490 réponses à ce sujet

[bigrob08]

Brenus wrote...

No thats completely wrong.

The PC is simply a superior platform for video games from a hardware perspective.

Consoles are always several generations behing what a PC can do, and making games for console hardware undoubtably means that they are going to be poor PC games.

I'm not talking about hardware. Nor are the people who make snide comments about the people who, God forbid, enjoy A+ console games. The PC is a phenomenal platform in terms of hardware. But software? I don't think so.

[AllThatJazz]

Akjosch wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Golden Age of OBLIVION? Did you have to mention that one? (Granted, Morrowind was glorious, but Oblivion just disappointed me completely). Gimme Morrowind over than shiny bland affair any day!

Exactly.

Let's break it down to you guys who never played any TES games:

TES 1: Arena is ... a nice try. But it laid down a foundation and lore, at least.
TES 2: Daggerfall is awesome. Especially its story and the freedoms you have.
TES 3: Morrowind is a very good game, though in quite a few ways inferior to Daggerfall. It has two big positives over its predecessor though: First the graphics and second the modability.
TES 4: Oblivion is a disgrace and the Bethesda team deserves a public flogging for it (and even their biggest fans are quite vocal about it, even on their own forums). The only positive thing about it is that you can mod most of the stupidity out.
TES 5: Skyrim ... we'll have to wait and see. In doubt, at least the mod tools are confirmed. But judging by Fallout 3, Bethesda at least learned from some of their mistakes ...

Agreed on all points. And yet remember the amazing reviews that Oblivion got? Still 94 on Metacritic. 94! That game pretty much destroyed any faith I may have had in professional reviews. I do remember seriously wondering whether I was playing the same game as the Reviewers. Cos the game I played was skull-crushingly tedious with repetitive environments, a poor main story, characters so bland I couldn't remember their names 5 seconds after meeting them, godawful voice acting from otherwise really good actors, and appalling dialogue. Maybe not the worst game ever, but  a contender for the worst RPG for me.  Pools of Radiance:Ruins of Myth Drannor was less disappointing, and that game reformatted my computer. <_< 

Please, please make Skyrim more like Daggerfall/Morrowind.

OT: I loved DA2. More than Origins. For me it's not too far off BG2 in terms of how much I liked it. I know, the horror! I'm a blind fangirl/troll/Bio employee (cos yeah they have an office in Yorkshire), I should be shot! I'm clearly being paid by EA! I wish. If they want to pay me for saying nice things about their game and getting some grief as a result, I will happily accept cash or personal cheques.

But having experienced gut-wrenching disappointment with Oblivion, I can understand the bitterness here in a lot of cases.  Many people wanted Origins 2, with a few upgrades. Instead they got a totally revamped game, different combat style, no direct continuation of their story/character, a different art/narrative style, voiced protagonist, less customisation of their own character and party members, and a much less 'heroic epic' storyline. I got the game that I wanted, but a large number of people really didn't. And even I can see that the game was rushed, and I love the damned thing.

Modifié par AllThatJazz, 21 mars 2011 - 11:09 .

[Brenus]

bigrob08 wrote...

Brenus wrote...

No thats completely wrong.

The PC is simply a superior platform for video games from a hardware perspective.

Consoles are always several generations behing what a PC can do, and making games for console hardware undoubtably means that they are going to be poor PC games.

I'm not talking about hardware. Nor are the people who make snide comments about the people who, God forbid, enjoy A+ console games. The PC is a phenomenal platform in terms of hardware. But software? I don't think so.

Erm yea, the software is miles ahead of what a console can run.

When was the last time you saw video games being developed on a console or on a Mac? Oh thats right, most likely never because the PC is the best platform for making video games on as well.

There are no A+ console games compared to games that are available on the PC, all that happens is that more and more developers keep on abandoning the PC to make console games so that they can make more money.

Modifié par Brenus, 21 mars 2011 - 11:11 .

[bigrob08]

I'm not talking about developing games. I'm talking about the finished product. The games themselves. At what point did I make any mention of *developing* games?

