360 réponses à ce sujet

[TOWERING FURY]

[I respectfully disagree with you.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 17 mars 2011 - 04:28 .

[upsettingshorts]

Derax wrote...

Why not? Because do this and wait 5-10 years and we have only animated rpg/adventurer-films and no rpg-games anymore

Ah the thin end of the wedge.  Good to see this line of argument going to truly thought provoking places.

[Maria Caliban]

Derax wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SirShreK wrote...
You indeed are Bioware target audience. I hope you are not in the majority.  

Yup, have been since Baldur's Gate.   I'm also in the CD Project target audience.  Watch out.

Since Baldurs Gate? I don't believe it   
For me battle is already so simplified (in comparison to the precursor) that it is something like skipping it.

Do you know what the most popular mod for BG II was? The flirt pack.

Do you know what the second most popular mod was? The 'skip dungeon' mod that sent you straight to the city instead of running around Irenicus' madhouse.

Have you ever heard of the skip Ostigar mod? The skip Fade mod? Have you ever read someone bemoan the utter tedium of the Deep Roads while another person pops in and talks about the fun of endlessly fighting in dark tunnels?

[Galad22]

Derax wrote...

Why not? Because do this and wait 5-10 years and we have only animated rpg/adventurer-films and no rpg-games anymore 

Rpgs are so much more than combat. In fact Combat should be a junior partner in rpgs.

See Planescape:Torment!

[Derax]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Derax wrote...

Since Baldurs Gate? I don't believe it  

BG1 was my second cRPG.  My first was Fallout 1.  I basically skipped the Ultima series, not sure why - it was years ago.  

Derax wrote...

For me battle is already so simplified (in comparison to the precursor) that it is something like skipping it.

What's simplified about attacks having force, melee AoE, cross class combos, and active dodge?  All things DAO lacked in part or in full.

In the battles i always do exactly the same thing ---> success.

Don't get it wrong: i really like the chracter-interaction but i do no think creating the skip button is the solution to bad battle-mechanics

[the_one_54321]

SirShreK wrote...

 http://www.killerbet...hepler?page=0,3

If you could tell developers of games to make sure to put one thing in games to appeal to a broader audience which includes women, what would that one thing be?A fast-forward button. Games almost always include a way to "button through" dialogue without paying attention, because they understand that some players don't enjoy listening to dialogue and they don't want to stop their fun. Yet they persist in practically coming into your living room and forcing you to play through the combats even if you're a player who only enjoys the dialogue. In a game with sufficient story to be interesting without the fighting, there is no reason on earth that you can't have a little button at the corner of the screen that you can click to skip to the end of the fighting.

No wonder Bioware games are becoming worse day by day!

There is not a smily that looks horrified enough for this.

Ms. Helper, what you describe already exists. They are called visual novels. They can be very entertaining.

BioWare does not need to make visuals novels. BioWare makes games. If you continue to suggest that BioWare should make visual novels, or that all games should be visual novels or have visual novel modes, I will personally and specifically loby to have you fired from BioWare.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 17 mars 2011 - 02:04 .

[Aidunno]

Derax wrote...


Why not? Because do this and wait 5-10 years and we have only animated rpg/adventurer-films and no rpg-games anymore 

Who says it will? You are looking at a writer saying things in a specific context rather than the team of people who produce an actual game.

[Derax]

Galad22 wrote...

Derax wrote...

Why not? Because do this and wait 5-10 years and we have only animated rpg/adventurer-films and no rpg-games anymore 

Rpgs are so much more than combat. In fact Combat should be a junior partner in rpgs.

See Planescape:Torment!

GOOD argument  (one of my favourits)


Although the comparison is blasphemy  

PT had not had any combat at all but as a compensation so much MORE.

DA without combat? ---> Hmm....

Modifié par Derax, 17 mars 2011 - 02:04 .

