113 réponses à ce sujet

[MadDjinn]

you play the 'third option' the whole game. No matter where I went, I was always killing mages and templars. Even when I was sent to help them. They always attacked!

So I was annoyed at the lack of 'kill them all' option, but in the end, you do kill them all, but maybe a little less of all of one than the other. Seriously, I killed more than a battalion of Templars and mages the whole game, where did the rest come from?

Seriously though, the story line had a huge number of pride demons and abominations. Both sides were falling to the demons, so I'm ok with having to slaughter everyone.

Though, Sebastian had the best line in there. (paraphrasing) 'why are we arguing about the circle when the murderer is standing right here?'
- I would have loved the option to stick him right at that moment as Meridith was saying she wanted another option, but no one was showing it to her.
- And why did anders all of a sudden decide not to fight templars when you side with the mages? He seemed all puffed up when he was explaining the bomb...

last, but not least... why did Nathaniel and Zevran come to help in the last fight? They just randomly show up after a while into the fight. I don't remember them saying that they'd stick around and come beat up templars with me.

[SmokeyTheBear]

I'd have totally pulled off the move Shepard did in the sideqeust on the Citadel. A quarian got accused of stealing from a volus, and was proven innocent by Shepard. The C-Sec officer was about to report or jail the quarian, and you use the Paragon Interrupt to this effect:

"What the hell!? This quarian is falsely accused by this jerk, and you report the quarian?"
"AND YOU!" *shoves volus*
"You accuse an innocent girl for something she didn't do, and then when you get back what you stole you respond with ''She could've taken it.'"
C-Sec Officer: Sir, do you want me to run you in?
"I don't think you're going to 'run in' a Spectre."
-Paraphrased

If I could have chewed out Orsino and Meredith in that fashion....

That'd be pretty neat.

[King Killoth]

My third option Kill them all let the maker sort them out

[AlexXIV]

King Killoth wrote...

My third option Kill them all let the maker sort them out

The Maker approves.

[TiaraBlade]

Adding in from my thread that I requested be locked/deleted:

*
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
*

Well, just finished the game and I have mixed feelings. Good in many ways but lacking in others. I may comment later. What I did want to comment on was the final part of the game and the decision you make: templars or mages.

*sigh*

Really? No peaceful way?

I understand the arguements over Templar control over mages vs freedom for mages and I can even understand how the people of Kirkwall might in their anger demand the mage's heads for the action of one. But Meredith, as rigid as she is, to declare annulment on ALL Circle mages when she KNOWS that they were not responsible simply to satisfy the mobs?

Sorry, no way. Meredith was a hardcase and we see the outside influences but too many Templars went along with it. The would be massacre left a bad taste to me.

On top of that, we had a possible solution: Trask and the mages seeking peace between the two but during the quest we only get to kill people instead of talking. For a game that spoke of "choices" all I felt was being railroaded to a predetermined decision: A or B, regardless of your actions throughout the game.

DA2 has the great core for an awesome game, both for playing and writing (kudos to Bioware for breaking the beginning - 4 hub quest - ending design) but transversing the same old places, the feeling that I was being controlled by the plot rather than shaping it, and a game that felt more sidequest than storyline (especially sad given how incredible some of the storyline was), needs some fixing.

DA3 should be awesome- the combat and visuals of DA2, the epic scope of DA:0, and Bioware's great storytelling as well as REAL choices, not two paths to the same point, will make it the best of the series.

[TiaraBlade]

Oh, just as an aside...how is Orsino a lunatic? Sacrificing yourself to buy time for your friends and students to escape (and he's way too smart to not know that's exactly what he's doing there at the end) hardly seems crazy. Reckless with Hawke & co. in the room, to be sure -- thanks, Orsino old pal -- but hardly insane. Also, by the time you get to The Last Straw, you've probably killed most of the crazy ones in your adventures. (Then again, maybe not. There's always more, aren't there?)