I'm not arguing that consoles run better than PCs. I'm talking about the actual library of games.

Thank you for making my point. People are walking away from PCs. PC gamers shouldn't think they're superior when *a lot* of the best games aren't even available on their platform.

Modifié par bigrob08, 21 mars 2011 - 11:22 .

[Akka le Vil]

bigrob08 wrote...

PC gamers are the Notre Dame of the gaming world. They believe they're morally and intellectually superior to console gamers. Because all console gamers are moronic mouthbreathers in college or high school. Console gamers aren't "real" gamers. *That* is the driving force behind the divisive hatred surrounding DA2. Since DA2 is more accessible for console gamers, it's BAD.

I'm afraid you simply mix cause and effect.
The hatred against console doesn't come from some arbitrarily decision to hate console.
The hatred comes from the FACT that each time a game is made for console, it's dumbed down. Regardless of if people who play console actually deserve or require the dumbing down, it's simply something that is done.

And the scorn toward console gamers come from the fact that, more often than not, dumbed down game actually fare better on console.

So put together the "developpers consider that they have to dumb down their game to please console gamers" and "console gamers buy a lot of said game", and draw the conclusions you can.

[FellowerOfOdin]

I'd rather have a Dragon Age: Origins 2 than this abomination of a RPG.

[arathor_87]

FellowerOfOdin wrote...

I'd rather have a Dragon Age: Origins 2 than this abomination of a RPG.

Haha, I agree! ; )

[abaris]

People are walking away from PCs. PC gamers shouldn't think they're superior when *a lot* of the best games aren't even available on their platform.

Good for them if they have money to burn. Going console means another 300 to 400 after all. Not to mention the games being more expensive due to licensing fees.

And personally I don't know of any console only game I would like to have in my library. But that's entirely taste related.

[Brenus]

bigrob08 wrote...

I'm not talking about developing games. I'm talking about the finished product. The games themselves. At what point did I make any mention of *developing* games?

I'm not arguing that consoles run better than PCs. I'm talking about the actual library of games.

Thank you for making my point. People are walking away from PCs. PC gamers shouldn't think they're superior when *a lot* of the best games aren't even available on their platform.

Um, no?

http://www.escapistm...-Growth-in-2010

2010 was a big year for the PC videogame industry as the PC Gaming Alliance reports revenue growth of 20 percent over 2009 to an overall market value of more than $16 billion.

I'm not even going to make the obligatory "PC gaming is dead" crack because at this point, even the irony is worn out. Instead we're just going to get straight to the PC Gaming Alliance's 2010 Horizons report, compiled by DFC Intelligence, which says that 2010 was a banner year for the PC game industry. The global PC games market hit a value of $16.2 billion in 2010, a year-over-year increase from 2009 of 20 percent. China was the largest and fastest-growing market for PC games, putting up $4.8 billion in revenues for the year, but "mature markets" in the U.S., U.K., Japan, Korea and Germany all showed significant growth as well, combining for $7.3 billion in revenues, a 19 percent increase.

The PC is the most profitable gaming platform in the world, and has been for many many years. Developers move to consoles because they failed at making decent PC games, just like Bioware have now done with DA2.

Of course, people wont ever blame the developers, or the simple reason that bad games dont sell on the PC, they will instead pigeon hole and make retarded lame comments blaming the PC and PC gamers instead, when we are the people putting the most money into video games in the firslt place. 

PCs have the best library of games available without any doubt. Console games are pure rubbish in comparisn the the PC's best games, and the reason for why developers may eventually fail in the PC market and head over to consoles instead is because they keep on producing **** like DA2.

Modifié par Brenus, 21 mars 2011 - 11:45 .

[bigrob08]

Akka le Vil wrote...
I'm afraid you simply mix cause and effect.
The hatred against console doesn't come from some arbitrarily decision to hate console.
The hatred comes from the FACT that each time a game is made for console, it's dumbed down. Regardless of if people who play console actually deserve or require the dumbing down, it's simply something that is done.

