut content which are still visible, re-used areas, respawning enemies to push the length, nonsense sidequest for the same reason, broken promises, false statements that were made during the marketing (which was cut because of time restraints).

Out of curiosity, what nonsense side-quests are these?

The secondary quests or the side-quests? Quite a few of the side-quests could be seen as pointless I suppose, but many of the secondary quests are involved and tie into the overall plot, I believe.

The oft-repeated "nonsense sidequests" argument is the one I totally fail to comprehend. Mostly because in this respect DA2 is a VAST improvement over DAO, and its multitude of entirely hollow job-board quests. Sure, those hollow fedex quests are still there, the "side quests", but the secondary quests are basically an all-new layer to the quest structure, and one that is a great improvement over the origin(s)al.

My point being, that a lot of the criticism of this game can be valid, but pretending that it's worse than Origins (at least in those respects - I generally consider it to be superior to Origins) is less so.

[Element Zero]

VictorianTrash wrote...

Let's just hope all the negativity doesn't kill the series entirely. I'd be absolutely distraught if DA got eradicated. But judging by all the bad press, I'm starting to think the series being killed is inevitable.

This worries me, as well. As a person very much in favor of all the mechanical changes they made, I feel, at the very least, a sense of dread in regard to how a DA3's gameplay might be affected. DAO was an incredible story told through abhorrent gameplay and terribly dated visuals, in my opinion. It doesn't keep me from playing it, and it doesn't keep me from loving it, but that's how I feel. I hope DA3 will be an evolution of DA2, not a step back toward DAO.
 
As is typical for the Bioware forums, people are taking the "over the top theatrics" approach in expressing their criticisms. It's sad, but it's what I've come to expect from this community. Whether good or bad, we always seem to get a manic response, here.

There is hope, though. ME2 was initially received with a lot of vitriol on these forums, but is now widely regarded as an amazing game. As much as I like DA2, it will not receive ME2's praise, and for obvious reasons. That said, though, time may allow cooler heads and more objective criticism to prevail.

This game is not perfect. It is one hell of a game, though, and one with which I'm very pleased.

[Marionetten]

Machines Are Us wrote...

People on the internet are by and large sad, pathetic and childish. I just hope Bioware ignores them.

I don't. I hope that BioWare realizes that recycling areas and cutting corners doesn't pay off and that they put some actual effort into their next title. Dragon Age II was a rush job. I fail to see why BioWare should be praised for it. Laidlaw once compared BioWare to an Olympic athlete within the genre. Well, great things are expected from Olympic athletes. Try harder, BioWare. You can do better than this.

[Element Zero]

Funker Shepard wrote...

rob_k wrote...

hawat333 wrote...

The thing is, they don't "bash it on principle".
They bash it because it's an exteremly rushed product, and we can see it in nearly every aspect (except for the dialogue system maybe, that seems to be fully developed).
Bugs, entirely cut content which are still visible, re-used areas, respawning enemies to push the length, nonsense sidequest for the same reason, broken promises, false statements that were made during the marketing (which was cut because of time restraints).

Out of curiosity, what nonsense side-quests are these?

The secondary quests or the side-quests? Quite a few of the side-quests could be seen as pointless I suppose, but many of the secondary quests are involved and tie into the overall plot, I believe.

The oft-repeated "nonsense sidequests" argument is the one I totally fail to comprehend. Mostly because in this respect DA2 is a VAST improvement over DAO, and its multitude of entirely hollow job-board quests. Sure, those hollow fedex quests are still there, the "side quests", but the secondary quests are basically an all-new layer to the quest structure, and one that is a great improvement over the origin(s)al.

My point being, that a lot of the criticism of this game can be valid, but pretending that it's worse than Origins (at least in those respects - I generally consider it to be superior to Origins) is less so.

QFT.

I understand that no game can please everyone, but I will likey never understand some of these arguments.

Once the initial nerd-rage dies down, the probability of more realistic comparisons of DAO and DA2 should improve. Six months from now, the community may have a very different take on this game. We've seen it before. This happens with virtually every game Bioware releases.

[DragonRageGT]

Honestly, DA2 is a very decent and good game. Quite enjoyable for me and I have huge reserves against some of the changes made. But only playing in NM as an action game I can have some challenge and not feel extremely bored.

I can't imagine playing it in any other difficulty which does not require studying the char development tree, setting perfect tactics for an optimized party and still having to pause a lot, study some bosses unique abilities and reload quite a bit in bosses fights. (thanks to SabreSanDiego guide). I would certainly get an extreme pain in my fingers from hitting R (or mouse 4 for me) and 1,2,3,4 repeatedly non-stop.

[rob_k]

Funker Shepard wrote...

rob_k wrote...

hawat333 wrote...

