58 réponses à ce sujet

[SlamminHams]

Salladdbladd wrote...

The reason why my build has bravery in it is that you can reach the base of it with only two points, i find it quite okay soon i'll make some more tests in terms of SnS dmg. I also want to state out that i don't have much stamina problems whatsoever, and i have a crapload of Auras and skills to use, just use a pot wisely and kill lower enemies and you are fine with the stamina.

My biggest beef with Bravery is that it's an ability that addresses issues that're never problematic and that it's a complete and underwaste of points against single enemies (IE bosses).

Bravery is basically a sustained that only helps when you fight groups, and helps in ways that you really don't need aid.  It's base functionality increases Attack and Crit Chance, the problem here is that basically any point beyond level 7 or so, you'll have 100% Hit chance against normal mobs, which means the scaling Attack portion really does nothing.  Beyond that, if you have the upgrades (threat and damage), then it's just more superfluous against trash mobs.

I'm not trying to trash on you for your build or whatever, I'm just trying to explain that while Battle Synergy and Bravery are cool from a design point, they really don't work out well in the final product, especially when compared to things like Control or Might (and their associated upgrades).

All that said, I'm thinking of doing a solo NM SnS Warrior, as I'm pretty bored of the current game.

Modifié par SlamminHams, 18 mars 2011 - 12:20 .

[rumination888]

I'm a fan of Bravery with the threat upgrade on Aveline and Fenris, but not a fan of it on Hawke.

I tend to let the AI handle my companions, and so the extra threat from Bravery is nice because the Ai isn't intelligent enough to handle groups of mobs from all sides. I'm fairly positive that threat buffs also increases threat from both high armor and proximity.

Its a different matter entirely on Hawke because I have full control and can dash from mob to mob to save my companions. Aveline/Fenris would simply wail on a mob until its dead before they moved on to a new target.

[SlamminHams]

rumination888 wrote...

I'm a fan of Bravery with the threat upgrade on Aveline and Fenris

I was too initially, at least for Aveline.  Lyrium Ghost/Specter plus Veneer of Calm is all Fenris every needs.

If you want damage for Aveline, I'd recommend going a good 1H weapon (Thudpucker's Fist in Act 1, Markham Heart Stopper for Act 2) and upgrading Assault and Stagger.  Oh, and getting her Might for a sustained and Cleave.

[jsamlaw]

I'm nearing the end of Act 1 on my NM SnS Warrior run and it's been quite a bit harder than I expected. I was hoping that I could take great advantage of multiple target staggers through improved Shield Bash and having both Anders and Merril in my party, each with improved Chain Lightning. Sadly, if they don't get a big crit on the spell, the sustain damage isn't there. So, I respecced at level 9 to drop improved Shield Bash (for now) and instead focused on my own personal damage via Shield Bash, Scatter, Assault + Battery, Blood Frenzy and Cleave. I had to drop Taunt for now, but I'm finding Goad to be enough especially where I charge in ahead of my companions and open with a Cleave enhanced Scatter+Assault.

Blood Frenzy is amazing because I can hover at low life with my shield for much longer periods of time. I imagine once I get Sacrificial Frenzy it will be much easier. I'm still working out the early game kinks for NM SnS, but once I have all my tools it seems to be just as viable as it was on Hard.

Modifié par jsamlaw, 18 mars 2011 - 01:00 .

[Salladdbladd]

Hey, thanks for the input indeed Bravery isn't very usefull at all, so you can feel free to put the two points in something else, i do further testing. With the char link you should see the actual changes. The more i test the more i like it

[Salladdbladd]

*updated*

[PirateT138]

Sure would be nice if there were still a statistics page to help gauge things like this...

[jsamlaw]

To be a complete build you can't just start from the Chantry explosion scene. Nightmare is a lot easier once you have all of your tools (including fully buffed companions). It's the early levels where SnS has its work cut out for it. Anyone can respec at the end and say "look it works fine" lol.

[Salladdbladd]

I can say it works fine on normal hard for a playthrough i work on playing it through on nightmare as well and said that, anyways even if it doesn't go good at nightmare why shouldn't i post it here its an incredible and funny build for normal/hard playthroughs.

Modifié par Salladdbladd, 19 mars 2011 - 08:27 .

[Atmosfear3]

Man, that vague blade is crazy good with 3 sockets :x

[Salladdbladd]

Yes it is

[Frinklin]

Salladdbladd wrote...

Ok so i just tried it out in Nightmare, i made a few fights with a slighty different build, i just got Protection for crit immunity and left out two point in the berserker tree. Dmg is just insane as it was and the fights work pretty nice.

I played nightmare the part from where Anders blasts the church until Orsino dead just to try. Worked pretty decent. My setup is Anders as healer + buffer, Isabella, Merryl for debuffing.

As weapons i use: The Wardwall and The Vague Blade it has three sockets where i put the Sandal atk speed rune, 5% crit and 10% dmg into it.

