490 réponses à ce sujet

[termokanden]

Dr. Impossible wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

The intent behind Dragon Age 2 is clear: this is your family, you're going to get to know them over a long period of time.

I see.

I actually prefer the tabula rasa method. Like, in New Vegas your character has no background beyond the fact that he/she is a courier. In Fallout you're a resident of Vault 13, and that's about it.

BioWare is moving away from role-playing, now their games are more like choose your own adventure-type of deals.

I also prefer to shape my own character's story completely. If it's done well in the game anyway.

But playing a specific role is still roleplaying. Like when your gamemaster hands you your character and you have to be the one to act out that personality. You're still going to do it your own way so there will be choices involved. And it's definitely roleplaying.

[MDT1]

cosgamer wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

tulx wrote...

Just don't be a pussie and embrace the progress. You'll change your mind anyway - why not side with it right one?

So your, reaction is to pull your pants down, bend over and take it? Well at least we know what team your batting for.

If
it gves you comfort to dismiss all critisism as trolling and remain
willing to be blithely oblivious to the obvious problems present then
okay, I just intend to seriously reconsider any purchase from Bioware
after this debacle.

The only way in which I will buy
another Dragon Age game is if they return it more towards a traditional
RPG and the development time is sufficient for a good game.  As for
their others...I doubt if I will make another purchase.  I liked ME, but
ME 2 not so much and I have no faith in ME 3.

I must agree with the part about DA though I love both ME games.

Modifié par MDT1, 17 mars 2011 - 03:13 .

[this isnt my name]

Your right, becuase I am an RPG fan I should suck up to BW and should be trying to kiss ass for giving me a rushed, copy paste koney grab.

No here is the thing. You thatnk devs for making GOOD choices, key word, good.

[Dr. Impossible]

termokanden wrote...

But playing a specific role is still roleplaying. Like when your gamemaster hands you your character and you have to be the one to act out that personality. You're still going to do it your own way so there will be choices involved. And it's definitely roleplaying.

Yes, but BioWare does not handle it well so the result is only somewhat like role-playing (the most glaring problem I can remember is not being able to see Tali's face in ME2, even though Shepard - supposedly you - is looking right at it). The voice acting and cinematic presentation also make it seem more like an adventure game.

[TJSolo]

tulx wrote...

KenKenpachi wrote...

Yeah this won't end well, so far as shocking as it sounds the opinion on here and 4 Chan is in the minority, most people I've spoken to around me have enjoyed Dragon Age 2 and are laughing at the forums if they even bother going near them. Its funny how many gamers don't go-online to sites like these. Its a minority here, but like many in the west they seem bigger than they are as they scream from the roof tops like hysterical barbarians.

I sure hope you're right.
This IS a common scene around the internet. I currently play Age of Conan as well, and, judging by the forum, the game seems like hell itself. When I log into the actual game, it all seems quite alright.
Still, reading this game bashing in every thread is kind of depressing. Can't the mods make a flaming section where the trolls can just discharge their agression?

Of course he is right. He is using his minority of friends to denounce the minority of 4chaners and minority of people that don't like the game, when a minority agrees with you they might as well be the majority.
Too bad those damned capitalist value money from the minority and majority equally.

[ftg]

Dr. Impossible wrote...
Fresh? It's a heavily dumbed down version of Baldur's Gate with one of the most generic fantasy settings ever created.

Right, and DA2 is some strange half-rpg, half choppy God of War thing also with the same generic fantasy setting disguised in a black/red/earth tone art scheme. It tried to be something different, but didn't fully commit to anything because it wanted to appeal to everyone, because everyone is where they can sell their product.

[OminousJester]

It's funny... A lot of things that are being complained about were problems with the first one. DAO was buggy, reused areas, not very polished and had horrible graphic issues.

So they make DA2. It is buggy (like all bioware games, if you don't believe me go play some), reuses areas and is not very polished.

And I still love both of them. I don't notice DA2 being any more dumbed down than DAO. Practically the same combat, just a little faster paced, the story evolves a lot better and I LOVE how they implemented the dialogue wheel and the persistent amount that has the more choices you make along a certain path. All improvements over DOA. Yet it is dumbed down? Some people just **** to ****.

