95 réponses à ce sujet

[Dangerfoot]

Mahtisonni wrote...

The thing that mostly bothered me that pretty much all "choices" in the main story line were pretty much like this.
1. Calm/soothing response
2. Mocking response
3. Angry response

All saying the same thing with different tone of voice.
WHY WOULDN'T YOU LET ME BUTCHER MOTHER PEATRICE?!?!?
Seriously I can understand that I weren't allowed to kill him at first encounter for further story developement, but at least after killing the son of the Viscount Hawke should gain enough motivation to stab her in the face.

Oh my god YES.

She just sent me to my death and I walk into her hide out, and my character only has the option of saying "You made an enemy today." What am I intimidated by her 1 armed guard? So stupid. There were a lot of times where my characters reactions were unbelievably stupid and they were forced on me.

[Vicious]

you mean like my choice in DA:O of picking the templars over the mages that has pretty much absolutely 0 effect on the rest of the game? awesome choices like that? you know how the only real difference is change the unit type you get to summon in the end battle and epilogue slides?

Bwahaha

[Dangerfoot]

you mean like my choice in DA:O of picking the templars over the mages that has pretty much absolutely 0 effect on the rest of the game? awesome choices like that? you know how the only real difference is change the unit type you get to summon in the end battle and epilogue slides?

It's funny because that one choice from DAO, is the entire premise of DA2.

[Cajeb]

Dangerfoot wrote...

Mahtisonni wrote...

The thing that mostly bothered me that pretty much all "choices" in the main story line were pretty much like this.
1. Calm/soothing response
2. Mocking response
3. Angry response

All saying the same thing with different tone of voice.
WHY WOULDN'T YOU LET ME BUTCHER MOTHER PEATRICE?!?!?
Seriously I can understand that I weren't allowed to kill him at first encounter for further story developement, but at least after killing the son of the Viscount Hawke should gain enough motivation to stab her in the face.

Oh my god YES.

She just sent me to my death and I walk into her hide out, and my character only has the option of saying "You made an enemy today." What am I intimidated by her 1 armed guard? So stupid. There were a lot of times where my characters reactions were unbelievably stupid and they were forced on me.

LOL. I actually thought we'd get the option to kill her during that quest. Seems like a Bioware staple. But we didn't get the chance...and there was no reason for it either

[Vilegrim]

bobo_minky wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

Well not so much the lack of choices but the lack of them having any impact whatsoever on anything. Like no matter how you handle the situation with the Arishock you have to kill him and no matter how you handle the situation with the murder suspect your mother always gets killed. I guess they were really excited about these plot points and wanted to force them  upon you, These are just some examples and there's a lot more situations where the story is completely set in stone and your "choices" are just roundabout ways of getting the same result...

Agreed. The DA2 story is much more linear than DA1's.

I think this is party because in DA2, Bioware was attempting some sort of Action RPG hybrid. Any of us familiar with Action games will know they essentially follow a linear story, That's ok, though, because a.) we don't expcet much choice because it's an Action game, and b.) we're provided with interesting and challenging enemies to beat down, using complex combos and tactics that we learn and figure out along the way. In an action game, as long as the story told is internally consistent and somewhat original and enjoyable, most gamers will end up having a good time.

I really believe that with DA2, the wrong approach was taken with the creation of the game. Instead of building a good, solid action game, and enriching it with RPG elements, they came from a classic RPG background with DA1, from which they took AWAY RPG elements, and tacked on some Action type features. This left the game feeling shallow and linear in RPG terms, and frustrating in Action terms.

if I wanted an action game I'd buy one which I don't so I won't... This was advertised as an RPG so make an RPG not a splatter fest with some rpg elements.  Action/Rpg worked ok for ME2, wish it had been more RPG and less shooty (hell give me Planescape Torment, where pretty much every battle can be talked past given the right information and choices) But DA:O was an old school RPG why defile it within this hybrid mess?  (Which is on my guilty pleasures list, but can't see myself completing it again.

[DrekorSilverfang]

It's very difficult to tell a story and have it not be linear.