And the scorn toward console gamers come from the fact that, more often than not, dumbed down game actually fare better on console.

So put together the "developpers consider that they have to dumb down their game to please console gamers" and "console gamers buy a lot of said game", and draw the conclusions you can.

Are you talking specifically about games that available for both the PC and consoles? That excludes a lot of console content.

If PC gamers are upset about developers streamlining games for consoles, then their spite towards consoles and console gamers is misdirected. If PCs were a more attractive platform, it wouldn't be a problem. Developers are stepping away from PCs for a reason, and still producing A+ titles on consoles. PC gamers need to realize this, and deal with it.

[Brenus]

bigrob08 wrote...

If PCs were a more attractive platform, it wouldn't be a problem. Developers are stepping away from PCs for a reason, and still producing A+ titles on consoles. PC gamers need to realize this, and deal with it.

Completely wrong again. PC's are the most attractive and profitable gaming platform.

Developers that are completely incapable of making A+ titles in the first place are stepping away from PCs because their lame D- games arent successful there, and releasing them on consoles instead, where players who are only able to play D- games happily play them under the illusion that they are actually A+.

[Brenus]

software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2010/04/19/hear-that-knocking-sound-its-pc-gaming/





As far as gaming platforms are concerned, consoles are completely inferior in both profit and popularity to the PC.

Modifié par Brenus, 21 mars 2011 - 11:51 .

[bigrob08]

So. Let me get this straight. Are you actually taking the stance that there is no such thing as a legit A+ console game?

[Akka le Vil]

bigrob08 wrote...

Are you talking specifically about games that available for both the PC and consoles? That excludes a lot of console content. 
If PC gamers are upset about developers streamlining games for consoles, then their spite towards consoles and console gamers is misdirected. If PCs were a more attractive platform, it wouldn't be a problem. Developers are stepping away from PCs for a reason, and still producing A+ titles on consoles. PC gamers need to realize this, and deal with it.

It's not really misdirected. A platform is attractive or not depending on people who buy from it. If dumbed-down games on console are more attractive for making money, it means there is enough people who are ready to pay for dumbed down game here, and this shifting from high-quality game to dumbed down ones due to a public that actually like the former... well, I think it's pretty obvious why there is this spite.

[Brenus]

bigrob08 wrote...

So. Let me get this straight. Are you actually taking the stance that there is no such thing as a legit A+ console game?

not unless it was made for the PC first like Morrowind + Oblivion.

If those two games are A+, then no, absolutely nothing else on a console is their equivalent.

Are you trying to tell me that there are better games on the Console than morrowind, oblivion, Baldurs Gate, Civilization, Galciv II, WoW, Guild Wars, Ultima series, Gothic 1-3 .......

????

Which ones?

Modifié par Brenus, 21 mars 2011 - 12:10 .

[bigrob08]

Brenus wrote...

bigrob08 wrote...

So. Let me get this straight. Are you actually taking the stance that there is no such thing as a legit A+ console game?

not unless it was made for the PC first like Morrowind + Oblivion.

If those two games are A+, then no, absolutely nothing else on a console is their equivalent.

So, in other words, I've wasted my time. You've made a choice to be unreasonable. Uncharted 2 isn't an A+ game? Really?

[Brenus]

bigrob08 wrote...

Brenus wrote...

bigrob08 wrote...

So. Let me get this straight. Are you actually taking the stance that there is no such thing as a legit A+ console game?

not unless it was made for the PC first like Morrowind + Oblivion.

If those two games are A+, then no, absolutely nothing else on a console is their equivalent.

So, in other words, I've wasted my time. You've made a choice to be unreasonable. Uncharted 2 isn't an A+ game? Really?

If its not a deep and complex PC RPG or a strategy game, then no, it cant be an A+ for me because I dont enjoy any other genre. It would be a C+ at best IMO. 

Modifié par Brenus, 21 mars 2011 - 12:15 .

[bigrob08]

Akka le Vil wrote...

bigrob08 wrote...