[Insom]

This game is a step backwards. It probably would be even if it wasn't rushed. This game has almost no audience cause the COD crowd doesn't like it any more than RPG fans.

[Il Divo]

OminousJester wrote...

It's funny... A lot of things that are being complained about were problems with the first one. DAO was buggy, reused areas, not very polished and had horrible graphic issues.

So they make DA2. It is buggy (like all bioware games, if you don't believe me go play some), reuses areas and is not very polished.

And I still love both of them. I don't notice DA2 being any more dumbed down than DAO. Practically the same combat, just a little faster paced, the story evolves a lot better and I LOVE how they implemented the dialogue wheel and the persistent amount that has the more choices you make along a certain path. All improvements over DOA. Yet it is dumbed down? Some people just **** to ****.

It's kind of ironic because, much as I may love Mass Effect 2, I thought DA2 brought alot more innovation to the dialogue wheel in terms of handling.

And at least the bugs are better than Obsidian games.

[TJSolo]

It's funny... A lot of things that are being complained about were problems with the first one. DAO was buggy, reused areas, not very polished and had horrible graphic issues.

There are very few complaints about DA2s performance, which was the bulk of DAOs issues at launch. Most of the DA2 complaints are about implementation.
Resued areas were a complaint from DAO at launch? No.

[this isnt my name]

OminousJester wrote...

It's funny... A lot of things that are being complained about were problems with the first one. DAO was buggy, reused areas, not very polished and had horrible graphic issues.

So they make DA2. It is buggy (like all bioware games, if you don't believe me go play some), reuses areas and is not very polished.

And I still love both of them. I don't notice DA2 being any more dumbed down than DAO. Practically the same combat, just a little faster paced, the story evolves a lot better and I LOVE how they implemented the dialogue wheel and the persistent amount that has the more choices you make along a certain path. All improvements over DOA. Yet it is dumbed down? Some people just **** to ****.

I agree they both had issues, however, recycling is worse, you hear of lots more bugs. and personally I would like DA2 graphics if it wasnt one city, that limits variety.

DA2 is more dumbed down, mainly in the inventory section, and the fact that people have played it like a button masher and beat the game like that with no tactics.
Also its imo it fails becuase to fast to be as tactical as origins and too slow to be a full action game imo. It tries to please two opposites and so it falls short on either side.
(I like DA2 story more, moral grey and not generic fight evil, blah blah, crap (not saying origins was crap, but original it was not))
Dialouge wheel imo is a terrible thing, you dont know exactly what you will say also it makesit obvious, instead of thinking how a character reacts its just "this one makes you an ass" "this one leads to sex" so kinda shallow imo.

Not improvements, they may be to you, but to me they areissues, the only good partare the story and the artwork for things like loadscreens (whatever artist did the screens should do them in 3).

Also cliffhanger ending  for sequal/dlc. Atleast DAO ad an epilouge, here its the same, it changes about 2 words, not even giving the illusion your choice matters, fail.

[this isnt my name]

Il Divo wrote...


And at least the bugs are better than Obsidian games.

True.
But atleast Obsidian still makes good rpgs. Falllout NV.

Ah Obsidian if only you had better testers you could be so great.

[Insom]

cosgamer wrote...

Uh-uh.  The amount of area reuse between DA:O and DA 2 is not close.  DA 2 takes it to a whole other and very unacceptable level.

DA2 takes it to another level from most games ever made. They didn't reuse that much stuff in games made for the N64 and PS1.

[Slayer299]

tulx wrote...
So many of you here call yourselves hardcore RPG and Bioware fans, you all loved DA:O so much, yet most posts about DA II I see are negative. You should really be THANKFULL for what Bioware is daring to do with such a lucrative franchise as Dragon Age.

I wasn't aware I had to be *thankful* for changes I don't see as improving DA2, my $60 does show my appreciation of the company but it does not prohibit me from pointing out what are valid problems with a game that is unfinished and filled with problems (enemies falling from the sky, the same dungeon, outside area 52435 times)

As things are now, you have reason to go back and play Origins after you've played Dragon Age II. Because it's DIFFERENT, not just the same game with outdated graphcs and smaller explosions. Enjoy the variaty.

Variety? Variety you say? LOL, this is the same game that used the EXACT same dungeon and outside areas ad nauseum in order to give us "More" content? Yeah, right! 

