360 réponses à ce sujet

[mesmerizedish]

the_one_54321 wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...
If getting around the fights should be implimented, it should be implimented within the games mechanics, not with an autowin button that coughs out experience and skips to the next section of the game. Not by doing away with entire aspects of the game like suggested in the article, where she said she hated managing inventory and essentially playing the ful scope of the game.

You know, older games used to have I Win buttons like that. What were they called? Oh yes, cheats.

Posting in solidarity with this.

Posting in solidarity with this, too. I also want conversations to be unskippable, except by game mechanics (like the dialogue options with the "fight" icon).

[EDIT] The above statement was made fairly ironically. That said, I wouldn't object.

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 17 mars 2011 - 03:00 .

[the_one_54321]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
You're acting like this suggestion doesn't have very serious implications when it really does.

Because it doesn't. 

Five years ago.  A writer.  Not a designer.  A toggle.  All hints that you guys just might be taking it a bit too seriously.

She still writes for them right now. If she still has this opinion she's in a place to have influence with it. And there are lots of fans who tell BioWare every day that "the stories are the best parts of your games." True, it's not like they have anounced the next BioWare game to have this "skip parts of the game" button, so it's not that serious. But it is still a matter that matters.

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I would love for "skip the fight" to be an actual implemented game mechanic - like through sneaking and diplomacy and whatnot, just to point that out.

We're still talking about a toggle though.

Making it part of the gameplay would be cool. Making it a toggle would not.

[mesmerizedish]

JohnEpler wrote...

...you're searching for something to be outraged about.

You don't say...

[LegendaryBlade]

JohnEpler wrote...

So now we're referencing a comment made by a writer in an interview five years ago? This is what we're getting worried and upset about now?

Seriously, folks. I am generally fairly understanding when you guys have concerns, but this feels like you're searching for something to be outraged about.

For the record, I really do think this is silly, i'm really here to debate something specific. Namely the idea of a 'I win' button. Infact, I don't think anybody is actually talking about the interview in the opening post beyond it's connection.

I do understand the concern, having a writer for their game that doesn't really like videogames would be an issue, and if this was brought up when the article was written i'd be on the bandwagon here. But she mentions she enjoy the Shadowrun Tabletop near the end of the interview, and I cannot hold a grudge with a fellow runner.

[the_one_54321]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...
If getting around the fights should be implimented, it should be implimented within the games mechanics, not with an autowin button that coughs out experience and skips to the next section of the game. Not by doing away with entire aspects of the game like suggested in the article, where she said she hated managing inventory and essentially playing the ful scope of the game.
You know, older games used to have I Win buttons like that. What were they called? Oh yes, cheats.

Posting in solidarity with this.

Posting in solidarity with this, too. I also want conversations to be unskippable, except by game mechanics (like the dialogue options with the "fight" icon).

[EDIT] The above statement was made fairly ironically. That said, I wouldn't object.

I know you're being ironic but I am totally with that too. "Skipping the talking bits" is just as bad as "skipping the fighting bits." I like being able to skip over the voice acting, but not over the dilalog in its entirety.

[Maria Caliban]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
[EDIT] Don't kid yourself. You're BDF and you know it

That's what I thought, but CoS Sarah Jinstar said I wasn't BDF I was "reasonable."

I'm as confused as anyone.  But you know I have my own labeling system anyway.  

According to your system, I'm a conservative who comes off as a radical on these boards because the games I base my ideals on aren't BG or IWD but Fallout, Deus Ex, Vampire: Masquerade, and Alpha Protocol.

[upsettingshorts]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Making it part of the gameplay would be cool. Making it a toggle would not.

Because of the slippery slope.  I can follow along you know.  I just don't buy that it's indicative of anything, certainly not the harbinger of wholesale gutting of gameplay now and forever!

Sometimes a toggle is just a toggle.  Other times it's just an idea a writer has when asked a direct question in an interview.

Maria Caliban wrote...

According to your system, I'm a conservative who comes off as a radical on these boards because the games I base my ideals on aren't BG or IWD but Fallout, Deus Ex, Vampire: Masquerade, and Alpha Protocol.

