360 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

People like "games" for lots of reasons.  No-one here can judge.  Especially since we're talking about a toggle.

Xewaka wrote...

Sure they did. They called them graphic adventures.

Note the past tense. 

[MorrigansLove]

Maria Caliban wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

If you continue to suggest that BioWare should make visual novels, or that all games should be visual novels or have visual novel modes, I will personally and specifically loby to have you fired from BioWare.

I can just imagine the fear these words strike within Jenifer's heart.

Hush, Maria, important people are talking.

That poor woman.

Imagine getting the news that an random internet poster might hate something you said so much in an interview *five years ago* that they lobby to have you removed. She must be cold with terror.

Yes, Ms. Hepler, you thought you could escape your past.

But it's about to catch up with you.

Are you a he or she? Just wondering.

[jack_f]

Choosing the tone of my reply in dialogues that all lead to the same outcome anyway is not gameplay.

[Derax]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I don't know who that is, but he sounds like a commie. His opinions are invalid.

Maker of Tetris.

Tetris was actually my first video game ever.

That said, it's a game about making square-based polygons fit together so they make one giant mega-square-based-polygon. If that's not communist, I don't know what is.

Sounds pornographic!! 

[Xewaka]

Derax wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
It's not the exact same concept. You're equating "game" with "combat." The two needn't have anything to do with one another.
Myst, the game that made a CD-ROM drive a necessity. had zero combat whatsoever. Guess what. It was still a game.
Gameplay comes in all shapes and sized. Conversations are gameplay. But you can skip them. Combat is also gameplay. It's not "more gamey" than the conversations just because you say it is.

Myst --> adventure
DA/BG/PT ---> most likely RPG
Get it?

If PT stands for "Planescape: Torment", I'll be forced to remind you that game had, at most, three mandatory fights.
Same for Deus Ex and Vampire the Masquerade Bloodlines. Both of which are considered great examples of cRPGs.

Modifié par Xewaka, 17 mars 2011 - 02:32 .

[upsettingshorts]

MorrigansLove wrote...

Are you a he or she? Just wondering.

As a spirit of Desire, I'm pretty sure the answer is whatever you want it to be.

jack_f wrote...

Choosing the tone of my reply in dialogues that all lead to the same outcome anyway is not gameplay.

Let me try that:  "Choosing the way in which I kill the dragon that will die anyway is not gameplay."

Yeah that argument doesn't really work, does it?  Considering you just said roleplaying wasn't gameplay.  In a forum about a roleplaying game. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 02:29 .

[the_one_54321]

Xewaka wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Galad22 wrote...
Combat isn't the game part of the game. You really should get this.

Some of you guys really should google Visual Novels. They've been around for years and no one has ever tried to seriously call them video games.

Sure they did. They called them graphic adventures.

Well maybe some of the folks here need to go and try out some of those graphic adventures.

And that's not even a "gtfo" comment. I'm serious suggesting they give them a try. I love the stories BioWare writes but they don't do character interaction even half as good as a number of those "games" do. (not half as bad as some of them as well, to be fair)

The story is half of what is important in a role playing game. The physical and plot conflicts are the other half. The challenges put before you and how you overcome them either through character actions or through fighting. Dialog is only a portion of what makes these games great. And there are way too many fans of BioWare that think the dioalog is everything.

[mesmerizedish]

jack_f wrote...

Choosing the tone of my reply in dialogues that all lead to the same outcome anyway is not gameplay.

If that's how you feel, then maybe RPGs aren't the genre for you?

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

you know the woman should be fired for making the most stupidest statement in games history, if there is no fighting or adventure its not a game its a conversation

[Xewaka]

the_one_54321 wrote...
Well maybe some of the folks here need to go and try out some of those graphic adventures.

May I suggest the revamped Secret of Monkey Island and Secret of Monkey Island 2?

Modifié par Xewaka, 17 mars 2011 - 02:31 .

[Sarakinoi]

SirShreK wrote...

 http://www.killerbet...hepler?page=0,3



If you could tell developers of games to make sure to put one thing in games to appeal to a broader audience which includes women, what would that one thing be?A fast-forward button. Games almost always include a way to "button through" dialogue without paying attention, because they understand that some players don't enjoy listening to dialogue and they don't want to stop their fun. Yet they persist in practically coming into your living room and forcing you to play through the combats even if you're a player who only enjoys the dialogue. In a game with sufficient story to be interesting without the fighting, there is no reason on earth that you can't have a little button at the corner of the screen that you can click to skip to the end of the fighting.

No wonder Bioware games are becoming worse day by day!

There is such a button, it is called the easy difficulty level.

[jack_f]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

jack_f wrote...

Choosing the tone of my reply in dialogues that all lead to the same outcome anyway is not gameplay.

If that's how you feel, then maybe RPGs aren't the genre for you?

Shallow dating sims like DA2 that try to pass as RPGs are not the genre for me, I'd say.

[upsettingshorts]

the_one_54321 wrote...

And there are way too many fans of BioWare that think the dioalog is everything.

They're still infinitely better than the one fan who thinks his views on what makes cRPGs and Bioware games what they are is the correct one.

jack_f wrote...

Shallow dating sims like DA2 that try to pass as RPGs are not the genre for me, I'd say.

In gaming terminology "shallow" and "simulation" are contradictory.

Also the only way one could get an impression that DA2 is a dating sim would be by reading these boards, not by actually playing it.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 02:34 .

[Derax]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

People like "games" for lots of reasons.  No-one here can judge.  Especially since we're talking about a toggle.

