490 réponses à ce sujet

[v_ware]

I don't mind them experimenting.

As long as the result is good. So nuff said.

[slimgrin]

tulx wrote...

So many of you here call yourselves hardcore RPG and Bioware fans, you all loved DA:O so much, yet most posts about DA II I see are negative.

Let's get something straight. What a lot of fans are reacting to is EAware's lame ass business model. You know, the one where they spend more money on promotional gimmicks and pointless DLC than they do making a quality game. 

[Cataca]

This has been a really ammusing read OP, i will reply in equaly humurous tounge:

It is indeed true that us, the poor consumers are depending on bioware to supply us with games, even if many of us are disgruntled with the direction they chose to go into with this game, one should not voice their critics in hope for a better release next time, that is just like biting the hand that feeds us.

Things such as blatantly reused areas, and the armada of bugs that made it past quality controll that were ever so obvious. All shal be ingored, for it gives them more time otherwise spent on debugging to get DLC and the sequel out. Cut corners and pressing out games with a one year dev. cycle is EVOLUTION.


At any rate, lets get this straight, Bioware is depending on us not the other way round. As consumers we have the right to be critical of the product. Bar all the subjective flaws like storyline and the combat system (imho), this game has glaring issues with bugs and has the uttmost minimum of work spent in it to make it workable. Its fine if people put up with that, but im not going to.

[zeejay21]

Putting my 2 cents in a month old thread and by now, I might be notorious by tickling people off (my speciality actually):

OP, I agree. DA2 is a different game than what people had expected. It is simply human nature that some people are having trouble embracing change. I found out that most people here are PC RPG vets who wants or needs the old RPG charm back. So far, they have been disappointed.

So as you can see, DA2 is quite amazing in revealing two sides of it's audiences:

1) RPG purists who doesn't want or need change &

2) Gamers who appreciates variety


There are people who defended DA2 such as yourself and there also people who are on the fence - people like me (though few). I did say the game is weaker than DA:O and Mass Effect 2 but I also mentioned that it was great, different, refreshing game. It's the first game that have me interested in the characters as well as the story more (after braving the messy structure) than any game.

In the end, for me, it was enjoyable and even taught me to be sarcastic. I was a little disappointed, yes but not so much. It was worth my money and time.

As for people who's... extremely disappointed at the game needs to take a deep breath and enjoy life - there's more that life can offer.

[Riloux]

Dragon Age 2 is hardly an RPG and it was made by EAware, not our beloved Bioware. Therefore, I do not have to comply.

Bringing it further? Sure, further towards the abyss of mindless shooter games. I don't think you can call yourself a hardcore RPG gamer if you enjoyed Dragon Age 2 so fervently.

In short - stop whining and start appreciating. There are too few developers who risk to evolve their biggest franchises - don't force Bioware to make cookie-cutter games like Activision does now.

It wasn't so much taking risks as it was cutting corners. All because of their limited development time and poor leadership. It sure as hell could have been a great game had they been given more time to flesh out, but ultimately they should not have changed so much if they knew they had such little time. 

Modifié par Riloux, 22 avril 2011 - 11:12 .

[CloudOfShadows]

bEVEsthda wrote...

CloudOfShadows wrote...

Well. I agree with the OP.

I think Bioware did a good thing, they made a game that I enjoyed. The mistake they made is that they didn't wrap Origins in blue paper and sold it as a Blue Edition. Then the fans could have bought the game again and enjoyed it all over again. Maybe a simple effect to have everything in the world slightly blue to enhance the variety.

Seriously, the amount of self-declared hardcore rpg fans who moan about DA2 is just amazing, it must be a great game simply because it inspires so much hatred. Makes me wonder if I'm wrong about it just being a good game with some flaws.

DA2 is not a good game. It's a decent console game. Not more. But the only reason I would ever buy a game like DA2 is the Dragon Age franchise as such: So if Bioware released a string of serious RPGs like DA:O, DA:O2, DA:O3 etc every third year, and they also pushed a series of linear games with emphasis on action and consoles, like DA2, DA2-2, DA2-3 etc, every 18 months, I'd actually buy all of them too. Even for $60.
- But, if the DA:O series didn't exist - I'd never buy a single of the DA2-games, not even for $9.95.
As far as I'm concerned, I was tricked into buying DA2.

DA2 is a really good game. Very enjoyable, and I only played it on the PC.

Do you think repeating something often makes it any less or more true?

As for me? I only bought it after playing the demo, and I was convinced to buy it because of it, I wouldn't have bought it if they had just rereleased Origins, and I hope they continue to make new games, rather than remake old ones.