OT: Hmm, you'd probably be a liberal then - based on that post and later ones where I compiled some feedback.  You'd seek to alter the status quo (DAO) using examples from other systems (change to something else that is also familiar).

A radical would emphatically suggest changes that have never been done before.  Or are totally obscure.  That kinda thing. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 03:05 .

[mesmerizedish]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

For the record, I really do think this is silly, i'm really here to debate something specific. Namely the idea of a 'I win' button.

It's only an "I Win" button if the game's win conditions are predicated on combat, which they don't have to be.

To be fair, BioWare's games have (I think universally?) been. But since we're throwing around games like Planescape: Torment, I think the point still needs to be raised.

[the_one_54321]

LegendaryBlade wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...
So now we're referencing a comment made by a writer in an interview five years ago? This is what we're getting worried and upset about now?

Seriously, folks. I am generally fairly understanding when you guys have concerns, but this feels like you're searching for something to be outraged about.

For the record, I really do think this is silly, i'm really here to debate something specific. Namely the idea of a 'I win' button. Infact, I don't think anybody is actually talking about the interview in the opening post beyond it's connection.

I do understand the concern, having a writer for their game that doesn't really like videogames would be an issue, and if this was brought up when the article was written i'd be on the bandwagon here. But she mentions she enjoy the Shadowrun Tabletop near the end of the interview, and I cannot hold a grudge with a fellow runner.

Similarly, this started as outrage for me, but with more context became an issue of debating the concept of the "I win button." I don't like it. Though, if someone at BioWare were to continue to support the notion of an "I win button" now, I would still like for that person to work somewhere else.

[mesmerizedish]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...
[EDIT] Don't kid yourself. You're BDF and you know it

That's what I thought, but CoS Sarah Jinstar said I wasn't BDF I was "reasonable."

I'm as confused as anyone.  But you know I have my own labeling system anyway.  

According to your system, I'm a conservative who comes off as a radical on these boards because the games I base my ideals on aren't BG or IWD but Fallout, Deus Ex, Vampire: Masquerade, and Alpha Protocol.

According to his system, I don't exist, because I judge each game on its own merits.

That's not to say I don't compare games to one another. But my opinion of DAII is based on DAII, not on how it's similar/different to any other game.

[LegendaryBlade]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

LegendaryBlade wrote...
If getting around the fights should be implimented, it should be implimented within the games mechanics, not with an autowin button that coughs out experience and skips to the next section of the game. Not by doing away with entire aspects of the game like suggested in the article, where she said she hated managing inventory and essentially playing the ful scope of the game.

You know, older games used to have I Win buttons like that. What were they called? Oh yes, cheats.

Posting in solidarity with this.

Posting in solidarity with this, too. I also want conversations to be unskippable, except by game mechanics (like the dialogue options with the "fight" icon).

[EDIT] The above statement was made fairly ironically. That said, I wouldn't object.

The thing about dialog is that it is an unchanging event, just the same as cutscenes. While you can interact with it and change it, picking options will always result in the response set for that option. I don't think anybody who plays Bioware games skips dialog on their first playthru, but then, I could be wrong. In opposition, combat is something that requires a lot of direct interaction. You aren't just choosing an option from a list or a wheel.

I don't really 'skip' it myself, but I do keep subtitles on, and often times I am done reading it wel before the VA is done speaking.

[upsettingshorts]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

According to his system, I don't exist, because I judge each game on its own merits.

That's not to say I don't compare games to one another. But my opinion
of DAII is based on DAII, not on how it's similar/different to any other
game.

OT:  Nah those are centrists, who I refused to label because one centrist isn't likely to have the same opinion as another centrist the way someone who really loved BG2 is probably going to feel the same way about DA2 as another person who really loved BG2.

Also those labels worked better - I think - pre-release because they were mainly categorizing expectations.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 03:07 .

[the_one_54321]

Upsettingshorts wrote...
I just don't buy that it's indicative of anything, certainly not the harbinger of wholesale gutting of gameplay now and forever!

But it's so much more fun to talk about it that way...

[Maria Caliban]

JohnEpler wrote...