Xewaka wrote...

Sure they did. They called them graphic adventures.

Note the past tense. 

In the end people like their protagonist to get better / stronger and beat others. (that is why there are items/skill and so on...)

The more attachment the better! But without any combat it wouldn't be a rpg game anymore.

[the_one_54321]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

jack_f wrote...
Choosing the tone of my reply in dialogues that all lead to the same outcome anyway is not gameplay.

If that's how you feel, then maybe RPGs aren't the genre for you?

Choosing tone and personality is a portion of role playing. If you contest whether or not that's gameplay, fine, I won't argue that it is or isn't. But it doesn't make any difference if you want to specifically replace game with RPG or adventure or whichever. That stuff is only a portion of the role playing. It is incomplete without the other part.

[mesmerizedish]

jack_f wrote...

Shallow dating sims like DA2 that try to pass as RPGs are not the genre for me, I'd say.

Droll wit, thy name is jack_f! Alas, I am slain!

[the_one_54321]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
And there are way too many fans of BioWare that think the dioalog is everything.

They're still infinitely better than the one fan who thinks his views on what makes cRPGs and Bioware games what they are is the correct one.

Way to ad homenim.

And seriously, if all you want is the writing, if all you're after is the character interaction, there are "games" that do it a hell of a lot better than any BioWare game. Lots of them. All 100% dialog trees in all kinds of different settings.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 17 mars 2011 - 02:37 .

[Derax]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

jack_f wrote...

Choosing the tone of my reply in dialogues that all lead to the same outcome anyway is not gameplay.

If that's how you feel, then maybe RPGs aren't the genre for you?

I think you don't understand it.

He would prefer the dialogue options to result into several different outcomes, which actually reminds me exactly of a  RPG,

[Galad22]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

jack_f wrote...

Choosing the tone of my reply in dialogues that all lead to the same outcome anyway is not gameplay.

Let me try that:  "Choosing the way in which I kill the dragon that will die anyway is not gameplay."

Yeah that argument doesn't really work, does it?  Considering you just said roleplaying wasn't gameplay.  In a forum about a roleplaying game. 

How about it jack_f care to comment on this? I'd like to hear how this is different than conversations?

[mesmerizedish]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Choosing tone and personality is a portion of role playing. If you contest whether or not that's gameplay, fine, I won't argue that it is or isn't. But it doesn't make any difference if you want to specifically replace game with RPG or adventure or whichever. That stuff is only a portion of the role playing. It is incomplete without the other part.

Choosing tone and personality is all roleplaying is. You choose how you act. How anything outside your character reacts to you is never under your control, in a game as in real life. Whether I choose to be an ass or a saint, to fight that dragon, to sneak past it, or to bargain with it, even how I behave during a fight (and especially how I behave if there are no fights at all), all of these things are about me (the player) becoming the character. No where do I have any control over NPCs, other player characters, or the events and situations around me.

If there's a fight, there's a fight. If there's not a fight, there's not. None of that matters, because what makes it an RPG is how my character is, regardless.

[upsettingshorts]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
And there are way too many fans of BioWare that think the dioalog is everything.

They're still infinitely better than the one fan who thinks his views on what makes cRPGs and Bioware games what they are is the correct one.

Way to ad homenim.

Should I?  Why not:  You started it. 

Non ad-hominem version:  You do not have the authority to determine the "proper" way to approach cRPGs.  In a thread about a toggle you have called for the termination of one individual for suggesting - five years ago - that there be a toggle for people who disagree with your position.  Depending on my mood you've either implicitly or explicitly categorized anyone who doesn't agree as ignorant. 

And again:  Geezus people this is about a suggestion for a toggle from five years ago!  A SUGGESTION.  FOR A TOGGLE.   From a writer who has - I presume - little to no input over the kind of decisions that would even lead to such a toggle!

*head desk*

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 02:40 .

[Derax]

the_one_54321 wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

jack_f wrote...
Choosing the tone of my reply in dialogues that all lead to the same outcome anyway is not gameplay.

If that's how you feel, then maybe RPGs aren't the genre for you?

Choosing tone and personality is a portion of role playing. If you contest whether or not that's gameplay, fine, I won't argue that it is or isn't. But it doesn't make any difference if you want to specifically replace game with RPG or adventure or whichever. That stuff is only a portion of the role playing. It is incomplete without the other part.

Or you could think Bioware tries to mask that there isn't always a decision to make, hmm..


Played the game on the good side at first. Now I am playing it as a bad guy. 
There is not much of a diffrence: Is this good or bad?

Modifié par Derax, 17 mars 2011 - 02:40 .

[the_one_54321]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
Choosing tone and personality is all roleplaying is.

No, the other half of role playing is the system by which you determine how actions turn out. Figuring out whether or not you can win a fight or sneak past a dragon or cast a spell or what have you.

[mesmerizedish]

Derax wrote...

I think you don't understand it.

He would prefer the dialogue options to result into several different outcomes, which actually reminds me exactly of a  RPG,

I absolutely understand, as per my above statement.

That said, I think that when the outcome is the same regardless of how you act, how you act become infinitely more important from a role-playing perpesctive. If I have three different tones tied to three different outcomes, am I really roleplaying? Or am I just using the tools I have to achieve the optimum result?

But if the outcome is the same, then the only thing guiding my choice is my character. That is roleplaying in its purest.

[jack_f]

Derax, for example gets it, BDF plays dumb as expected.

So you don't have a problem with your choices all leading to the same outcome, or having cosmetic consequences at best?