490 réponses à ce sujet

[Aratark]

I see it slightly differently I guess, where I would say I do have some brand/product loyalty. I've never had a bad LG phone, so will always look to see if they have a model that meets my requirements when I need a new phone before looking elsewhere. BW have never disappointed me with a game, so if I'm looking for a new one and I see a BW game I haven't played, it will be near the top of my list to buy.

I see it as a different style of loyalty. I'd never expect David Gaider to give me a kidney if I needed one or vice versa, but in the sphere of brand/product loyalty, I'd say I'm BW loyal.

[Volourn]

Do you buy every BIO product, or service? i have my doubts...

[Aratark]

I've not bought everything, but then when I had time to follow football, I was a wimbledon fan but didn't go to every game. Didn't make me any less of a fan.

[randName]

Aratark wrote...

I see it slightly differently I guess, where I would say I do have some brand/product loyalty. I've never had a bad LG phone, so will always look to see if they have a model that meets my requirements when I need a new phone before looking elsewhere. BW have never disappointed me with a game, so if I'm looking for a new one and I see a BW game I haven't played, it will be near the top of my list to buy.

I see it as a different style of loyalty. I'd never expect David Gaider to give me a kidney if I needed one or vice versa, but in the sphere of brand/product loyalty, I'd say I'm BW loyal.

Same - or I considered myself a fan back in the day, and than I wasn't for selfish reasons as I found that the NWN OC didn't live up to my expectations, and then slowly over the years BioWare built back the trust I once had that they would deliver quality products to the point that I started to preorder them again.

I'm no zealot on the other hand, nor do I hate BioWare for DA2 or NWN OC, just don't like either product as both made me lose loyalty to the company, but what it entails is simply that I'll be more careful in the future when it comes to BioWare games, as I was after the NWN OC.

Modifié par randName, 22 avril 2011 - 09:05 .

[Volourn]

Because you acted smart. You aren't loyalt to BIO, youa re loyalt oy ourself. If BIO makes games you want you buy them and reward them for their efforts. if not, you move on. That's the way conumkerism NOT loyalty works.

A sibling of mine can screw up and do soemthing i dissaprove of but I won't turn my back on them. I will always be there for them. Not BIO. BIO does something i dislike, I will not support them. Period.

[randName]

Aratark wrote...

I've not bought everything, but then when I had time to follow football, I was a wimbledon fan but didn't go to every game. Didn't make me any less of a fan.

+1.

An apt comparison, or I'm a small fan of many sports and clubs, and all I do is that when they have important games I'll follow it over radio or by checking some webpage for news, that's all - I still consider myself a fan, albeit a small one, and I'm also loyal to the clubs as I'll stay with them even if they fail or do badly.


Unless they do something that I feels betrays the core values I placed in the club (I placed, not they, so it's enteirely subjective).


Personally I think I overreacted with NWN OC, as they apparently proved with the expanisions to that game, expansions I never tried since I was sick of BioWare after the OC as I had been expecting a lot more from it than I was given. My take on it now is that I expected too much of the campaign, and should have been more patient with NWN given what the goals of the product was.

With DA2 I simply lost enough trust/loyality in BioWare that I won't preorder for some time, and avoid their games before the verdict is out, not that I'll avoid them like I did after NWN OC - and I'm on the verge of wanting to pre-order ME3 despite DA2, something I easily would have done if DA2 was half decent (for me).

Now if BioWare contiues the streak they had before DA2 and does't sink to the level of DA2(subjective opinion) I'll probably be back buying most of their ARPGs and cRPGs (if any), or if the ME3 proves themselves again I might simply be back on that teams bandwagon.


& I won't send angry letters or threathen them with pitchforks and the like, nor will I dislike BioWare unless they do something akin to eating babies and torturing people.

[randName]

Volourn wrote...

Because you acted smart. You aren't loyalt to BIO, youa re loyalt oy ourself. If BIO makes games you want you buy them and reward them for their efforts. if not, you move on. That's the way conumkerism NOT loyalty works.

A sibling of mine can screw up and do soemthing i dissaprove of but I won't turn my back on them. I will always be there for them. Not BIO. BIO does something i dislike, I will not support them. Period.

You are twisting the words, to be loyal is simply to have or show continuing allegiances, not that you would never abandon such allegiances.

[rolson00]

tulx wrote...

termokanden wrote...

Oblivion a golden oldie? Wow. To put it into perspective I saw this whole discussion when Oblivion was released. It has been dumbed down for the console, what is happening with RPGs, it's the end of the world and so on.

Hehe - just wait for Dragon Age 3 and you'll hear: "WTF Bioware, give us back the good old classic DA 2!!!11!"