Seriously, folks. I am generally fairly understanding when you guys have concerns, but this feels like you're searching for something to be outraged about.

Is this really different from what we do the majority of the time?

[Phonantiphon]

If you skip the fights mind you, you should not "win" them, maybe some kind of ratio of assignment of points or indeed none at all.
I mean, if you don't put the work in...

[mesmerizedish]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

OT:  Nah those are centrists, who I refused to label because one centrist isn't likely to have the same opinion as another centrist the way someone who really loved BG2 is probably going to feel the same way about DA2 as another person who really loved BG2.

Also those labels worked better - I think - pre-release because they were mainly categorizing expectations.

Don't try to categorize me! I really loved BGII! And... stuff!

[the_one_54321]

LegendaryBlade wrote...
I don't really 'skip' it myself, but I do keep subtitles on, and often times I am done reading it wel before the VA is done speaking.

That's skipping the voice acting, not the dialog. Voice acting can be really neat but is abo****ely not a strict necessity.

[upsettingshorts]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Don't try to categorize me! I really loved BGII! And... stuff!

Got that reaction too.  Better than "haters" "trolls" "BDF" and "sheep" though, I think.  Anyway, I hadn't brought them up in a while so I figured I'd briefly derail a thread on the subject again just to fill my quota.

the_one_54321 wrote...

Voice acting can be really neat but is abo****ely not a strict necessity.

I feel the same way about Darkspawn.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 17 mars 2011 - 03:11 .

[John Epler]

Maria Caliban wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

Seriously, folks. I am generally fairly understanding when you guys have concerns, but this feels like you're searching for something to be outraged about.

Is this really different from what we do the majority of the time?

Generally, you folks try to stay chronologically relevant!

And I mean, Jennifer's entitled to her opinion. She's a writer - her primary job is to write. For some people, they play games primarily for the story. I personally don't agree, as I feel that gameplay should serve the narrative and as such there's no reason to allow it to be 'skipped', but I can see both sides of the argument.

But I'm still waking up. So maybe I'm missing something.

[mesmerizedish]

JohnEpler wrote...

Generally, you folks try to stay chronologically relevant!

And I mean, Jennifer's entitled to her opinion. She's a writer - her primary job is to write. For some people, they play games primarily for the story. I personally don't agree, as I feel that gameplay should serve the narrative and as such there's no reason to allow it to be 'skipped', but I can see both sides of the argument.

But I'm still waking up. So maybe I'm missing something.

Conversations serve the narrative and we can skip them. I don't think there's much reason to allow that. That said, as many people have pointed out, the article is five years old and is about a toggle.

But it's an OMZTOGGLEOFDOOMOMZ which is totally important right now, because Ms. Hepler is still writing for you guys. And we just know who's going to be writing the tooltip for this toggle*.






[EDIT]*OFDOOM

Modifié par ishmaeltheforsaken, 17 mars 2011 - 03:15 .

[jack_f]

The article is relevant because people who don't like games work on your games and it shows in your latest product.

[John Epler]

If it were up to me, no one would be able to skip conversations because by god I didn't crunch 14 hours a day, seven days a week just so someone could not sit and gaze in awe at my hard work!

But I understand why it exists. Just as I understand why some people would want this kind of toggle - personally, it's not something that interests me, but that's mostly because of a gut feeling that I really can't explain properly.

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

According to his system, I don't exist, because I judge each game on its own merits.

It's true, you don't exist. You are actually a self-sustained, sapient genetic polyp. Or a unicorn.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 17 mars 2011 - 03:21 .

[cipher86]

I sit through all the dialogue and cutscenes on my first playthrough, but on followups I usually skip most of it. It's hard to replay FFX because of the lack of cutscene skip, I'm glad more and more devs are providing this feature.

[Maverick827]

JohnEpler wrote...

Seriously, folks. I am generally fairly understanding when you guys have concerns, but this feels like you're searching for something to be outraged about.

Way to end a sentence with a preposition, John. I remember back when BioWare respected old school grammar rules! I guess this is just more of EA's corruption, what with all of their split infinitives and dangling participles strewn throughout their press releases.

For shame!