360 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

>Play game
>Want a button to skip the game portions of game

Never change Hepler, never change

You can already do this with dialogue.  Unless you don't consider that a portion of the game. 

I can understand the mindset that after maybe a few playthroughs someone just wants to check out what's different if they side with the Templars.  Why should they have to clear the Circle Tower again just to see what changes in the story based on their choices in the story?  If you can't answer this question, then you don't really have an argument - and this thread is yet another strawman against mythical "casual gamers."

If you don't... well, I'm not sure what draws you to Bioware games.  But hey, to each their own.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 12:35 .

[Persephone]

CRISIS1717 wrote...

MOB_RULES wrote...

Submitted by kbadmin on October 11, 2006 - 1:26pm.

Why does it matter when it's posted? it establishes a very casual-minded development strategy which no doubt has affected this game.

And DAO, no?

[LegendaryBlade]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

>Play game
>Want a button to skip the game portions of game

Never change Hepler, never change

You can already do this with dialogue.  Unless you don't consider that a portion of the game. 

Oh come on, I love Bioware just as much as anybody, but you can't seriously defend the position of skipping the combat, inventory managing, or even exploration portions of games? You must as well watch a move, or if you must play a game, play something like Heavy Rain(Which does what it does very, very well). 

[atheelogos]

Fidget6 wrote...

I'm grateful for the fast forward button in the dialogue for when I do multiple playthroughs and don't want to listen to the same things each time I play.

THIS

[upsettingshorts]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Oh come on, I love Bioware just as much as anybody, but you can't seriously defend the position of skipping the combat

I'm not. I'm defending having the option exist for those who want to.

Tell me why you or I should dictate how anyone plays a single player game that they have purchased.

LegendaryBlade wrote...

inventory managing or even exploration portions of games?

See above.  You don't want a "skip planet scanning, automatically acquire resources" button in ME2?  That's fine.  I bet a lot of people do.

LegendaryBlade wrote...

  You must as well watch a move, or if you must play a game, play something like Heavy Rain(Which does what it does very, very well).

Again:  Why should you or I dictate how people enjoy single player games? 

We're talking about an option, a toggle of sorts, something that adds control and removes nothing.  These are usually greeted with great applause and attaboys by fans for being so fair and understanding.  Yet this generates complaint.  I smell an agenda.  Of the "get those new fans away from my game that I own and is mine and purposefully designed for me and no-one else because that's how it's always seemed despite it being an accident" kind.

At some point, the self-appointed "hardcore" fans - and I'm just talking about the ones who make a big deal of calling themselves such - are going to have to realize that other fans care as much, and have played such games as long as they do, despite having wildly different priorities and expectations from the same products.  When they do this they'll stop flailing at the casual gamer bogeyman.

Thankfully, many have.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 12:45 .

[Phonantiphon]

I really don't see the problem with giving you the choice.
I would never use it personally but I don't see why - if you are the sort of person who wants to skip the fights - you shouldn't be able to should you want to; again personally I think it neuters the game and would also introduce potential levelling and plot issues, but the point of a choice is that it IS a choice.
Also - what's the problem with the combat? Why should there not be reinforcements, why should there not be "trash mobs"?
It makes for a good fight, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Why are you getting so sniffy about it?
If there is one thing I have learned from these forums it's that *many* of the posters on here - (NOT all) - come across as hyper-conservative snobs with an extraordinarily narrow-minded viewpoint.

[Hexsun]

Maybe add a button so we can skip from start to end right away?

[upsettingshorts]

Hexsun wrote...

Maybe add a button so we can skip from start to end right away?

You mean like this? 

[terrordactyl1]

This has been done already. There are lots of disks with the gameplay skipped. IT'S CALLED A MOVIE.

[Vice-Admiral von Titsling]

In a game with sufficient story to be interesting without the fighting,
there is no reason on earth that you can't have a little button at the
corner of the screen that you can click to skip to the end of the
fighting.

Math is hard

[TonyTheBossDanza123]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Oh come on, I love Bioware just as much as anybody, but you can't seriously defend the position of skipping the combat

I'm not. I'm defending having the option exist for those who want to.

Tell me why you or I should dictate how anyone plays a single player game that they have purchased.

Because it's a video game. Not a movie, not a book, it's a game. If you can't see the logic in that, if you think this feature should be available, than I am literally dumbfounded. That's completely disregarding the immersion breaking mechanic of it. If you want to see some more in debth reasons, read the various treatise on why fast travel in games is bad.