I was looking at the Mircosift forum one day and a moderator had posted a montage of Windows complaints. People flamed Win 2000 for being a dunbed down version of 95, they flamed XP for being a slow eye-candy mutation of Win 2k and so on.

Just don't be a pussie and embrace the progress. You'll change your mind anyway - why not side with it right one?

thats really not very fair most people who say they like it agree with the people who don't like it. both sides are right in different ways. bioware looks to what fans like and don't like thats how they'v always done things

Modifié par rolson00, 22 avril 2011 - 09:28 .

[bEVEsthda]

Aratark wrote...

TL:DR at bottom of post

I think part of the problem , from my perspective, is that there is this feeling of 'HARDCORE RPGer' against 'casual player'. I've been a role-player (table-top PnP, Larp and videogame) for nigh on 30 years. I've played the classics and some obscure ones. I would say this pretty much puts me in the hardcore classification. However, I couldn't finish DA:O when I first got it. It didn't feel new, it didn't feel innovative, it didn't feel different. It might as well have been IWD, NWN, BG, PS:T or pretty much any other video game rpg that had come before. The Big Evil awaiting you at the end, the feeling of the world depending on you (or at least a fairly major country or continent); it all seemed just a rehash of previous games. I took a break from playing, came back and have finished the game a number of times now.

I caught some of the hype over DA2 and heard from the beginning it wasn't going to be DA:O2. From the get go, we were told there were going to be substantial changes to it. I then made a concious decision to try and avoid all of the marketing hype that was going to surround it. Having done some marketing work, I'm familiar with the concepts they use, and how what they try and sell through marketing isn't what the product finally delivers. As a result, I missed all the button=awesome hype (something I wish I could still say is true, especially when the whole argument a large number of people can come up with is based on this marketing strategy rather than a well thought out comment)

My missus bought me DA2 on release day as a surprise. I wasn't planning on getting it straight out the gate, mainly to try and avoid some of the almost inevitable bugs there would be. In my first playthrough, I missed most of them, with just a couple of freezes spoiling my enjoyment. Completed my first playthrough in a few days and found I really enjoyed it.

Yes, I really said that. Someone who identifies themselves with the hardcore RPG element saying they really enjoyed the game. I'm not saying it is without flaws (re-used areas being one of the major ones) however, I liked the game I played.

I found the stories to be interesting and well thought out, if not slightly poorly executed. I'd have preferred to have had a shorter act 1 and a longer act 3, but I felt they had done a reasonable job setting up the act 3 story with some of the sidequests in the first 2 acts. As I've commented elsewhere, some cut-scenes between the acts showing how we moved between them would have benefited the story immensely, however, they aren't there so it is slightly moot at this point.

For the people who say there wasn't a protagonist in this game, I would humbly suggest you are mistaken. There was no Big Evil, however, the city of Kirkwall was the protagonist. The apathy that allowed the mages to be treated they way they were compared to Circles in other cities, the Kirkwall Chantry being unable to keep their martial arm under control, the bias and xenophobia of the Kirkwallians toward the Fereldan refugees; these are all part of the make-up of the city that was what you were fighting.

I'd have liked to have seen more time spent on the game to polish out a number of things that weren't all they could be, however, I was happy to see BW move away from their comfort zone a little and show that they can do something different. If I'm still playing videogame RPG's in 20 years (will be approaching 60 then) I don't want to see BW producing what is essentially BG23 at that point. I'd like to have a new BW game released for me to buy, I'd like for it to be an RPG, I'd like it to have some of the staples of what a BW game is seen to be, but please not another re-hashing of something we've seen hundreds of times before.

*******TL:DR************

I like the game for what it is, not what it isn't. I'm a long time rpger with a fine pedigree of gamesplayed, but I like something different every now and then. DA2 provided that something different with enough familiarity that I didn't feel like I was going out on a limb to try it.

Edit:  I apologise for a little of my grammar, I'm slightly intoxicated and cba going through and correcting it all.

Good puppy. Have a bisquit.
Also so good of you to take time to care about old Volourn. Not many do. We're such a heartless bunch.
About that TL:DR though: I kinda dislike such benevolence. The proper response to TL:DR folks is: TS:DC (and 'S' doesn't stand for 'short')

[Aratark]

That's scary, you've just used two of my other half's favourite phrases.

I'm in a good mood today, not sure why. A bit of benevolence fitted my mood. I may have to shower later. Will have to remember TS:DC though

[JabbaDaHutt30]

tulx wrote...

termokanden wrote...

Oblivion a golden oldie? Wow. To put it into perspective I saw this whole discussion when Oblivion was released. It has been dumbed down for the console, what is happening with RPGs, it's the end of the world and so on.