[bEVEsthda]

Cataca wrote...
At any rate, lets get this straight, Bioware is depending on us not the other way round. As consumers we have the right to be critical of the product. Bar all the subjective flaws like storyline and the combat system (imho), this game has glaring issues with bugs and has the uttmost minimum of work spent in it to make it workable. Its fine if people put up with that, but im not going to.

I've complained about many things in DA2. But:
DA2 did, does have some minor bugs. Like all games. But straight out of the box, it's one of the most bug free games I've played. Certainly much better than DA:O. And nothing to gripe about.
And bugs aren't the world. Bloodlines was a quite buggy game on release. Much because a load of content had not yet been inserted into the game before the publisher forced a release. It was still a wonderful game, I wouldn't have missed it for just a few crashes (just save often, like). (btw. there are now unofficial patches available that put content back into Bloodlines and fix most bugs):
Now my final comment: You DO KNOW that 95% of all cracked games available through Pirate Bay are, to some extent, dysfunctional? Right?
Don't make the mistake thinking the boxed version is necessarily the same.

[zeejay21]

bEVEsthda wrote...

95% of all cracked games available through Pirate Bay are, to some extent, dysfunctional? Right?

I assumed you don't 'full preview' games as much. Understandable. No offense.

[ZakafeinX]

IF they released the toolset i bet mods would make this game just fine.

[LyndseyCousland]

tulx wrote...

In short - stop whining and start appreciating. There are too few developers who risk to evolve their biggest franchises - don't force Bioware to make cookie-cutter games like Activision does now.

In short, no.

[tulx]

Thank you for your opinions and flames, everyone.

I've learned to respect both tastes, but still think that DA2 is a very wellcome precedent in the gaming industry. BW could have easely made another game right ontop of DA:O and millions would have happily bought it, including me.
The thing we're ought to respect here, I think, is that BW dared to re-invent their mayor AAA franchise, instead of milking it dry. Of course the game has faults, like the frequent re-use of areas. BW have admitted it, although I have a hard time immaganing how they could makea game about a heros life in a city without ever repeating areas....of the same city.
But DA2 has its strengths as well - like a more mature of original story (dropping the "kill evil boss" cliche), more distinctive and deep companion characters and, obviously, superior visual representation.
Bottom line - I'm happy BW dared to bring fresh air into a gaming industry of otherwise stagnating cookie-cutter sequels of once great and original games. I'm sure a lot more people will learn to appreciate DA2 once DA3 (or DA:O2) comes out and we'll be able to see how the franchise has profited from this daring experiment named DA2.
Having said that - it's also important to continue voicing CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Just keep in mind that the gaming world would be a far worse place if all developers stuck to re-using one game over and over and over again, so don't freak out if someone dares to change something - appreciate it.

Modifié par tulx, 22 avril 2011 - 11:10 .

[tulx]

ZakafeinX wrote...

IF they released the toolset i bet mods would make this game just fine.

Yes - I was wondering why the toolset is not being launched. That would definitely increase the lifespan of the game. There are quite a few mods around already, but they're quite shallow without a toolset.

[tulx]

tulx wrote...

Thank you for your opinions and flames, everyone.

I've learned to respect both tastes, but still think that DA2 is a very wellcome precedent in the gaming industry. BW could have easely made another game right ontop of DA:O and millions would have happily bought it, including me.
The thing we're ought to respect here, I think, is that BW dared to re-invent their mayor AAA franchise, instead of milking it dry. Of course the game has faults, like the frequent re-use of areas. BW have admitted it, although I have a hard time immaganing how they could makea game about a heros life in a city without ever repeating areas....of the same city.
But DA2 has its strengths as well - like a more mature of original story (dropping the "kill evil boss" cliche), more distinctive and deep companion characters and, obviously, superior visual representation.
Bottom line - I'm happy BW dared to bring fresh air into a gaming industry of otherwise stagnating cookie-cutter sequels of once great and original games. I'm sure a lot more people will learn to appreciate DA2 once DA3 (or DA:O2) comes out and we'll be able to see how the franchise has profited from this daring experiment named DA2.
Having said that - it's also important to continue voicing CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Just keep in mind that the gaming world would be a far worse place if all developers stuck to re-using one game over and over and over again, so don't freak out if someone dares to change something - appreciate it.

[tulx]

doublepost

[Stegoceras]

tulx wrote...

Thank you for your opinions and flames, everyone.

