360 réponses à ce sujet

[Aidunno]

I find it funny that in regards to DA2 there are a lot of arguments about "this is not a CRPG" etc.. now it's this is what a game is/is not. Like the previous discussion it's all a matter of opinion.

I remember where CRPG's consisted of typing text to progress the story (while trying to get a correct syntax that the computer would recognise was frustrating). Combat was simply "hit orc" or something similar. These were still games in my opinion. Bearing this in mind, having combat on/off would not make that much of a difference to thegame if it were optional as wach person could decide what their game would consist of.

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

Galad22 wrote...

Agreed, but if you can do that, you should be allowed to skip combat as well.

No, because then it's not a game.

There are movies for that.

[the_one_54321]

Galad22 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
How is pushing a skip button so different from going around (which you can't do in DAII)?

Pushing a skip button is you skipping the game. Using a game play feature to do something other than fighting is not skipping the game. You pretty much said this within the question itself.

Galad22 wrote...
You can skip most fights in those even last boss in torment through conversation.

That is not skipping.

Fine avoid. Still game allowing you to do that makes game much better not worse.

Having variable options for overcoming challenges is always a good thing. Skipping playing the game is just not playing the game, in which case you arguably wasted your money when buying it.

[the_one_54321]

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

Galad22 wrote...
Agreed, but if you can do that, you should be allowed to skip combat as well.

No, because then it's not a game.

There are movies for that.

If it's part of the gameplay, you shouldn't be able to skip it. Dialog, combat, puzzles, travel, whatever.

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

Aidunno wrote...

I find it funny that in regards to DA2 there are a lot of arguments about "this is not a CRPG" etc.. now it's this is what a game is/is not. Like the previous discussion it's all a matter of opinion.

I remember where CRPG's consisted of typing text to progress the story (while trying to get a correct syntax that the computer would recognise was frustrating). Combat was simply "hit orc" or something similar. These were still games in my opinion. Bearing this in mind, having combat on/off would not make that much of a difference to thegame if it were optional as wach person could decide what their game would consist of.

Well, there's tabletop RPGs, and CRPGs, and WRPGs and JRPGs now, and everyone has their favorite. Tabletop and early text RPGs are a totally different animal than today's modern video game, but what all of these have in common is that people play them and enjoy them.

If you play it, it's a game. Have fun with it.

If you don't enjoy playing games, then games probably aren't for you.

[mesmerizedish]

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

I can dodge mobs in FFXII and not get into fights either except for bosses. In any RPG with an overworld where you can see the mobs, you can do this. Guess what-- even when you're dodging mobs, you're playing, because you're interacting with the game.

If you are not playing it, it's not a game. It isn't hard to understand.

But you are playing it. Yes, you are skipping gameplay. No one is arguing that you're not. But exploration, dialogue, buying and selling stuff... these are all gameplay as well. It isn't hard to understand.

[Merci357]

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

Merci357 wrote...
http://www.joystiq.c...killing-anyone/

Is it bad that games have such options, if combat is so important?

By going out of your way to avoid killing anything in a game you're still playing it. You just made a choice to dodge the enemies as opposed to fighting them. The controller is still in your hands, and it's up to you to make the strategy work.

I happen to enjoy fighting, mind you - it's just the 57th fight against street thugs isn't something something that adds quality to my gaming experience. If I could skip those fights (due to game mechanics) I would gladly do so.
Would you object to this point of view, or is this fine?

[Aesieru]

Aesieru wrote...

Galad22 wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Because going around the enemies is a in-game choice and feature, such as trying to be stealthy, but skipping them prevents a point of immersion.

You're scared or wary of the enemies and their Dark Spawn ogre so you move around it, versus... "click" *appear behind enemies* keep walking.

And skipping conversations doesn't prevent immersion?

That is exactly same thing.

Skippable was initially for debugging in the first place, but people ALREADY KNEW the story because they had heard it, most games don't allow you to skip outside of mods or a key most people don't think of, 360 one's don't allow you to skip or pause unless you use a non-game feature (the system menu).


---

It is a game-play feature to be able to SKIP COMBAT by means of conversation.

It is not a game-play feature to be able to SKIP COMBAT by means of artificially SKIPPING the combat.

[mesmerizedish]

Merci357 wrote...

I happen to enjoy fighting, mind you - it's just the 57th fight against street thugs isn't something something that adds quality to my gaming experience. If I could skip those fights (due to game mechanics) I would gladly do so.
Would you object to this point of view, or is this fine?

Be more specific as to what you mean by "game mechanics." A "skip combat" button is a game mechanic. So, yes, he'd object. If you mean some "in-universe" method, like stealth or dialogue, then no, I don't think he would.

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

Merci357 wrote...
I happen to enjoy fighting, mind you - it's just the 57th fight against street thugs isn't something something that adds quality to my gaming experience. If I could skip those fights (due to game mechanics) I would gladly do so.
Would you object to this point of view, or is this fine?

Best option in this case would be the implementation of an 'auto-play' mode after you've already beaten the game once, just in case you want to play it again but are tired of fighting the same stuff.

Or, as the poster above me just said, just dodge the street thugs and don't fight them.

Modifié par Vice-Admiral von Titsling, 17 mars 2011 - 04:45 .

[Galad22]

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

Galad22 wrote...

Agreed, but if you can do that, you should be allowed to skip combat as well.

No, because then it's not a game.

There are movies for that.

We clearly have different concepts of what game is.

You already agreed that combat doesn't necessarily make a game.