Remember when he comments about learning black magic from an old friend of his? The same one who murdered Hawke's mother to create that sick zombie. Orsino is the mysterious "O" in the letter: he KNEW what that sick freak was doing and let him go on murdering innocent women. Every encounter after that, he was concealing his part in your mother's murder.

There were no good guys it seems in this game, note even some of your companions. Too depressing.

[TiaraBlade]

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Fair34 wrote...

Anders removed any option for compromise.

I'm not looking for compromise, I'm looking to kill everyone on both sides. I want a 3rd option boiling down to killing every mage and templar immediately. We are forced into a supporting one side or another regardless of whether or not we hate both sides.

You and whose army? Even as powerful as Hawke and crew are, even they would have a problem taking on both templars and circle mages alone. They storyline from the mages POV (and probably the same from the Templars) is that the other side is probably too powerful to overcome even with Hawke's help as it is. To take on both sides... well not gonna happen.

[TiaraBlade]

PantheraOnca wrote...

Mark B wrote...

Kill Them All, Let The Maker Sort Them Out

They need to make this an option in some patch or dlc. I will replay every character I have at that point to use it.

Have to fight Orisino-thing and Crazy-dith plus robots at the same time, while they fight each other. Have mages and templars split between being with their leader and being with you. Super fun FFA time.

Riot: you should totally hire me for this idea.

Actually, this might be a good third option: have Hawke make a call for all mages, Templars, Guardsman, and the good people of Kirkwall to rally to her as Champion of Kirkwall who has always had the entire city's best interest at heart. Defecting Templars and defecting circle mages along with guardsman, mercs, etc... could be that viable army I commented on earlier.

[Pileyourbodies]

Nope if you play from the templar side they're quite handily pwning the mages. only in 1 room do you find dead templars and thats from a Desire demon that has taken control of them

[TiaraBlade]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Orsino's crazy needed more building up. Yes, he supported the lily killer, the guy who murdered your mother, but you only get to even think that if you saw the note. Otherwise, he appears to be the saner option of the two. Perhaps not the best choice, but certainly better than Meredith. A few more hints, maybe have one or two of the blood mages mention that they learned what they did at the Circle, even one name-dropping Orsino.

But the point in the game was that the third way did not exist and you needed to pick one side or the other. Both have their good and bad points, and it basically comes down to picking the lesser of two evils. It's not about finding a third way, it's about the ground cracking under your feet and having to pick a side.

Except that Hawke is a Hero and exceptional character: those types tend to find third ways just as Hawke can do when taking control of the counter attack at the end of Act 2.

[Evil Asch]

I first played through trying to be reasonable and neutral only to have my lover slaughter a load of innocent people forcing me to stab his crazy abomination ass.

Won't do that again. Next play through I'm choosing a side and sticking to it. Screw being sane.

[CitizenSnips]

TiaraBlade wrote...

mushoops86anjyl wrote...

Fair34 wrote...

Anders removed any option for compromise.

I'm not looking for compromise, I'm looking to kill everyone on both sides. I want a 3rd option boiling down to killing every mage and templar immediately. We are forced into a supporting one side or another regardless of whether or not we hate both sides.

You and whose army? Even as powerful as Hawke and crew are, even they would have a problem taking on both templars and circle mages alone. They storyline from the mages POV (and probably the same from the Templars) is that the other side is probably too powerful to overcome even with Hawke's help as it is. To take on both sides... well not gonna happen.

The city guard, rousing the civilian population, rounding up an army in Starkhaven, apostate mages, dalish elves, mercenary factions, former Qunari, and much more outside of Kirkwall. The entirety of DA:O was built upon gathering an army to defeat and entire blight. I'm pretty sure Hawke could figure out how to make one to beat down one circle and some templars. But that's not really my point. My biggest problem is believing that by the time Hawke has to make a decision, that he wants to support either faction at all. Both Templars and Circle  Mages are just inexplicable bastards to Hawke throughout Act 3. Neither side has a redeeming quality so why do I have to validate one or the other. Because I'm railroaded into it, and even then the ending is the exact same. Why doesn't Hawke just say "**** it I'm gonna go for a boat ride with this ****ty rogue and kiddy sized dalish elf over here. Be back in 3 years to clean up whatever is left of this city."