[Phonantiphon]

What people get out of the game is entirely up to them, some people find the fighting boring, I don't. Personally I like to fully immerse myself in the total experience, but that's just me.
Someone may for themselves get just as much fun out of the game by just doing the story-based aspects of it, or even vice-versa.
Does that make them wrong? No - it's just how they enjoy the game. It's their choice.
I don't really like fast travel but that does not mean that there should not be an option to allow it should someone want to do it from location to location.
I could choose to use it - (or more likely not to use it) - but nevertheless I could choose.
I bought the game and so it should therefore be up to me, within the available parameters to choose how to play it, and I choose to play all of it, every single bit of it.
Some of you go on an on and on about the combat. If you find it boring it's because YOU find it boring not because it IS boring, if that were the case we all would find it boring, which we clearly don't.
The inability to distinguish between your subjective experience and the fundamental base for those experiences that the game provides you with - (a general you) - is behind, I think, a lot of the more hysterical posts in these forums...

[Melra]

[Please do not quote/repost inappropriate material.]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 17 mars 2011 - 04:30 .

[upsettingshorts]

Derax wrote...

In the battles i always do exactly the same thing ---> success.

That is not my experience with DA2 or DAO.  Both games play fairly similar to me, with the exception of "you really really don't want your squishies to get aggro in DA2" and "tanks ought to think about seriously active dodging big bad guys in DA2."  

What don't I like?  The fact I can't give Isabela a bow or Merrill Healing powers.  That's about it, though.

Derax wrote...

Don't get it wrong: i really like the chracter-interaction but i do no think creating the skip button is the solution to bad battle-mechanics

It's not intended to be.  It's intended - at least in this context - to be a solution for people who simply do not care if the battle mechanics are good or bad, they just don't want to bother with them.

[AkiKishi]

Usually I love combat but in the case of DA2 I'd have cheerfully pressed the skip button after the umpteenth wave of pointless trash as I cross the city at night.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Do you know what the most popular mod for BG II was? The flirt pack.

Do you know what the second most popular mod was? The 'skip dungeon' mod that sent you straight to the city instead of running around Irenicus' madhouse.

Have you ever heard of the skip Ostigar mod? The skip Fade mod? Have you ever read someone bemoan the utter tedium of the Deep Roads while another person pops in and talks about the fun of endlessly fighting in dark tunnels?

I want sources. Irenicus's dungeon was one of the best parts of BGII!

[Xewaka]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Do you know what the most popular mod for BG II was? The flirt pack.
Do you know what the second most popular mod was? The 'skip dungeon' mod that sent you straight to the city instead of running around Irenicus' madhouse.
Have you ever heard of the skip Ostigar mod? The skip Fade mod? Have you ever read someone bemoan the utter tedium of the Deep Roads while another person pops in and talks about the fun of endlessly fighting in dark tunnels?

I want sources. Irenicus's dungeon was one of the best parts of BGII!

And the Fade is the best part of Origins, maybe tied with the Gauntlet.
And I mean it. Honestly.

[mesmerizedish]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

What don't I like?  The fact I can't give Isabela a bow or Merrill Healing powers.  That's about it, though.

Mods fix that ****, yo.

Xewaka wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I want sources. Irenicus's dungeon was one of the best parts of BGII!

And the Fade is the best part of Origins, maybe tied with the Gauntlet.
And I mean it. Honestly.

I really hope you're not being ironic, because I wasn't

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 17 mars 2011 - 02:05 .

[Pedrak]

There is combat and combat.

Combat with waves of identical enemies with no tactical elements whatsoever is filler combat - boring and obnoxious. I'd be glad to skip this too - it's the kind of obvious padding desperate DMs throw at their players when they can't figure out something more interesting for them. "You open the door and the room is full of trolls!", yawn.

Combat with stronger tactical elements like a good game of chess is another thing altogether.

Less combat, but of a higher quality, allowing the players to use alternative, creative tactical solutions, could be a good idea.

Modifié par Pedrak, 17 mars 2011 - 02:07 .