I am not saying it is best possible idea to allow you to skip combat but if you can do the same with conservations I don't see much difference between these.

In best possible scenario you should be able to avoid combat in DA2 through diplomacy or stealth. But since you aren't allowed to do these either, then button to skip combat is just as acceptable to me.

I don't play rpgs for hundreds of trash mobs that spawn behind my mages out of thin air and comes in waves of 10.

Modifié par Galad22, 17 mars 2011 - 04:45 .

[the_one_54321]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
Yes, you are skipping gameplay.

No it's not. Using the available abilities to circumvent challenges is not skipping the challenge. In the specific example given, FFXII, you can stay out of the monsters line of sight, or run, and then you don't have to fight. You can do this through almost all the game. And then the last bosses will beat the snot out of you since you never leveled up. Pressing a skip button to not have to fight and still getting the xp is entirely different.

[mesmerizedish]

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

Best option in this case would be the implementation of an 'auto-play' mode after you've already beaten the game once, just in case you want to play it again but are tired of fighting the same stuff.

But how is letting the game play itself any different from "fast-forwarding" past the combat?

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

Galad22 wrote...
In best possible scenario you should be able to avoid combat in DA2 through diplomacy or stealth. But since you aren't allowed to do these either, then button to skip combat is just as acceptable to me.

I don't play rpgs for hundreds of trash mobs that spawn behind my mages out of thin air and comes in waves of 10.

Stop playing bad RPGs.

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
But how is letting the game play itself any different from "fast-forwarding" past the combat?

Because you already beat the game once and it's purely for replay value?

[Aesieru]

Galad22 wrote...

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

Galad22 wrote...

Agreed, but if you can do that, you should be allowed to skip combat as well.

No, because then it's not a game.

There are movies for that.

We clearly have different concepts of what game is.

You already agreed that combat doesn't necessarily make a game.

I am not saying it is best possible idea to allow you to skip combat but if you can do the same with conservations I don't see much difference between these.

In best possible scenario you should be able to avoid combat in DA2 through diplomacy or stealth. But since you aren't allowed to do these either, then button to skip combat is just as acceptable to me.

I don't play rpgs for hundreds of trash mobs that spawn behind my mages out of thin air and comes in waves of 10.

So a game with a better combat style would be more to your liking?

What of Dragon Age: Origins or Awakening?

It seems you're just upset with the combat the way it is in DA:2 which we all are, but that doesn't mean combat should always be superseded in all games.

---

Also, the auto-play feature is something I don't agree with.

Making games play on auto-pilot is an idea that is probably the reason games are being made simpler.

Modifié par Aesieru, 17 mars 2011 - 04:49 .

[the_one_54321]

Galad22 wrote...
I don't play rpgs for hundreds of trash mobs that spawn behind my mages out of thin air and comes in waves of 10.

Have you considered that the problem is DAII and it's lousy combat implimentation, and not that combat is an unimportant part of the game?

[mesmerizedish]

the_one_54321 wrote...

No it's not. Using the available abilities to circumvent challenges is not skipping the challenge. In the specific example given, FFXII, you can stay out of the monsters line of sight, or run, and then you don't have to fight. You can do this through almost all the game. And then the last bosses will beat the snot out of you since you never leveled up. Pressing a skip button to not have to fight and still getting the xp is entirely different.

You misunderstand me. I mean a "skip combat" button is skipping gameplay. So is pressing ESC to blow through dialogue lines. The latter doesn't mean it's not a game. Neither does the former.

I agree with you on principle, that you shouldn't get to skip anything. But I'm also a proponent of players being allowed to play (or not) to get the maximum enjoyment of the game. I don't want a developer going to any sort of effort to employ a combat-skipping feature. But if it were already there, I wouldn't be clamoring for its removal either. I'd just never use it, and let other people enjoy the game as they will.

[Galad22]

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

Galad22 wrote...
In best possible scenario you should be able to avoid combat in DA2 through diplomacy or stealth. But since you aren't allowed to do these either, then button to skip combat is just as acceptable to me.

I don't play rpgs for hundreds of trash mobs that spawn behind my mages out of thin air and comes in waves of 10.

Stop playing bad RPGs.

Why do you think I am on these forums, hmm?

In hopes that Bioware happens to listen my opinions.

It seems we agree that DA2 wasn't very good rpg.

[mesmerizedish]

Vice-Admiral von Titsling wrote...

Because you already beat the game once and it's purely for replay value?

"Replay value," huh? So, you're still playing? Even though you're not taking part in combat at all? Interesting.

[Aesieru]

I feel all my good points are ignored...

La sigh.

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

Galad22 wrote...
Why do you think I am on these forums, hmm?

In hopes that Bioware happens to listen my opinions.

It seems we agree that DA2 wasn't very good rpg.

The best thing I can say about DA2 is that it unites people with very disparate opinions like you and I in one point of total agreement.

Still wouldn't pay $60 for it though.

[mesmerizedish]

Aesieru wrote...

I feel all my good points are ignored...

La sigh.

The quotes you respond to are too hard to read.

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
"Replay value," huh? So, you're still playing? Even though you're not taking part in combat at all? Interesting.

I wouldn't use it myself, but I'm trying to be understanding to the people who apparently find playing games tedious. I'm not so inflexible that I wouldn't consider one, but at least keep the semblance of a 'game' intact and make them beat the whole game normally first.

I think given the previous posts we can all agree DA2 should have one because it's terrible.

[Merced652]

i like watching movies too, don't you guys? Why the hate for turning your fav video game in to one??