[dgcatanisiri]

TiaraBlade wrote...There were no good guys it seems in this game, note even some of your companions. Too depressing.

To be honest, that's what I like about the story. It's not about who's the good guy and who's the bad guy in the situation. It's a matter of perspective - who is the lesser of the two evils? When the ground cracks under your feet, what side do you pick? It's not about fighting the good fight against the oppressive armies. The templars are given very good reasons for cracking down on the mages, while the mages have good reasons for pushing back against them.

The game's about how there is no such thing as a black and white viewpoint. Everything's in a shade of grey. That's part of the point of the Cassandra framing device - remember when the game cuts to her at the start of the Deep Roads expedition: "The Champion had to know what he would find there!" Cassandra's view at the time is that of COURSE Hawke knew what would come of his choices, because that gives a clear cut responsibility to someone, gives someone the blame for everything that happened after. And as it goes on, she realizes that Hawke was a victim of circumstance as much as a hero.

[Mark B]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

TiaraBlade wrote...There were no good guys it seems in this game, note even some of your companions. Too depressing.

To be honest, that's what I like about the story. It's not about who's the good guy and who's the bad guy in the situation. It's a matter of perspective - who is the lesser of the two evils? When the ground cracks under your feet, what side do you pick? It's not about fighting the good fight against the oppressive armies. The templars are given very good reasons for cracking down on the mages, while the mages have good reasons for pushing back against them.

The game's about how there is no such thing as a black and white viewpoint. Everything's in a shade of grey. That's part of the point of the Cassandra framing device - remember when the game cuts to her at the start of the Deep Roads expedition: "The Champion had to know what he would find there!" Cassandra's view at the time is that of COURSE Hawke knew what would come of his choices, because that gives a clear cut responsibility to someone, gives someone the blame for everything that happened after. And as it goes on, she realizes that Hawke was a victim of circumstance as much as a hero.

I understand your point, but there IS a third faction in the game that you cannot side with: THE PEOPLE OF KIRKWALL.
Who's right or wrong doesn't matter when your house is burning down. Again!

As I said before you should be able to rally the population to kick seven shades out of the remains of both sides.  Pitchforks and torches ftw.

[DarkAnya]

LexXxich wrote...

Too bad you can't actually side with Qunari in previous act.(I, personally wouldn't, but it's always nice to have options)

The third act made me miss the Arishok. I wanted to tell him he was right and everyone in this town is batsh*t crazy.

[MaglorArcanist]

The only thing i need is "sanctio extremis exterminatus" option:
Close templars and mage in the gallows and let temk kill each other, and then someone win rush in and kill every thing moving.

And after take the place as new king of kirkwall

[TexasToast712]

I just wanted a "Pull up a chair with a bag of popcorn and watch the fireworks." option.

Modifié par TexasToast712, 18 mars 2011 - 10:45 .

[dgcatanisiri]

Mark B wrote...
I understand your point, but there IS a third faction in the game that you cannot side with: THE PEOPLE OF KIRKWALL.
Who's right or wrong doesn't matter when your house is burning down. Again!

As I said before you should be able to rally the population to kick seven shades out of the remains of both sides.  Pitchforks and torches ftw.

Torches and pitchforks versus cold steel blades and trained warriors versus fire, ice, and lightning from the sky. Are you seeing a slight problem with this plan? The average Kirkwall citizen may at best wield a dagger. Remember the qunari invasion? The citizens of Kirkwall hid while the templars held the city. Aveline even says that the City Guard is busy protecting the citizens. They're not capable of standing against the mages and templars.