Hehe - just wait for Dragon Age 3 and you'll hear: "WTF Bioware, give us back the good old classic DA 2!!!11!"

this will never happen.

[MorseDenizen]

tulx wrote...

kevin cousland wrote...

CoD is a male organ.

Thank you for bringing value to this conversation.

lolol brilliant retort!

[toggled]

I'll proceed under the assumption that the OP is serious and is looking for a serious reply.

I don't mind that the developers changed things in DA2. I like change. What I don't like is content which was obvious rushed, corners which were obviously cut. Bioware used to be know for QUALITY, but with DA2, the developers obviously decided to to cash in on Bioware's reputation in order to make some quick cash. The people who made this decision don't really care about Bioware or Bioware's future; they only think as far as the next bonus.

[Mysterygent]

Thankful for what?!

Thankful for a sucky game??

[Volourn]

"The people who made this decision don't really care about Bioware or Bioware's future; they only think as far as the next bonus."

The BIO docs made the decision, and since BIO is their baby they can do what they want with it. If that means making Sonic: RPG than so be it even if, Volourn, dissaprove of such a decision. My opinion is irrelevant.

[Anathemic]

Volourn wrote...

"The people who made this decision don't really care about Bioware or Bioware's future; they only think as far as the next bonus."

The BIO docs made the decision, and since BIO is their baby they can do what they want with it. If that means making Sonic: RPG than so be it even if, Volourn, dissaprove of such a decision. My opinion is irrelevant.

See this is what seperates BioWare from the lovable game dev companies that is Blizzard and CD Projekt RED

[AlanC9]

Volourn wrote...

There is no such thing as 'BIO fans'. It's a myth.

Didn't you use " I am a brainwashed BIO fan" as a sig over on the Codex?

[Euno17]

© 2011 EA INTERNATIONAL (STUDIO AND PUBLISHING) LTD, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

That's all I'm going to say.

[Volourn]

"Didn't you use " I am a brainwashed BIO fan" as a sig over on the Codex?"

Sarcasm. Learn.it. Love it. Hate it.


"See this is what seperates BioWare from the lovable game dev companies that is Blizzard and CD Projekt RED"

CD Project has made the same crappy overrated game like 5 different times and needed to leech off BIO's name to sell it yet they are still barely surviving.

Blizzard is a very successful company but otuside of finding Diablo okayish fun, Blizzard just makes games I don't give a crap about. Plus, both these companies are just like BIO is they don't really listen tof ans either nor should they.


P.S. Why should BIO stop making a game like S:RPG just b/c I dissaprove of it? That be rather lame, and cowardly.

[Gavinthelocust]

Archmage Traven disapproves of necromancy.

[Anathemic]

Volourn wrote...

"Didn't you use " I am a brainwashed BIO fan" as a sig over on the Codex?"

Sarcasm. Learn.it. Love it. Hate it.


"See this is what seperates BioWare from the lovable game dev companies that is Blizzard and CD Projekt RED"

CD Project has made the same crappy overrated game like 5 different times and needed to leech off BIO's name to sell it yet they are still barely surviving.

Blizzard is a very successful company but otuside of finding Diablo okayish fun, Blizzard just makes games I don't give a crap about. Plus, both these companies are just like BIO is they don't really listen tof ans either nor should they.


P.S. Why should BIO stop making a game like S:RPG just b/c I dissaprove of it? That be rather lame, and cowardly.

Errr CD Projekt RED has only made one game so far and that is The Witcher 1. And how is CD Projekt RED leeching off BioWare? Last I recall they got rid of BioWare's rusty Aurora Engine because it was inadequate to produce what they wanted so they created their own new engine. Not to mention The Witcher 1 generated alot of sale, I think the company is doing fairly fine. Not to mention its sister company GoG is producing income from releasing DRM-free games, and also not to mention they are under the publisher CD Projekt.

Blizzard is successful because they listen and care about their fans. How did World of Warcraft become so successful at the early launch? The fans. Not to mention the fiasco when Blizzard wanted to implement Real-ID in their forums the fans raged and outcried thus the idea was quelched. In the Blizzard/fan relationship, the fans actually have influence and power. As for BioWare? I think their fanbase achieved... lifting a ban off someone?

Modifié par Anathemic, 23 avril 2011 - 03:11 .

[Volourn]

"Errr CD Projekt RED has only made one game so far and that is The Witcher 1"

Yeah, and they've made it half a dozen times. Are they ever gonna make a non Witcher game?

"And how is CD Projekt RED leeching off BioWare?"

They used the Aurora, they used this forum, they sued this site, they used BIO too pimp TW. If it wasn't for BIO I never would have paid attention to TW. I was actually pretty pimped and such a TW fanboy pre release.