[LegendaryBlade]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Oh come on, I love Bioware just as much as anybody, but you can't seriously defend the position of skipping the combat

I'm not. I'm defending having the option exist for those who want to.

Tell me why you or I should dictate how anyone plays a single player game that they have purchased.

LegendaryBlade wrote...

inventory managing or even exploration portions of games?

See above.  You don't want a "skip planet scanning, automatically acquire resources" button in ME2?  That's fine.  I bet a lot of people do.

LegendaryBlade wrote...

  You must as well watch a move, or if you must play a game, play something like Heavy Rain(Which does what it does very, very well).

Again:  Why should you or I dictate how people enjoy single player games? 

We're talking about an option, a toggle of sorts, something that adds control and removes nothing.  These are usually greeted with great applause and attaboys by fans for being so fair and understanding.  Yet this generates complaint.  I smell an agenda.  Of the "get those new fans away from my game that I own and is mine and purposefully designed for me and no-one else because that's how it's always seemed despite it being an accident" kind.

At some point, the self-appointed "hardcore" fans - and I'm just talking about the ones who make a big deal of calling themselves such - are going to have to realize that other fans care as much, and have played such games as long as they do, despite having wildly different priorities and expectations from the same products.  When they do this they'll stop flailing at the casual gamer bogeyman.

Thankfully, many have.

Because then, at the end of the day, it's hardly a game anymore. The rules and goals would just be something you could skip through with no challenge. Boss fight to hard? Skip it. Don't feel like grinding or looting? Skip it. Don't want to fully explore and play the game, don't want to really experience it? Skip all the way through it. Why even play the game if all you want to do is fly through it's plot points? It'd be easier to watch a Lets Play or just read a wiki. You could say "Well then, just don't play like that" but as long as that option is there, as long as that little skip button is so easy, it pulls you out of the experience. There's no more challenge, because there's no more need for one. 

Perhaps it could be implemented well as an unlockable, a lot of games in the N64 era had unlockable cheats that really broke the game, but you had to unlock them by beating the game or doing certain things, so there was still a challenge. Some games this would work even better for, like DMC games that are built as chapter by chapter, with a chapter or level select. But with the Dragonage games how they are? Why even play them if you don't want to....play them?

[upsettingshorts]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Because it's a video game. Not a movie, not a book, it's a game. If you can't see the logic in that, if you think this feature should be available, than I am literally dumbfounded.

That makes two of us.

To me skipping dialogue and cinematics is exactly the same thing as skipping combat.  Content is content. 

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

That's completely disregarding the immersion breaking mechanic of it.

Immersion is 100% subjective.

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

read the various treatise on why fast travel in games is bad.

Depends on the game genre.  A sandbox?  Agree entirely.   I don't like it in games like Oblivion. 

But that is again subjective.  I object to any blanket statements as to how any consumer must play their single player game.  It's dumbfounding.

[upsettingshorts]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Because then, at the end of the day, it's hardly a game anymore.

To you, even to me.  If the person skipping the combat enjoys it anyway, what's the problem?

What if they literally are playing DA2 because it's a movie that changes a little bit based on their choices and they can make the protagonist look how they want?

We do not really have the right to say they're doing it "wrong." Unless we're being elitists, and as a coffee elitist I feel just that way about people who make coffee at home without grinding their own beans. 

LegendaryBlade wrote...

The rules and goals would just be something you could skip through with no challenge. Boss fight to hard? Skip it. Don't feel like grinding or looting? Skip it. Don't want to fully explore and play the game, don't want to really experience it? Skip all the way through it.

All of these things could be replaced with dialogue, story choices, and cutscenes - things people skip all the time and no-one creates incredulous topics admonishing them for it.  Why even have a story-based cRPG then, when you can strip all that out and just have a hack and slash?  It's a two way street.

LegendaryBlade wrote...

Why even play the game if all you want to do is fly through it's plot points?

Because  you are not all players.  I am not all players.  

LegendaryBlade wrote...

It'd be easier to watch a Lets Play or just read a wiki.

But then you cannot roleplay.  Some players do roleplay in combat - I think Sylvius is one, I seem to recall him describing a timid character who always remained in the back of fights and tried to avoid them entirely - most do not.  The bulk of player roleplaying in cRPGs comes from dialogue and story decisions.  I don't think that's particularly controversial.

LegendaryBlade wrote...

You could say "Well then, just don't play like that" but as long as that option is there, as long as that little skip button is so easy, it pulls you out of the experience. There's no more challenge, because there's no more need for one.

