360 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

SirShreK wrote...

Hey I know the solution!

If you choose to know the solution turn to page 69 if your intelligence score exceeeds 2.

If not check page 28.

I wonder if you know that I've even said explicitly - and repeatedly - that I've always (I'm talking since BG1 and Fallout 1, my first forays into the genre) treated cRPGs as choose your own adventure books with combat in em. 

Derax wrote...

I doubt the target group were people playing this the first time but people playing this again(like me)

You're getting dangerously close to discovering the truth about this "new target audience" vs. "old fans" thing.

A hint:  It's mostly bull****.

It's possible for different people to have the same experiences and derive enjoyment from different features and develop different expectations. 

That's how you get old fans like me who feel one way, and other old fans who feel differently.  Plus new fans who agree with either.  New and old doesn't have as much to do with it as either "side" leads themselves to believe.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 02:14 .

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

If you continue to suggest that BioWare should make visual novels, or that all games should be visual novels or have visual novel modes, I will personally and specifically loby to have you fired from BioWare.

I can just imagine the fear these words strike within Jenifer's heart.

Hush, Maria, important people are talking.

That poor woman.

Imagine getting the news that an random internet poster might hate something you said so much in an interview *five years ago* that they lobby to have you removed. She must be cold with terror.

Yes, Ms. Hepler, you thought you could escape your past.

But it's about to catch up with you.

[the_one_54321]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

SirShreK wrote...
Hey I know the solution!

If you choose to know the solution turn to page 69 if your intelligence score exceeeds 2.

If not check page 28.

I wonder if you know that I've even said explicitly - and repeatedly - that I've always treated cRPGs as choose your own adventure books with combat in em.

Yeah, but the combat is what makes it a game instead of just a choose your own adventure book. It's non-negotiable.

[Derax]

Pedrak wrote...

There is combat and combat.

Combat with waves of identical enemies with no tactical elements whatsoever is filler combat - boring and obnoxious. I'd be glad to skip this too - it's the kind of obvious padding desperate DMs throw at their players when they can't figure out something more interesting for them. "You open the door and the room is full of trolls!", yawn.

Combat with stronger tactical elements like a good game of chess is another thing altogether.

Less combat, but of a higher quality, allowing the players to use alternative, creative tactical solutions, could be a good idea.

Could not agree to this more! 

Skip buttons, from the developers, would only lead to even more uninteresting battles 

Then again this would mean we would go back to a game similar to bg  (sry could not resist)

Modifié par Derax, 17 mars 2011 - 02:15 .

[didymos1120]

Coldest wrote...

If someone wants to sit through dialogue only and not the combat aspects then I suggest he or she go watch a movie.

Movies don't let you pick which line the lead says.  They don't grant you any control over the plot.  They don't offer you much choice at all.  You can choose to watch or not watch, and if you're not in the theatre you can choose....to skip the crap you don't like. Your suggestion is, uh, off the mark. 

[Galad22]

Coldest wrote...

If someone wants to sit through dialogue only and not the combat aspects then I suggest he or she go watch a movie.

Look games can and should be (especially rpgs) more than just combat. Combat is important it is true but it shouldn't take more than 50% of the game. About 85% of DA2 is combat, this is just too much and it makes the game boring.

In my opinion this is because it is easier to put more and more trash mobs in front of you than doing actual content.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

That poor woman.

Imagine getting the news that an random internet poster might hate something you said so much in an interview *five years ago* that they lobby to have you removed. She must be cold with terror.

Yes, Ms. Hepler, you thought you could escape your past.

But it's about to catch up with you.

You're spoiling the plot of DAIII, stop! *sticks fingers in her ears* lalalalalala

[upsettingshorts]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Yeah, but the combat is what makes it a game instead of just a choose your own adventure book. It's non-negotiable.

For some. But again, this entire thread is essentially about a toggle.

I have never seen a toggle inspire this much vitriol simply at the suggestion that implementing one would make some people enjoy the game more.

Also this:

didymos1120 wrote...

Movies don't let you pick which line the lead says.  They don't grant you any control over the plot.  They don't offer you much choice at all.  You can choose to watch or not watch, and if you're not in the theatre you can choose....to skip the crap you don't like. Your suggestion is, uh, off the mark. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 02:17 .

[didymos1120]

the_one_54321 wrote...


Yeah, but the combat is what makes it a game instead of just a choose your own adventure book. It's non-negotiable.

That's just absurd.  Combat does not a game make.  Just ask Alexey Pajitnov.

[mesmerizedish]

didymos1120 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...


Yeah, but the combat is what makes it a game instead of just a choose your own adventure book. It's non-negotiable.

That's just absurd.  Combat does not a game make.  Just ask Alexey Pajitnov.

I don't know who that is, but he sounds like a commie. His opinions are invalid.

[the_one_54321]

Shavon wrote...
It's the stories, the characters, the plot, the morality choices, which made Bioware games so appealing to me. I'm a book worm, not some person who has to be in front of a tv screen slashing away at enemies.

They seriously need a "horrified" smiley, just for this thread.
Why do you bother playing video games? Great story, yeah yeah, I know. But it's two halves of the same coin. It's not a video game without the game part.

What you are saying is kind of like, if I went to your favorite author (assuming this person still lives and still writes) and said "hey, you know what? You write really great stuff. And I love the romance you portray in your books. But you know what they could really use? Some hard core sex images. In fact, forget the words. Can we just have pictures of people doing it? Or, if it's cool with you I'll just skip over the words to see the pictures."

Exact same concept. Just different bits that people like or don't like.

[Derax]

didymos1120 wrote...

Coldest wrote...

If someone wants to sit through dialogue only and not the combat aspects then I suggest he or she go watch a movie.