[Mark B]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

Mark B wrote...
I understand your point, but there IS a third faction in the game that you cannot side with: THE PEOPLE OF KIRKWALL.
Who's right or wrong doesn't matter when your house is burning down. Again!

As I said before you should be able to rally the population to kick seven shades out of the remains of both sides.  Pitchforks and torches ftw.

Torches and pitchforks versus cold steel blades and trained warriors versus fire, ice, and lightning from the sky. Are you seeing a slight problem with this plan? The average Kirkwall citizen may at best wield a dagger. Remember the qunari invasion? The citizens of Kirkwall hid while the templars held the city. Aveline even says that the City Guard is busy protecting the citizens. They're not capable of standing against the mages and templars.

It was a refernence to my earlier post regarding Frankenstein, but;
The point is to RALLY them into action.
In the game what are there 200 templars? in plate armor? Now I'd quite happily take a stack of civilians against a well trained force of overly armored infantry in an urban setting.  (Large militia vs small group of trained fighters with similar technologies?)
Seriously, one cobblestone to the helmet and he's down and dead shortly after.
If you look through medieval history you'll see that these type of guys always had large amounts light infantry with them (when they won) because they are vulnerable.  Something the templars do not have given they are there to control mages, not fight wars.
Their level of training can also be questioned given what they are for and are used to having the support of the citizenry "to burn the witch" rather than 20 angry farmers coming at them with sharp farming appliances and burning pitch. Let's see magic resistance get them out of that.
As for mages, again overwhelming numbers and they'd last seconds, but ideally I'd let the guys in tin cans slaughter them and then pick off the stragglers or slaughter the templars and tell the mages to get out of town.

EDIT: The other solution for the mages - all in a big tower on an island - burn that sucker down and let's see if they can fly.

The qunari "invasion" was a decapitation attack, no pun intended, where a small group of trained, mobile warriors went straight for the seat of power.  This is significantly different to a pitched battle.

Modifié par Mark B, 18 mars 2011 - 09:10 .

[Kenrae]

There were no good guys it seems in this game, note even some of your companions. Too depressing.

And real. That's the thing I like most about DA2.

Still, there should have been a third option. The option to just protect the people of Kirkwall while both sides shred each other. Like in The Witcher.

[Rifneno]

I'll never understand all the complaining people do about the fact the game doesn't let you sit on your rear and do nothing. I've never in my life been playing an RPG and thought "what I want my grand hero to do right now is go home and take a nap." I mean honestly. This game has enough legitimate flaws that you don't need to invent one.

[Vicious]

Because no Bioware game ever includes a 'third way' of ending the game.


If you want an 'f-- everyone' choice, buy your games from Obsidian.

[Oloria]

I don't think a neutral "do nothing" option at the ending would really have fit in with the theme of DA2. The story was about how vocal minorities/extremists, on both sides of a conflict, will eventually drown out (or blow up/behead) the less passionate and rationale voices of moderation.

I guess an extreme "kill everyone" option might work, if a little on the silly side... perhaps if you were roleplaying a Hawke who'd been driven as mad as the nutty extremists by all the crazy going on around her...

[Mark B]

Oloria wrote...

I don't think a neutral "do nothing" option at the ending would really have fit in with the theme of DA2. The story was about how vocal minorities/extremists, on both sides of a conflict, will eventually drown out (or blow up/behead) the less passionate and rationale voices of moderation.

I guess an extreme "kill everyone" option might work, if a little on the silly side... perhaps if you were roleplaying a Hawke who'd been driven as mad as the nutty extremists by all the crazy going on around her...

I don't see how telling both sides to get out of town or else is doing nothing.  If anything it's the riskiest option, and fits in with your title, Champion of Kirkwall.

This issue arises from the fact that every time you try to help a mage they start self harming and the head of the local templars is a power mad b!tch who went out of her way to buy a mystery idol and make it into a sword that may or may not be going all Stormbringer on her.