I've learned to respect both tastes, but still think that DA2 is a very wellcome precedent in the gaming industry. BW could have easely made another game right ontop of DA:O and millions would have happily bought it, including me.
The thing we're ought to respect here, I think, is that BW dared to re-invent their mayor AAA franchise, instead of milking it dry. Of course the game has faults, like the frequent re-use of areas. BW have admitted it, although I have a hard time immaganing how they could makea game about a heros life in a city without ever repeating areas....of the same city.
But DA2 has its strengths as well - like a more mature of original story (dropping the "kill evil boss" cliche), more distinctive and deep companion characters and, obviously, superior visual representation.
Bottom line - I'm happy BW dared to bring fresh air into a gaming industry of otherwise stagnating cookie-cutter sequels of once great and original games. I'm sure a lot more people will learn to appreciate DA2 once DA3 (or DA:O2) comes out and we'll be able to see how the franchise has profited from this daring experiment named DA2.
Having said that - it's also important to continue voicing CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. Just keep in mind that the gaming world would be a far worse place if all developers stuck to re-using one game over and over and over again, so don't freak out if someone dares to change something - appreciate it.

I agree that innovation and progress are a good thing when it comes to games. But I have to question whether you believe that this was change in the sake of innovation or change in the sake of getting a bigger cut. Besides was it really innovation or is simply borrowing from ones neighbours.

That said, I personally wouldn't have minded had they stuck to DA:O mechanics and/or kept their new ideas for a new line.

[mykeme]

bEVEsthda wrote...


Now my final comment: You DO KNOW that 95% of all cracked games available through Pirate Bay are, to some extent, dysfunctional? Right?

That's a lie.

[Teredan]

You might be content to throw your money at bioware for whatever they're throwing on you.
I'm not. I see nothing wrong with voicing my disappointment and making it clear that if those things are not fixed that I won't lay my money for their games anymore.

If they think they can afford to let go of that part of the costumers that didn't like DA2 good for them. Life will go on and other and surely better games will come around.

[Cataca]

tulx wrote...

stuff

Look, i think you are misunderstanding something here. Nothing was "reinvented" the combat mechanics were tweaked, and the animations were as well. The responsiveness of how fast your (or other) character(s) act has been changed, which is neat but "reinventing" a system is somewhat streched for a game that had a one year dev. cycle. Lets be clear here that the core mechanics are still the same.

All in all, i have nothing against the "new" combat system, other than the ridiculously overblown animations. What changed was, that now any resemblance of tactics has been taken out, due to the ridiculous respawn mechanics. Every second enemy can teleport now, which, according to DA:O lore is impossible. Fights are uselessly drawn out with bloated hp bosses and spawn mechanics (that are beyond immersion breaking).

Every other point you present is highly subjective. I personally find the characters in DA2 to be incredibly bland compared to other games. The story (political struggle of 2 major ruling parties in a land at the brink of war) is not quite new to the genre, to put it mildly. Nor is a story that is centered at the rise of power of someone. The story wasnt presented properly due to how it was burried in a bazillion sidequests (that readily confused the hell out of me, not heaving the patience to take one after the other). And personally, i really struggled to finish the game, only to be presented with a scene of a companion that i killed in DA:O. But. i will readily accept that those points represent my own feeling, they are not facts. You say they are.

[Cataca]

bEVEsthda wrote...

Cataca wrote...
At any rate, lets get this straight, Bioware is depending on us not the other way round. As consumers we have the right to be critical of the product. Bar all the subjective flaws like storyline and the combat system (imho), this game has glaring issues with bugs and has the uttmost minimum of work spent in it to make it workable. Its fine if people put up with that, but im not going to.

Now my final comment: You DO KNOW that 95% of all cracked games available through Pirate Bay are, to some extent, dysfunctional? Right?
Don't make the mistake thinking the boxed version is necessarily the same.

I have the original, played and deinstalled before the 1.02 patch came out. I normally dont bother to register my games, i see DLC's as something that blow the terms "overpriced" out of proportion. My game was RIDDLED with bugs left and right. Things like the same cutscene playing twice, unfinishable quests, corrupted savegames, all the fun stuff.

[Iwasdrunkbro]

tulx wrote...

So many of you here call yourselves hardcore RPG and Bioware fans, you all loved DA:O so much, yet most posts about DA II I see are negative. You should really be THANKFULL for what Bioware is daring to do with such a lucrative franchise as Dragon Age.
The developers are right to push you out of your comfort zone and bring the franchise in another direction, bring it FURTHER. Do you really want this to tur into another CoD where they cough up a more expensive version of the same game each year? Call of Duty Modern Warfare is a great game, it really is, but if you played MW 1, you have absolutely no reason to play MW2 or Balck Ops - it's exactly the same. I played MW1 and MW2, now I can't event tell which episode was from which game - they are so alike.
Do you want the same to happen with Dragon Age? Where there's a bunch of games which all copy the first and milk the same old formula? For how long can you listen to the same song before you start to get sick of it?