Movies don't let you pick which line the lead says.  They don't grant you any control over the plot.  They don't offer you much choice at all.  You can choose to watch or not watch, and if you're not in the theatre you can choose....to skip the crap you don't like. Your suggestion is, uh, off the mark. 

That is why people invented interactive films:maybe you should look at those. Or maybe you should play adventures.

TO play a good rpg there has to be at least some motivation created by good and tactical battles.

Modifié par Derax, 17 mars 2011 - 02:22 .

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I don't know who that is, but he sounds like a commie. His opinions are invalid.

Maker of Tetris.

[Galad22]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Shavon wrote...
It's the stories, the characters, the plot, the morality choices, which made Bioware games so appealing to me. I'm a book worm, not some person who has to be in front of a tv screen slashing away at enemies.

They seriously need a "horrified" smiley, just for this thread.
Why do you bother playing video games? Great story, yeah yeah, I know. But it's two halves of the same coin. It's not a video game without the game part.

What you are saying is kind of like, if I went to your favorite author (assuming this person still lives and still writes) and said "hey, you know what? You write really great stuff. And I love the romance you portray in your books. But you know what they could really use? Some hard core sex images. In fact, forget the words. Can we just have pictures of people doing it? Or, if it's cool with you I'll just skip over the words to see the pictures."

Exact same concept. Just different bits that people like or don't like.

Combat isn't the game part of the game. You really should get this.

[upsettingshorts]

the_one_54321 wrote...

They seriously need a "horrified" smiley, just for this thread.

I agree, for all the people who are seriously throwing themselves into an argument over how people should play single player games.

Over a toggle.  A toggle!  A suggestion of a toggle from five years ago! 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 02:22 .

[the_one_54321]

didymos1120 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
Yeah, but the combat is what makes it a game instead of just a choose your own adventure book. It's non-negotiable.

That's just absurd.  Combat does not a game make.  Just ask Alexey Pajitnov.

Tetris is fighting with blocks to make them fit together in an orderly manner. Replace combat with conflict or any other thusly appropriate term as needed.

[mesmerizedish]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Shavon wrote...
It's the stories, the characters, the plot, the morality choices, which made Bioware games so appealing to me. I'm a book worm, not some person who has to be in front of a tv screen slashing away at enemies.

They seriously need a "horrified" smiley, just for this thread.
Why do you bother playing video games? Great story, yeah yeah, I know. But it's two halves of the same coin. It's not a video game without the game part.

What you are saying is kind of like, if I went to your favorite author (assuming this person still lives and still writes) and said "hey, you know what? You write really great stuff. And I love the romance you portray in your books. But you know what they could really use? Some hard core sex images. In fact, forget the words. Can we just have pictures of people doing it? Or, if it's cool with you I'll just skip over the words to see the pictures."

Exact same concept. Just different bits that people like or don't like.

It's not the exact same concept. You're equating "game" with "combat." The two needn't have anything to do with one another.

Myst, the game that made a CD-ROM drive a necessity. had zero combat whatsoever. Guess what. It was still a game.

Gameplay comes in all shapes and sized. Conversations are gameplay. But you can skip them. Combat is also gameplay. It's not "more gamey" than the conversations just because you say it is.

[the_one_54321]

Galad22 wrote...
Combat isn't the game part of the game. You really should get this.

Some of you guys really should google Visual Novels. They've been around for years and no one has ever tried to seriously call them video games.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I don't know who that is, but he sounds like a commie. His opinions are invalid.

Maker of Tetris.

Tetris was actually my first video game ever.

That said, it's a game about making square-based polygons fit together so they make one giant mega-square-based-polygon. If that's not communist, I don't know what is.

[Xewaka]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Galad22 wrote...
Combat isn't the game part of the game. You really should get this.

Some of you guys really should google Visual Novels. They've been around for years and no one has ever tried to seriously call them video games.

Sure they did. They called them graphic adventures.

[Derax]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Shavon wrote...
It's the stories, the characters, the plot, the morality choices, which made Bioware games so appealing to me. I'm a book worm, not some person who has to be in front of a tv screen slashing away at enemies.

They seriously need a "horrified" smiley, just for this thread.
Why do you bother playing video games? Great story, yeah yeah, I know. But it's two halves of the same coin. It's not a video game without the game part.

What you are saying is kind of like, if I went to your favorite author (assuming this person still lives and still writes) and said "hey, you know what? You write really great stuff. And I love the romance you portray in your books. But you know what they could really use? Some hard core sex images. In fact, forget the words. Can we just have pictures of people doing it? Or, if it's cool with you I'll just skip over the words to see the pictures."

Exact same concept. Just different bits that people like or don't like.

It's not the exact same concept. You're equating "game" with "combat." The two needn't have anything to do with one another.

Myst, the game that made a CD-ROM drive a necessity. had zero combat whatsoever. Guess what. It was still a game.

Gameplay comes in all shapes and sized. Conversations are gameplay. But you can skip them. Combat is also gameplay. It's not "more gamey" than the conversations just because you say it is.

Myst --> adventure

DA/BG/PT ---> most likely RPG

Get it?

[mesmerizedish]

Some of the best tabeltop sessions I've played have resolved without combat, or even a single die roll. Sadly, those are too few and far between (and hey, combat is still fun). But they're there, and they're not going to go away because people sacrifice virgins to ward off evil toggles.

[Galad22]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Galad22 wrote...
Combat isn't the game part of the game. You really should get this.

Some of you guys really should google Visual Novels. They've been around for years and no one has ever tried to seriously call them video games.

Are you really this thick?

As Ismaeltheforsaken so eloquently explained gameplay comes in all shapes and sizes.

[mesmerizedish]

Derax wrote...

Myst --> adventure game

DA/BG/PT ---> most likely RPG game

Get it?

Get it?