In short - stop whining and start appreciating. There are too few developers who risk to evolve their biggest franchises - don't force Bioware to make cookie-cutter games like Activision does now.

 
It's not whining when what is paid for is not worth $60 dollars. It's not whining when the dev team either thinks we won't notice/care or has too little time to properly put together a game (18 mos) that is filled with problems that are instantly obvious to everyone. I don't know about you, but I have bills to pay and forking over $60 for a poorly made, unfinished game made with too little design time is not going to have me start *appreciating* them. I like BW, but DA2 was not BW quality.


edit - annoying formatting

Modifié par Slayer299, 17 mars 2011 - 03:29 .

[Il Divo]

this isnt my name wrote...

True.
But atleast Obsidian still makes good rpgs. Falllout NV.

Ah Obsidian if only you had better testers you could be so great.

It's interesting because much as I may love Bioware, I feel like Obsidian has even greater potential as a gaming company if only they would:

1) Fix all their bugs.
2) Extend development time.

Most reasons why their reviews are lower have been to one of these two reasons, as Kotor 2, Neverwinter Nights 2, and Alpha Protocol demonstrate.

[M47R1X]

Well in my experience of playing through Dragon Age: Origins about 20+ times (seriously, the only other game I have done this with is Sonic & Knuckles) and now being about halfway through DA2 (both on the 360 by the way, working on the PS3 version as well), I have to say that DA2 is a good game. It is shorter, it does have repeated environments, it does change some things that don't need changing (i.e. why in the heck does Flemeth look SO different when she has just met the Wardens? This could have been a golden opportunity BW. Make her look like a normal, crazy old witch like she did in DA:O [sure, change the face, you did it to everyone else anyways], and later on when you see her next [no spoilers, but if you know what I'm talking about, then this should make sense] have her in her "battle garb." It would have helped tie old and new art styles together).

The battle system feels SO much better on the console version than DA:O. I've played the demo for DA2 on the PC as well as the full version of DA:O (dear LORD I own too many copies of that game) and the combat feels... weird... on the PC. I dunno. It may be just me. I like the bold new art style with the STRONG EXCEPTION OF ELVES. WHY do they look like they've played too much rugby? What is WITH the noses? The eyes, fine; the nose, bleh. On Fenris it looks alright, but really, that's about it. Why not go the other direction, making the noses tiny and pointed like an anime character (no, I'm not an anime nerd BTW).

I was kinda thankful for the gender preference being taken out for the most part (not really for myself, but I'm supportive ya know), but WHY has Isabela been played up so much on the "tart-ness?" Sure, she was sultry in DA:O, but now she's worse than Zevran. While funny at times, this game is supposed to be for adults, not 15 year-olds who would giggle like little school girls at that.

I do appreciate BioWare ditching the BioWare formula of:

__________Main Quest
Prologue --> Main Quest --> Climax --> Ending
__________Main Quest

It was a nice touch. Surely the big-time critics can't all be wrong. This game deserves more than a 4.2 on MC. The problem there is that it's more biased to PC gamers using Steam, and the battle system as I said is really odd now on the PC. I would say this game is an 8.7 or so for consoles, points docked for repeated environments, continuity issues in regards to art style (should've just left Ferelden alone), less compelling story. Do love the framed narrative. PC I would say a 7.3 for the same plus the battle system.

Just my thoughts. Back to homework now.

Modifié par M47R1X, 17 mars 2011 - 03:33 .

[Tirigon]

tulx wrote...

Do you want the same to happen with Dragon Age? Where there's a bunch of games which all copy the first and milk the same old formula? For how long can you listen to the same song before you start to get sick of it?

As things are now, you have reason to go back and play Origins after you've played Dragon Age II. Because it's DIFFERENT, not just the same game with outdated graphcs and smaller explosions. Enjoy the variaty.

In short - stop whining and start appreciating. There are too few developers who risk to evolve their biggest franchises - don't force Bioware to make cookie-cutter games like Activision does now.

Besides that I disagree with your liking towards CoD - imo, all are equallly bad - YES, I would prefer DA2 to be a DAO clone with a new story to what it is now.

I don´t mind the changes as much as I did at first anymore, as I´m  getting used to it, but I still prefer DAO.