Then have it disabled by default in the settings.  This same argument could apply to console commands and cheats.  Just because I know how to use runscript killallhostiles doesn't mean I did so when I was on try six versus the Arishok on Nightmare.  Because I was enjoying the challenge. 

LegendaryBlade wrote...

But with the Dragonage games how they are? Why even play them if you don't want to....play them?

Why do people skip dialogue in Bioware games known for their writing and characters?  

Because they don't care.  Same question, same answer. 

My only point is that no-one else should honestly give a damn about how another person plays a single player game.  Unless they are a game developer, then it's their job to.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 01:18 .

[Aidunno]

Going back to the interview...

If I was programmer doing the combat portion of the game I would naturally view that as one of the main parts of the game and would like to see people mainly enjoying that. If I was a writer dealing with the story, I would like people to concentrate on that. What's the problem?

Modifié par Aidunno, 17 mars 2011 - 01:18 .

[upsettingshorts]

Aidunno wrote...

If I was programmer doing the combat portion of the game I would naturally view that as one of the main parts of the game and would like to see people mainly enjoying that. If I was a writer dealing with the story, I would like people to concentrate on that. What's the problem?

Indeed, and yet the writers, voice actors, and cinematic designers can have quite literally all of their work skipped over with diligent pressing of the Escape button.

[Galad22]

TonyTheBossDanza123 wrote...

Because it's a video game. Not a movie, not a book, it's a game. If you can't see the logic in that, if you think this feature should be available, than I am literally dumbfounded. That's completely disregarding the immersion breaking mechanic of it. If you want to see some more in debth reasons, read the various treatise on why fast travel in games is bad.

You can already skip conversations, ten thousand trash mobs is not my idea of good game. I might have actually enjoyed the game if I was allowed to skip tedious and annoying combat.

Combat just isn't fun to me in DA2 and there is too much of it.

[jack_f]

Yep, the obvious solution to boring and tedious and repetitive combat is to add a FF button. Not, God beware, make the combat actually fun and engaging to play. This is what happens when you let people who don't like games design games.

[GregoriusMaximus]

This woman needs to be fired. The bits she wrote of the game are absolutely awful.

[Rockpopple]

She's talking about an OPTION for players who just want to enjoy the story. How did a 5 year old interview about older women gamers wanting more casual options like skipping fights influence BioWare to make the most fight-intensive fantasy RPG to date? DOES NOT COMPUTE!

I love the smell of Desperation in the morning. It smells like.... desperation.

[DinoCrisisFan]

Is it wrong to agree with her about skipping combat? I mean I would love to skip through games like Call of Duty without having to actually play that ****.

[Galad22]

jack_f wrote...

Yep, the obvious solution to boring and tedious and repetitive combat is to add a FF button. Not, God beware, make the combat actually fun and engaging to play. This is what happens when you let people who don't like games design games.

And why not? How is it any of your problem?

In a game with sufficient story to be interesting without the fighting,
there is no reason on earth that you can't have a little button at the
corner of the screen that you can click to skip to the end of the
fighting.

Modifié par Galad22, 17 mars 2011 - 01:49 .

[Derax]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SirShreK wrote...
You indeed are Bioware target audience. I hope you are not in the majority.  

Yup, have been since Baldur's Gate.   I'm also in the CD Project target audience.  Watch out.

Since Baldurs Gate? I don't believe it   


For me battle is already so simplified (in comparison to the precursor) that it is something like skipping it.

Modifié par Derax, 17 mars 2011 - 01:52 .

[upsettingshorts]

Derax wrote...

Since Baldurs Gate? I don't believe it  

BG1 was my second cRPG.  My first was Fallout 1.  I basically skipped the Ultima series, not sure why - it was years ago.  

Derax wrote...

For me battle is already so simplified (in comparison to the precursor) that it is something like skipping it.

What's simplified about attacks having force, melee AoE, cross class combos, and active dodge?  All things DAO lacked in part or in full.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 01:55 .

[Derax]

Galad22 wrote...

jack_f wrote...

Yep, the obvious solution to boring and tedious and repetitive combat is to add a FF button. Not, God beware, make the combat actually fun and engaging to play. This is what happens when you let people who don't like games design games.

And why not? How is it any of your problem?

In a game with sufficient story to be interesting without the fighting,
there is no reason on earth that you can't have a little button at the
corner of the screen that you can click to skip to the end of the
fighting.

Why not? Because do this and wait 5-10 years and we have only animated rpg/adventurer-films and no rpg-games anymore