[Arrtis]

Clonedzero wrote...

you mean like my choice in DA:O of picking the templars over the mages that has pretty much absolutely 0 effect on the rest of the game? awesome choices like that? you know how the only real difference is change the unit type you get to summon in the end battle and epilogue slides? choices with real depth to them? like picking werewolves over dalish elves? you know choices that really change thing you know?

oh wait...

You get different items.
You hear a different story.
You get a different dialogue.
You sometimes make a reference to you decisions to characters that werent involved.

[Arrtis]

DrekorSilverfang wrote...

It's very difficult to tell a story and have it not be linear.

No its not.
Its just difficult to make a good story with it.
Well I have already decided you cant trust BIoware at their word with how there game will be.1 time with origins I can looks past.A 2nd time with DA2 I cannot.
So I will play.The next game.In a certain way.Without spending very much to any money at all.

[Everwarden]

DrekorSilverfang wrote...

It's very difficult to tell a story and have it not be linear.

Somehow they've managed it before. 

[Arrtis]

Dangerfoot wrote...

you mean like my choice in DA:O of picking the templars over the mages that has pretty much absolutely 0 effect on the rest of the game? awesome choices like that? you know how the only real difference is change the unit type you get to summon in the end battle and epilogue slides?

It's funny because that one choice from DAO, is the entire premise of DA2.

So lets see...overall you make little to no difference storywise in this game for anything major.
In DAO....you had....
2-5 decisions that felt bigger than average with the dwarfs.
2-3 with the dalish
3-6 near the conclusion
2-3 with red cliffe
2 with the mages.
I may be missing some.

Modifié par Arrtis, 17 mars 2011 - 05:45 .

[PlumPaul93]

They obviously had to scrap the amount of choices because they were spending all the development time making different dungeons and areas so that way the game doesn't get repetitive after playing for one hour... But to be honest I wouldn't have a problem with the lack of choices if every single choice didn't basically lead to the same result as the opposite choice would have.

[AmeriCanuck77]

It seems like the major factor in the choices in DA2 is to decide if your party members will be friends or rivals or not, which will round out your experiences in what is otherwise a fairly linear game. For example, in my first play-through Merrill was my friend but I did not have a relationship with her. She's become my rival in my second play-through and now she's in love with me and living in my house. It probably won't change her major story line at all but it least it makes things more interesting. And as far as choices go, I did regret taking Bethany to the Deep Roads this time because she ended up dying, whereas if I had left her home she would have lived and joined up with my group at the end of the game. I felt so guilty having to tell my mother she was dead! lol

[Vilegrim]

bobo_minky wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

Well not so much the lack of choices but the lack of them having any impact whatsoever on anything. Like no matter how you handle the situation with the Arishock you have to kill him and no matter how you handle the situation with the murder suspect your mother always gets killed. I guess they were really excited about these plot points and wanted to force them  upon you, These are just some examples and there's a lot more situations where the story is completely set in stone and your "choices" are just roundabout ways of getting the same result...

Agreed. The DA2 story is much more linear than DA1's.

I think this is party because in DA2, Bioware was attempting some sort of Action RPG hybrid. Any of us familiar with Action games will know they essentially follow a linear story, That's ok, though, because a.) we don't expcet much choice because it's an Action game, and b.) we're provided with interesting and challenging enemies to beat down, using complex combos and tactics that we learn and figure out along the way. In an action game, as long as the story told is internally consistent and somewhat original and enjoyable, most gamers will end up having a good time.

I really believe that with DA2, the wrong approach was taken with the creation of the game. Instead of building a good, solid action game, and enriching it with RPG elements, they came from a classic RPG background with DA1, from which they took AWAY RPG elements, and tacked on some Action type features. This left the game feeling shallow and linear in RPG terms, and frustrating in Action terms.

if I wanted an action game I'd buy one which I don't so I won't... This was advertised as an RPG so make an RPG not a splatter fest with some rpg elements.  Action/Rpg worked ok for ME2, wish it had been more RPG and less shooty (hell give me Planescape Torment, where pretty much every battle can be talked past given the right information and choices) But DA:O was an old school RPG why defile it within this hybrid mess?  (Which is on my guilty pleasures list, but can't see myself completing it again.