Here updated character sheet:
social.bioware.com/697682/&v=bw_games&game=dragonage2_pc&pid=220753009&display=characters&character_id=108427

As i stated out i can't say if you can play it through on nightmare with this build. It`s just something i tried out, because of the nice reskill potions

Where do you find The Vague Blade. I must have missed that

[Novadove]

hmm.. i am playing a warrior sns now.. i am full defender, vanguard, reaver build with synergy.
using it's like... um .. constant invincibility

[Graunt]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

Man, that vague blade is crazy good with 3 sockets :x

Seems like it would be due to the speed rune and other bonuses you can add, but until you get that weapon/speed rune, the elemental weapons seem to consistently outperform physical weapons that actually have a higher listed dps.  The armor on Warrior enemies mitigates so much of that, yet the elemental weapons pretty much bypass all of it and only the natural resist to an element comes into play and it's only ever an issues against immunes.

It's not so much of an issue on Mage type creatures, but most enemies in the game seem to have medium high - high armor.

Modifié par Graunt, 21 mars 2011 - 07:27 .

[Salladdbladd]

god point until the end of the game i would also go a non physical dmg 1h whenever i can.

[FedericoV]

I have not played a SnS warrior that time around even if it's my favourite class normally. Hawke just felt better as a mage. But I'm using Aveline in my party and the problem I've got with her is that her auto attack are just ****. Basically, with a SnS warrior, you are forced to stand there and just taunt untill you reach the 12-15 level and you can begin to think about the Battlemaster tree. Becuase SnS warrior are based on substainables and never have enough stamina to use the active skills properly.

I have nothing against 2h being offensive and SnS being defensive, that's logic and right. But Bioware should do something to make defense looks and play more exciting.

Modifié par FedericoV, 21 mars 2011 - 08:37 .

[Graunt]

FedericoV wrote...

I have not played a SnS warrior that time around even if it's my favourite class normally. Hawke just felt better as a mage. But I'm using Aveline in my party and the problem I've got with her is that her auto attack are just ****. Basically, with a SnS warrior, you are forced to stand there and just taunt untill you reach the 12-15 level and you can begin to think about the Battlemaster tree. Becuase SnS warrior are based on substainables and never have enough stamina to use the active skills properly.

I have nothing against 2h being offensive and SnS being defensive, that's logic and right. But Bioware should do something to make defense looks and play more exciting.

The only "defense" that's needed it preventing enemies from attacking the weaker companions in the group and taking the hits that are thrown for them.  I'm not sure what's so "exciting" about just standing there taking a beating while not doing anything else.  You can also start doing relatively decent damage by level 6-7.  Taunt also doesn't do anything at all if an enemy is already attacking you.

[FedericoV]

Graunt wrote...
The only "defense" that's needed it preventing enemies from attacking the weaker companions in the group and taking the hits that are thrown for them. 

Oh thanks. Now I know how to play the game . Let's give it for granted.

I'm not sure what's so "exciting" about just standing there taking a beating while not doing anything else. 

Nothing in DA2. That's my point. But in DA:O SnS warrior felt better honestly (its' the only class that need some work in terms of mechanic).

What I mean is: give SnS warrior some form of active defense like debuff and extend the buff like Rally and its sinergies. Right now it asks too many abilities points to develop the "fun" and active part while you are "forced" to invest a lot of ability points on the chore for immunities and CCC.

You can also start doing relatively decent damage by level 6-7.  Taunt also doesn't do anything at all if an enemy is already attacking you.

I know how Taunt works. But since a 2h can't hold aggro because its damage is too low, you need to use it from time to time when enemy choose to focus on another target.

[TheStrand221]

FedericoV wrote...

Graunt wrote...
The only "defense" that's needed it preventing enemies from attacking the weaker companions in the group and taking the hits that are thrown for them. 

Oh thanks. Now I know how to play the game . Let's give it for granted.

I'm not sure what's so "exciting" about just standing there taking a beating while not doing anything else. 

Nothing in DA2. That's my point. But in DA:O SnS warrior felt better honestly (its' the only class that need some work in terms of mechanic).

What I mean is: give SnS warrior some form of active defense like debuff and extend the buff like Rally and its sinergies. Right now it asks too many abilities points to develop the "fun" and active part while you are "forced" to invest a lot of ability points on the chore for immunities and CCC.

You can also start doing relatively decent damage by level 6-7.  Taunt also doesn't do anything at all if an enemy is already attacking you.

I know how Taunt works. But since a 2h can't hold aggro because its damage is too low, you need to use it from time to time when enemy choose to focus on another target.

I disagree with everything you said.

S&S in DA:O was terribly boring to me, though certain mods made it better.  The idea that somebody thinks it was more fun in the prior game honestly blows my mind.  I guess if you like playing a MMO tank it was good for that.  Fair enough, there is no accouting for taste.