" Last I recall they got rid of BioWare's rusty Aurora Engine because it was inadequate to produce what they wanted so they created their own new engine."

Um.. Thery were pimping Aurora with TW1. TW2 is a different story because at this stage Aurora is a 0 year old game. Of course they're bound to change engines. And, if you py attention, companies love to bash their previous works to pimp their new ones.

" Not to mention The Witcher 1 generated alot of sale, I think the company is doing fairly fine."

That's what i thoguht too, but sadly it isn't true. They are barely hanging on,and they really need TW2 to sell a lot or else they can be eveven in worse trouble.

" Not to mention its sister company GoG is producing income from releasing DRM-free games, and also not to mention they are under the publisher CD Projekt."

Sister company won't safe them. if CD Project Red can't make money they will collapse.

btw, I'm not saying I want them to fial. I don't care. Even though I didn't care for the TWO I'm ambileveat b/c maybe one day they'll make a game I like but facts are facts. They're not on solid ground currently.


"Blizzard is successful because they listen and care about their fans. How did World of Warcraft become so successful at the early launch? The fans. Not to mention the fiasco when Blizzard wanted to implement Real-ID in their forums the fans raged and outcried thus the idea was quelched. In the Blizzard/fan relationship, the fans actually have influence and power. As for BioWare? I think their fanbase achieved... lifting a ban off someone?"

BIO's biggest problem is they listen to their 'fans' too much not that they listen to them not at all. BIO would make vastly better games if they simply ignored the whiny punks on these fourms. Some of the changes that even i dislike are because of these stupid forums.

[PinkysPain]

tulx wrote...
Do you want the same to happen with Dragon Age? Where there's a bunch of games which all copy the first and milk the same old formula? For how long can you listen to the same song before you start to get sick of it?

The existence of **** sandwiches don't improve a ham and cheese sandwich for me ... and I certainly won't eat the former just for variety either.

Now DA2 is not ****, but it is sub-standard in a way no previous Bioware game has been ... and not even in the glorious but buggy way of say Troika games. DA2 is simply a cash grab designed by second stringers with overinflated egos.

[Volourn]

"Now DA2 is not ****, but it is sub-standard in a way no previous Bioware game has been "

It's not as substandard as KOTOR, S:RPG, SS, and MDK2.

[Anathemic]

Volourn wrote...

Yeah, and they've made it half a dozen times. Are they ever gonna make a non Witcher game?

How the hell did they recreate it a dozen times? There isn't a Witcher series spanning 12 different games, the only games CD Projekt RED produced/attempted to produce are, The Witcher, The Witcher: Rise of the White Wolf, The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings. That's 3 games. So tell me how does 3 = 12?

Volourn wrote...

They used the Aurora, they used this forum, they sued this site, they used BIO too pimp TW. If it wasn't for BIO I never would have paid attention to TW. I was actually pretty pimped and such a TW fanboy pre release.

When did CD Projekt RED sue BioWare? Source please.

Volourn wrote...

Um.. Thery were pimping Aurora with TW1. TW2 is a different story because at this stage Aurora is a 0 year old game. Of course they're bound to change engines. And, if you py attention, companies love to bash their previous works to pimp their new ones.

Yes they heavily modified Aurora with TW1, and again the engine itself was inadequate to what they sought to produce in the first place, so they created a new engine. What's the problem here? Dev companies borrow engines all the time such as the Unreal Engine.

Volourn wrote...

" Not to mention The Witcher 1 generated alot of sale, I think the company is doing fairly fine."

That's what i thoguht too, but sadly it isn't true. They are barely hanging on,and they really need TW2 to sell a lot or else they can be eveven in worse trouble.

Volourn wrote...

" Not to mention its sister company GoG is producing income from releasing DRM-free games, and also not to mention they are under the publisher CD Projekt."

Sister company won't safe them. if CD Project Red can't make money they will collapse.

btw, I'm not saying I want them to fial. I don't care. Even though I didn't care for the TWO I'm ambileveat b/c maybe one day they'll make a game I like but facts are facts. They're not on solid ground currently.

How is CD Projekt RED barely hanging on? Source please. CD Projekt RED is just but a branch of CD Projekt responsible for making games. The general of CD Projekt is in collaboration with Disney in producing DVDs, so tell me, is Disney going to fail too?

Volourn wrote...

BIO's biggest problem is they listen to their 'fans' too much not that they listen to them not at all. BIO would make vastly better games if they simply ignored the whiny punks on these fourms. Some of the changes that even i dislike are because of these stupid forums.

This here I can agree with.

Modifié par Anathemic, 23 avril 2011 - 03:35 .