[Halo Quea]

I think what bothered me was after I became Champion...............Nothing Happened.

I continued to be everyone's errand boy and I even had to earn my armor by taking down people whose lives I had previously saved, intervened and helped before. I could have seen if I had earned a raw material and took it to Bohdan and Sandal and they forged the Champion armor the way Wade used to do for my Warden in Origins, but why would these people have the Champ's armor pieces at all?

And why didn't Hawke have some kind of authority? Formed his own order to counter the Templars like the Order of the Hawke/Champion or something? That may sound like a stretch but even the Grey Warden formed his own army. He could have then seized the Viscount's throne and acted as a steward of Kirkwall until the trouble passed and a new ruler could be selected from among the nobles. You know.......CHOICES?

But the worst of it is feeling like you spent the entire game running around Kirkwall like crazy for nothing. Because in the end nothing you did mattered. The Qunari were always going to attack, Anders was always going to blow the place up, the Knight Commander was always going to kill every mage, and every mage in Kirkwall was always going to go insane.

You really feel like you had no impact on any events at all. I mean when Hawke learns that his mother is missing he doesn't even have the kind of reaction that a person SHOULD have when they hear something like that. He doesn't even put it together in time. Instead he WAITS until nightfall to go into Lowtown to follow a trail of blood? Wouldn't the logical place to go would be where you found the severed hand? Hmmm?

Then when Bethany is taken away by Knight Captain Cullen, Hawke does nothing. More importantly he never goes to visit or write his sister even ONCE. In fact the next time Hawke sees Cullen he doesn't say anything about it. Hawke even asks if he can do more running around Kirkwall for the Templars in that conversation. It was yet another time when Hawke reminded me of equally slow witted Commander Shepard. lol

Eh....I know everyone's whining and griping, but when you invest so many hours in RPG, you'd like to know that it all meant something. If Kirkwall was the start of a major war between Templars and Mages then what Hawke did should have mattered.

I guess here's where I ask, "what the does the Seeker want from Hawke anyway?"

[Dangerfoot]

Halo Quea wrote...

I think what bothered me was after I became Champion...............Nothing Happened.

I continued to be everyone's errand boy and I even had to earn my armor by taking down people whose lives I had previously saved, intervened and helped before. I could have seen if I had earned a raw material and took it to Bohdan and Sandal and they forged the Champion armor the way Wade used to do for my Warden in Origins, but why would these people have the Champ's armor pieces at all?

And why didn't Hawke have some kind of authority? Formed his own order to counter the Templars like the Order of the Hawke/Champion or something? That may sound like a stretch but even the Grey Warden formed his own army. He could have then seized the Viscount's throne and acted as a steward of Kirkwall until the trouble passed and a new ruler could be selected from among the nobles. You know.......CHOICES?

But the worst of it is feeling like you spent the entire game running around Kirkwall like crazy for nothing. Because in the end nothing you did mattered. The Qunari were always going to attack, Anders was always going to blow the place up, the Knight Commander was always going to kill every mage, and every mage in Kirkwall was always going to go insane.

You really feel like you had no impact on any events at all. I mean when Hawke learns that his mother is missing he doesn't even have the kind of reaction that a person SHOULD have when they hear something like that. He doesn't even put it together in time. Instead he WAITS until nightfall to go into Lowtown to follow a trail of blood? Wouldn't the logical place to go would be where you found the severed hand? Hmmm?

Then when Bethany is taken away by Knight Captain Cullen, Hawke does nothing. More importantly he never goes to visit or write his sister even ONCE. In fact the next time Hawke sees Cullen he doesn't say anything about it. Hawke even asks if he can do more running around Kirkwall for the Templars in that conversation. It was yet another time when Hawke reminded me of equally slow witted Commander Shepard. lol

Eh....I know everyone's whining and griping, but when you invest so many hours in RPG, you'd like to know that it all meant something. If Kirkwall was the start of a major war between Templars and Mages then what Hawke did should have mattered.

I guess here's where I ask, "what the does the Seeker want from Hawke anyway?"