Debuffs would be great to have, but DA:2 seems to have reserved debuffs for rogues and mages.  That's a design issue I won't argue with, though I miss things like sunder arms/armor for warriors.

You aren't forced to take the immunity abilities in the S&S tree.  My S&S warrior that I'm playing right now has all three damage actives, including assault which is the highest raw damage warrior active for a single target (and does hit multiples, though obviously you can exceed the overall damage of it with something like tornado), and I don't have either of the S&S passive defensive abilties yet because I deicided to go for damage first.  He'll be a beast once he is finally immune to flanking and crits, not to mention healing himself with devour.

2h does tons of damage, and can hold aggro fine.  DA2 doesn't have a lot of crazy aggro holding abilities, but with the vanguard tree a warrior can turn out tons of AOE damage to keep aggro.  Armistice, goad, and taunt are there to help you keep aggro when it slips away from you.  The thing about DA2 is that you actually need to churn out some damage to keep aggro, not just have a bunch of bull**** abilities you can trigger to keep enemies hacking away at you while you DPS kills everyone.  This makes a lot more sense to me.

[FedericoV]

TheStrand221 wrote...

2h does tons of damage, and can hold aggro fine.  DA2 doesn't have a lot of crazy aggro holding abilities, but with the vanguard tree a warrior can turn out tons of AOE damage to keep aggro.  Armistice, goad, and taunt are there to help you keep aggro when it slips away from you.  The thing about DA2 is that you actually need to churn out some damage to keep aggro, not just have a bunch of bull**** abilities you can trigger to keep enemies hacking away at you while you DPS kills everyone.  This makes a lot more sense to me.

I have a party with 2 rogues and I use all the aggro skills a lot (even the Isabella's one). No problem managing enemy attention. They mostly stay focused on Aveline while I dps them with mages and rogues. I 'm not having problem playing the game. I'm saying that SnS warrior in DA2 looks boring. And I'm asking something to make them more active even if they concentrate on defense.

Assault is awesome but you cannot use it very often because if you run a couple of substainables, lets' say bravery and shiled defense, you have just enough stamina to use shield bash (untill you develop the battlemaster tree). At least with Aveline: I don't know if Warrior Hawke has the same problem.

So my suggestion is to make damage mitigation something more situational and based on active abilities instead than substained ones and to give more buffs to SnS warrior.

Modifié par FedericoV, 21 mars 2011 - 10:03 .

[Graunt]

FedericoV wrote...

TheStrand221 wrote...

2h does tons of damage, and can hold aggro fine.  DA2 doesn't have a lot of crazy aggro holding abilities, but with the vanguard tree a warrior can turn out tons of AOE damage to keep aggro.  Armistice, goad, and taunt are there to help you keep aggro when it slips away from you.  The thing about DA2 is that you actually need to churn out some damage to keep aggro, not just have a bunch of bull**** abilities you can trigger to keep enemies hacking away at you while you DPS kills everyone.  This makes a lot more sense to me.

I have a party with 2 rogues and I use all the aggro skills a lot (even the Isabella's one). No problem managing enemy attention. They mostly stay focused on Aveline while I dps them with mages and rogues. I 'm not having problem playing the game. I'm saying that SnS warrior in DA2 looks boring. And I'm asking something to make them more active even if they concentrate on defense.

Assault is awesome but you cannot use it very often because if you run a couple of substainables, lets' say bravery and shiled defense, you have just enough stamina to use shield bash (untill you develop the battlemaster tree). At least with Aveline: I don't know if Warrior Hawke has the same problem.

So my suggestion is to make damage mitigation something more situational and based on active abilities instead than substained ones and to give more buffs to SnS warrior.

That's why you don't ever run Shield Defense except on the hardest hitting elites and bosses, and you don't even pick up Bravery since it's useless compared to grabbing Vanguard abilities that work (better) not only against trash, but against bosses as well.  It also doesn't hurt that your single Mage and two Rogues can greatly take advantage of all of the staggers.  And there is an active ability that makes you take 0% damage for 5s.  The game isn't so hard on Nightmare that you need all of this extra mitigation at all 85% of the time and you also don't even need more than one healing spell.

Modifié par Graunt, 21 mars 2011 - 03:10 .

[Naitaka]

Ok guys, I just notice something really weird. Shield with 100% basic attack against enemies in melee, will do extra damage to yourself when you use self damage skills like reaver's blood frenzy or aura of pain. Sitting at 50% health, a tick from aura of pain does 148 damage to myself...which is just silly...kinda funny though.

[Salladdbladd]

Thanks for the input so far, all i can say is SnS does dmg (a lot) i will make uptadets on my hard/nightmare playthroughs soon.

[Salladdbladd]

*update*

further will come every two to three days check it out.

[wowpwnslol]

2H is better still IMO. Just for the huge AoE attacks to clear out the trash to leave you 1vs1 against bosses.