There were things that could be improved in DAO, but DA2´s changes didn´t bring this improvement.

Evolving a franchise by improving it is fine and desirable. Completely changing it is not. Imo anyways.


More power to those who enjoy DA2 though, I´m mature enough to accept different tastes, I just wish those who like DA2 more than DAO would accept different opinions too.

[this isnt my name]

Il Divo wrote...

this isnt my name wrote...

True.
But atleast Obsidian still makes good rpgs. Falllout NV.

Ah Obsidian if only you had better testers you could be so great.

It's interesting because much as I may love Bioware, I feel like Obsidian has even greater potential as a gaming company if only they would:

1) Fix all their bugs.
2) Extend development time.

Most reasons why their reviews are lower have been to one of these two reasons, as Kotor 2, Neverwinter Nights 2, and Alpha Protocol demonstrate.

Obsidian have great ideas, but they really let themselves down with the bugs, look at fallout new vegas, great game. But its so hated becuase of the bugs, which is a shame, fallout 3 was good but lacked in atmosphere, and story, NV did that well and I liked how my choices mixed, but as much asI love the game I cant den it is very buggy. Such a shame, still I hope they learn from this, and hopefully someone like Zenimax pick them up, lets face it skyrim hasnt exactly been rushed out, then they just need to fix the bugs which after AP and NV I assume they will be more focused on them.

[Soilborn88]

tulx wrote...

carlosjuero wrote...

How about we appreciate that everyone has differing opinions? You are no more right than the people who do not like DA 2 - both are opinions. Pure and simple.

It's just that most people seem to have a negative stance by default - regardless of what the developer does. Once a franchise is established and has lost its "underdog" tag, people start bashing it no matter what. CoD kept copying their original formula, and the whole gaming scene is in uproar. Bioware attempts to evolve its franchises (Dragon Age and Mass Effect) and people are in uproar.
Seems they just don't knew what they want.

People are not happy with DA2 for many reasons. Bioware took obvious shortcuts and tried to make the game more appealing to other gaming crowds who normally wouldn't play an RPG. They combined action, RPG, and Adventure elements and the game turned out average at best.

There aren't a lot of quality cRPGs on the market these days. Origins was probably the best one released in a long time. People want new games, new content, it's no fun dwelling on games that are over 10 years old because there is nothing better. I love Fallout 1 and 2 and Planescape but I want something new, Origins gave me exactly what I was craving and I had a lot of expectations for DA2.

If people don't like RPGs don't play them and quit complaining. Bioware appealed to other crowds and as a result destroyed the core RPG elements in DA2.

It's easy to understand why people are angry, but it's people like you who refuse to see why. Because you don't care about RPGs.

Modifié par Soilborn88, 17 mars 2011 - 03:38 .

[Mlaar]

tulx wrote...
Thing is - people rarely embrace change willingly - they need to be forced to it. And it's good that BW is doing it. Baldur's Gate, Arcanum and Origins were great, but we need to move forward. Let's not stagnate like the FPS genre.

Thing is - Change for the better is good and people dont mind being forced into it, Change for the worse is like opening a can of worms.. BW did some ok changes but a lot were for the worse and that is why so many are up in arms..
For example revisting the same cave over and over again for upto 16+ hours of gameplay is that a change for the better or for the worse you decide!!

My opinion is its for the worse, one of the reasons I love rpgs is being able to explore a different world to see great scenics new areas to see how a writer visulizes the story in thier minds eye

Modifié par Mlaar, 17 mars 2011 - 03:43 .

[EmperorZorn]

Someone should make a DA2 mod for DA:O. Then we all would be happy.

[Il Divo]

Soilborn88 wrote...

It's easy to understand why people are angry, but it's people like you who refuse to see why. Because you don't care about RPGs.

While I would agree from a gameplay perspective, DA2 does suffer from some 'dumbing down' I also thought certain changes were for the better. Ex: how spells/abilities work. The ability to choose between improving a spell/ability instead of always adding a new one created a more varied form of progression, imo. It's definitely something I would recommend Bioware to hold onto. On the other hand, I thought the wave format for enemies was atrocious.

[TJSolo]

EmperorZorn wrote...

Someone should make a DAO mod for DA2. Then we all would be happy.

Fixed.