[Coldest]

If someone wants to sit through dialogue only and not the combat aspects then I suggest he or she go watch a movie.

[the_one_54321]

Xewaka wrote...
And the Fade is the best part of Origins, maybe tied with the Gauntlet.
And I mean it. Honestly.

Absolutely. The Fade rocks. It's the only time you're given a genuinely weird and disjointed experience in the character's abilities. But no, we have to hear "the fuzzy hurtz my eyeses!!" and "it's toooooo loooooonnng!!!"

Oh and the way you hear people groan about the deep roads around here, you'd think no one here ever played a good dungeon crawl across 5 or 6 hours at a table gaming session. Oh wait...
*grumble*<_<

Modifié par the_one_54321, 17 mars 2011 - 02:10 .

[Maria Caliban]

the_one_54321 wrote...

If you continue to suggest that BioWare should make visual novels, or that all games should be visual novels or have visual novel modes, I will personally and specifically loby to have you fired from BioWare.

I can just imagine the fear these words strike within Jenifer's heart.

[MCPOWill]

DAO began development around 2006 if I am not mistaken...

Don't just DA 2 was affected b/c logically if DA 2 was affected so was DAO, ME and ME2. Obviously none of these games have 'skip combat' option... unless you solve a situation in a way that avoids combat.

[SirShreK]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Derax wrote...

In the battles i always do exactly the same thing ---> success.

That is not my experience with DA2 or DAO.  Both games play fairly similar to me, with the exception of "you really really don't want your squishies to get aggro in DA2" and "tanks ought to think about seriously active dodging big bad guys in DA2."  

What don't I like?  The fact I can't give Isabela a bow or Merrill Healing powers.  That's about it, though.

Derax wrote...

Don't get it wrong: i really like the chracter-interaction but i do no think creating the skip button is the solution to bad battle-mechanics

It's not intended to be.  It's intended - at least in this context - to be a solution for people who simply do not care if the battle mechanics are good or bad, they just don't want to bother with them.

Hey I know the solution!

If you choose to know the solution turn to page 69 if your intelligence score exceeeds 2.

If not check page 28.

[Xewaka]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Xewaka wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
I want sources. Irenicus's dungeon was one of the best parts of BGII!

And the Fade is the best part of Origins, maybe tied with the Gauntlet.
And I mean it. Honestly.

I really hope you're not being ironic, because I wasn't

I explicitly used "honestly" rather than "unironically" to drive the point that I was, in fact, being honest, not inoric.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

If you continue to suggest that BioWare should make visual novels, or that all games should be visual novels or have visual novel modes, I will personally and specifically loby to have you fired from BioWare.

I can just imagine the fear these words strike within Jenifer's heart.

Hush, Maria, important people are talking.

[Derax]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Derax wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SirShreK wrote...
You indeed are Bioware target audience. I hope you are not in the majority.  

Yup, have been since Baldur's Gate.   I'm also in the CD Project target audience.  Watch out.

Since Baldurs Gate? I don't believe it   
For me battle is already so simplified (in comparison to the precursor) that it is something like skipping it.

Do you know what the most popular mod for BG II was? The flirt pack.

Do you know what the second most popular mod was? The 'skip dungeon' mod that sent you straight to the city instead of running around Irenicus' madhouse.

Have you ever heard of the skip Ostigar mod? The skip Fade mod? Have you ever read someone bemoan the utter tedium of the Deep Roads while another person pops in and talks about the fun of endlessly fighting in dark tunnels?

I know this i played bg tutu with many mods myself :>

I doubt the target group were people playing this the first time but people playing this again(like me)

I only fear what will happen to combat when the skip button is presented right from the beginning....

[mesmerizedish]

Xewaka wrote...

I explicitly used "honestly" rather than "unironically" to drive the point that I was, in fact, being honest, not inoric.

Some people are up to no good, and throw in words like "honestly" to emphasize the irony. My feelings on the Fade are... unpopular... and so I'm self-conscious when it comes to them.