Are you talking specifically about games that available for both the PC and consoles? That excludes a lot of console content. 
If PC gamers are upset about developers streamlining games for consoles, then their spite towards consoles and console gamers is misdirected. If PCs were a more attractive platform, it wouldn't be a problem. Developers are stepping away from PCs for a reason, and still producing A+ titles on consoles. PC gamers need to realize this, and deal with it.

It's not really misdirected. A platform is attractive or not depending on people who buy from it. If dumbed-down games on console are more attractive for making money, it means there is enough people who are ready to pay for dumbed down game here, and this shifting from high-quality game to dumbed down ones due to a public that actually like the former... well, I think it's pretty obvious why there is this spite.

Console gaming isn't limited to "dumbed-down" games. In much the same way that PC games aren't limited to copycat MMORPGs.

[Brenus]

bigrob08 wrote...

Console gaming isn't limited to "dumbed-down" games. In much the same way that PC games aren't limited to copycat MMORPGs.

Yes it is. There is absolutely no game available on the console as complex as BG or Civ. They are dumber games than what I enjoy playing on the PC.

Anno 1404 is a current AAA+++++++ game for me. Anything comparable to that on consoles? Erm, nope. There isnt. It would be far too complex for console gamers.

Modifié par Brenus, 21 mars 2011 - 12:18 .

[bigrob08]

Brenus wrote...

bigrob08 wrote...

Console gaming isn't limited to "dumbed-down" games. In much the same way that PC games aren't limited to copycat MMORPGs.

Yes it is. There is absolutely no game available on the console as complex as BG or Civ. They are dumber games than what I enjoy playing on the PC.

You've established your bias. I get it. If you're not willing to enjoy games that aren't strictly limited to two narrow genres, then all you're presenting is a very biased opinion.

[Brenus]

bigrob08 wrote...

Brenus wrote...

bigrob08 wrote...

Console gaming isn't limited to "dumbed-down" games. In much the same way that PC games aren't limited to copycat MMORPGs.

Yes it is. There is absolutely no game available on the console as complex as BG or Civ. They are dumber games than what I enjoy playing on the PC.

You've established your bias. I get it. If you're not willing to enjoy games that aren't strictly limited to two narrow genres, then all you're presenting is a very biased opinion.

Its not that I'm not willing to enjoy them, I simply dont. Also, why the hell should I have to buy a console when I already have a top of the range gaming PC? 

And RPGs / Strategy games are not 'narrow' genres, at least no where near as narrow as running around and shooting, or hack n slashing is.

You still havnt yet told me of any console games that are better than A+ games on the PC, oh wait, thats right, its because there arent any!

Modifié par Brenus, 21 mars 2011 - 12:38 .

[jds1bio]

Hasn't this thread been completely derailed by the console vs. PC talk?

[Dr. Impossible]

Brenus wrote...

bigrob08 wrote...

Console gaming isn't limited to "dumbed-down" games. In much the same way that PC games aren't limited to copycat MMORPGs.

Yes it is. There is absolutely no game available on the console as complex as BG or Civ. They are dumber games than what I enjoy playing on the PC.

http://insomnia.ac/c...epth_and_skill/

A fighting game can be complex too.

[Brenus]

Dr. Impossible wrote...
A fighting game can be complex too.

Yes, I do enjoy Street Fighter 4 on the PC.

Now then, wheres Super Street Fighter 4? Oh right, they arent releasing it on the PC because its developers are idiots.

If console games are so great, then how about releasing them on the PC? Oh, wait, thats right, then absolutely no one would buy a console ever again.

Modifié par Brenus, 21 mars 2011 - 12:44 .

[abaris]

bigrob08 wrote...


Console gaming isn't limited to "dumbed-down" games.

It is - yet not in the sense of dumb user, but in the sense of serious hardware limitations. And that doesn't end with graphics, its a controller problem too.

In other words, if a developer codes for the console as the primary medium, they are aiming for the lowest possible denominator. Hence the PC version will be seriously crippled compared to the possibilities.