As things are now, you have reason to go back and play Origins after you've played Dragon Age II. Because it's DIFFERENT, not just the same game with outdated graphcs and smaller explosions. Enjoy the variaty.

In short - stop whining and start appreciating. There are too few developers who risk to evolve their biggest franchises - don't force Bioware to make cookie-cutter games like Activision does now.

I should appreciate how characters that died in my origins save just randomly come back to life? Maybe I should appreciate the fact that instead of working on core game elements, like environments, Bioware busy working on DLC? Should I appreciate that the story is much more linear? The fact that I cant customise my party? What aspects of this mess should I be thankful for exactly? The 'new' combat system that exchanges complexity for wave apon wave of the same enemey to the point that I want to throw the keyboard against the wall?

Thank you Bioware. Im thankful for your rushed product that you lowered down to $15 2 months after I paid $60.

[Darkhour]

tulx wrote...

So many of you here call yourselves hardcore RPG and Bioware fans, you all loved DA:O so much, yet most posts about DA II I see are negative. You should really be THANKFULL for what Bioware is daring to do with such a lucrative franchise as Dragon Age.
The developers are right to push you out of your comfort zone and bring the franchise in another direction, bring it FURTHER. Do you really want this to tur into another CoD where they cough up a more expensive version of the same game each year? Call of Duty Modern Warfare is a great game, it really is, but if you played MW 1, you have absolutely no reason to play MW2 or Balck Ops - it's exactly the same. I played MW1 and MW2, now I can't event tell which episode was from which game - they are so alike.
Do you want the same to happen with Dragon Age? Where there's a bunch of games which all copy the first and milk the same old formula? For how long can you listen to the same song before you start to get sick of it?

As things are now, you have reason to go back and play Origins after you've played Dragon Age II. Because it's DIFFERENT, not just the same game with outdated graphcs and smaller explosions. Enjoy the variaty.

In short - stop whining and start appreciating. There are too few developers who risk to evolve their biggest franchises - don't force Bioware to make cookie-cutter games like Activision does now.

One can't deny your logic.

I like DA:O; therefore, I want something completely different in the sequel than the qualities that made me like the original in the first place. Makes complete sense.

I think ME3 should play like Final Fantasy 6. God forbid a sequel be like it's predecessor.  That would just be stupid. 

[Lyssistr]

tulx wrote...

So many of you here call yourselves hardcore RPG and Bioware fans, you all loved DA:O so much, yet most posts about DA II I see are negative. You should really be THANKFULL for what Bioware is daring to do with such a lucrative franchise as Dragon Age.
The developers are right to push you out of your comfort zone and bring the franchise in another direction, bring it FURTHER. Do you really want this to tur into another CoD where they cough up a more expensive version of the same game each year? Call of Duty Modern Warfare is a great game, it really is, but if you played MW 1, you have absolutely no reason to play MW2 or Balck Ops - it's exactly the same. I played MW1 and MW2, now I can't event tell which episode was from which game - they are so alike.
Do you want the same to happen with Dragon Age? Where there's a bunch of games which all copy the first and milk the same old formula? For how long can you listen to the same song before you start to get sick of it?

As things are now, you have reason to go back and play Origins after you've played Dragon Age II. Because it's DIFFERENT, not just the same game with outdated graphcs and smaller explosions. Enjoy the variaty.

In short - stop whining and start appreciating. There are too few developers who risk to evolve their biggest franchises - don't force Bioware to make cookie-cutter games like Activision does now.

If someone should be thankful it's Bioware, they get the monies. People don't like DA II that's all, they should have made a better game and people would have liked it.

[AlanC9]

slimgrin wrote...


Let's get something straight. What a lot of fans are reacting to is EAware's lame ass business model. You know, the one where they spend more money on promotional gimmicks and pointless DLC than they do making a quality game. 

Promotional gimmicks, sure. But since DLC makes money, I don't see how it drains money from the production. Unless you're talking about all those promo items?

[Addai]

Loyalty is a two-way street. The devs have talked a lot of trash about Origins, and consequently those who like Origins, from the minute they started talking about Awakening. Certainly in the run-up to DA2 and in the follow-up. Fair and honest disappointment over getting much less game is within the bounds of a consumer, which is what we are- not sycophants.

Modifié par Addai67, 22 avril 2011 - 05:34 .

[PlumPaul93]

LyndseyCousland wrote...

tulx wrote...

In short - stop whining and start appreciating. There are too few developers who risk to evolve their biggest franchises - don't force Bioware to make cookie-cutter games like Activision does now.

In short, no.

 this