The thing is, they don't "bash it on principle".
They bash it because it's an exteremly rushed product, and we can see it in nearly every aspect (except for the dialogue system maybe, that seems to be fully developed).
Bugs, entirely cut content which are still visible, re-used areas, respawning enemies to push the length, nonsense sidequest for the same reason, broken promises, false statements that were made during the marketing (which was cut because of time restraints).

Out of curiosity, what nonsense side-quests are these?

The secondary quests or the side-quests? Quite a few of the side-quests could be seen as pointless I suppose, but many of the secondary quests are involved and tie into the overall plot, I believe.

The oft-repeated "nonsense sidequests" argument is the one I totally fail to comprehend. Mostly because in this respect DA2 is a VAST improvement over DAO, and its multitude of entirely hollow job-board quests. Sure, those hollow fedex quests are still there, the "side quests", but the secondary quests are basically an all-new layer to the quest structure, and one that is a great improvement over the origin(s)al.

My point being, that a lot of the criticism of this game can be valid, but pretending that it's worse than Origins (at least in those respects - I generally consider it to be superior to Origins) is less so.

Yep, agreed.

Edit: By the way, off-topic I know, but did you folks find many secondary quests in Act 2? (Not side-quests) I've only really found Night Terrors, one from Wounded Coast, the Bone Pit one and the companion quests so far. Unless others unlock by completing the companion quests.

Modifié par rob_k, 17 mars 2011 - 01:44 .

[NedPepper]

You know what the reviews trolling those sites make me think? That gamers are obsessive, strange, and feel a sense of entitlement. How dare Bioware try something different?

Strangely, I have a few friends playing the game. They have no idea how horrible and childish so many people are being. And they like the game just fine. I think there's a weird hive mind going on with some people. It's become "Bring Down Bioware!" I just wonder about these people's lives. It's okay to dislike a game....but some of these people are taking it way too personal. It's really bizarre.

[Marionetten]

nedpepper wrote...

....but some of these people are taking it way too personal. It's really bizarre.

... Like getting hurt over reviews for a game by a company which you have no real part in, you mean?

Yes, I quite agree. It is bizarre.

[DariusKalera]

rob_k wrote...

Funker Shepard wrote...

rob_k wrote...

hawat333 wrote...

The thing is, they don't "bash it on principle".
They bash it because it's an exteremly rushed product, and we can see it in nearly every aspect (except for the dialogue system maybe, that seems to be fully developed).
Bugs, entirely cut content which are still visible, re-used areas, respawning enemies to push the length, nonsense sidequest for the same reason, broken promises, false statements that were made during the marketing (which was cut because of time restraints).

Out of curiosity, what nonsense side-quests are these?

The secondary quests or the side-quests? Quite a few of the side-quests could be seen as pointless I suppose, but many of the secondary quests are involved and tie into the overall plot, I believe.

The oft-repeated "nonsense sidequests" argument is the one I totally fail to comprehend. Mostly because in this respect DA2 is a VAST improvement over DAO, and its multitude of entirely hollow job-board quests. Sure, those hollow fedex quests are still there, the "side quests", but the secondary quests are basically an all-new layer to the quest structure, and one that is a great improvement over the origin(s)al.

My point being, that a lot of the criticism of this game can be valid, but pretending that it's worse than Origins (at least in those respects - I generally consider it to be superior to Origins) is less so.

Yep, agreed.

I'm still trying to think of a quest in DA:O where I picked up a pair of pants in a dungeon and knew instinctively where to take them.  I lost count on how many times this quest variation was in game.

Only one that I can think of that's similar is the flower one at the beginning but then you had the rogue with you to explain it all so you knew to take the flower tot he mabari handler.

[AkiKishi]

Bioware made a choice. Actions have consequences, all you are seeing are the consequences.

I could quite easily rate DA2 at a 4 and write an essay about why.

[rob_k]

nedpepper wrote...

You know what the reviews trolling those sites make me think? That gamers are obsessive, strange, and feel a sense of entitlement. How dare Bioware try something different?

Strangely, I have a few friends playing the game. They have no idea how horrible and childish so many people are being. And they like the game just fine. I think there's a weird hive mind going on with some people. It's become "Bring Down Bioware!" I just wonder about these people's lives. It's okay to dislike a game....but some of these people are taking it way too personal. It's really bizarre.

Yeah. It's fair enough posting your dissatisfaction but actually going out of your way to post in every thread you can about the game's 'a fail' etc. and basically stopping others from talking about the game in a decent discussion is taking things too far.

I mean, I'm not the most sociable person and my work consists of playing games and writing about them. But if I found a problem with a game and was genuinely dissatisfied, I'd make a post about it and then leave it at (that's if I'd even post at all). So, I do wonder about some people.