Yeah, in my playthrough where Bethany is a Warden, I saved her and Nathaniel in the Deep Roads later on, and Hawke goes "Bye Nathaniel, great meeting you!" The first time he's seen his sister in what, 3 years? And don't Grey Wardens only live 10 years after their joining? Regardless, I just acted like it was no big deal. Where is the *hug Bethany and pack her a sandwich* option?

[Riloux]

There is no choice in this game. You are watching the story of Hawke unfold while your job is to fill it in with colorful dialogue.

[surfgirlusa_2006]

While the end of the game annoyed me, I think the devs were trying to show that both sides were equally problematic. There was no "copout" ending like with Morrigan's dark ritual, or even recruiting the mages to save Connor. Remember how people complained those options were cheap and made the story less dark?

In DA2, we realize that both the mages and the templars are majorly messed up. Try as we might to make things right, we can't. Both sides are too far gone, and there is no "cheap," happy solution to Kirkwall's (and the world's) problems. I would have liked things to play out differently at the end based on whether you sided with the mages or templars, but I can see where Bioware was trying to go with this.

My real hope is that siding with the mages/templars has an impact in a future expansion pack or DA3. If we have to wait until then to see the consequences of our actions, I won't mind. Personal opinion, though.

[Statulos]

Let´s draw some comparisions between both instalments of Dragon Age:

*Origins & Awakening:

-You decide the fate of a circle. Annihilated, saved, rebuilt with more rights...
-You take down a regent and get a new king and/or queen for Ferelden.
-You decide a new king for Orzamar.
-You can wipe out a dalish clan or benefit them to the point that they get lands.
-You can make the life conditions of an alienage better and empower them.
-You can discover the most sacred object of a faith and spread the word about its existence.
-You can potentially end the threat of more Blights.

And those are the grand-scale choices in the game; I´m not counting the small ones such as turning the life of a bard upside down, turning a peasant into a knight or helping a legit charity start.

Dragon Age 2:
-You cannot stay neutral in a conflict and minimize the bloodshed, even if you try for the whole game.
-You cannot push a legitimate ruler to take over his duties.
-You cannot clearly improve or profit from the situation of many people in a city even when you´re said to be influential.
-You cannot even keep your friends at your side!

[Halo Quea]

Riloux wrote...

There is no choice in this game. You are watching the story of Hawke unfold while your job is to fill it in with colorful dialogue.

And Hawke doesn't really act like he cares all that much about what's going on anyway.    lol

[Etforde]

 What I really hate about the game is that it isn't possible to decline certain quests.. No matter how hard you try to decline the quests you're still being forced to do it, and the questgiver often talks to you as if you said "yeah of course I'll do it!". He doesn't even say anything like "There is no other way. You MUST do this."

There are also several things that just doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it. Such as a quest where you help the Knight Captain slay the templar-abomination. I was in a party with 3 mages, where 2 of them were blood mages. We used blood magic spells and all sorts of spells. He didn't even mention it with a single word that we were apostates, despite having witnessed the whole fight. There are MANY other incidents like this in a game, and it's just darn irritating.

I also agree with what the others say, that DA2 isn't enjoyable to play through more than once, maybe twice. Once you've done almost all the quests, you've basicly seen everything the game has to offer. The main plot-line doesn't change in any notable way depending on your choises.

With that said, the look and feel of the game is amazing. The combat is buttery smooth and I love it (at least on normal which is what I play at).

I'd rate this game a 6/10. I can't imagine what they've been smoking those who rated this game 9/10. It's NOT that good.

Modifié par Etforde, 17 mars 2011 - 09:29 .

[Iwostin]

I wondered after my first playthrough ... Do you always fight Meredith at the end,? Does she betrays you even if you side with her and the templar ?

[20x6]

DrekorSilverfang wrote...

It's very difficult to tell a story and have it not be linear.

Ever played Chrono Trigger for the SNES?
There was more choice in an old 16bit SNES RPG than in this game and the Story was great.



What I do think though is that they are planning on milking the ever-living-***** out of this story with DLC and "expansions" to ramp up for the next-gen console edition of Dragon Age.  They made it linear so they could easily reuse this story as the basis for the next one.

Not a bad move, but as a standalone title, DA:2 left a slightly bad aftertaste on my position towards investing in bioware titles as freely as I have done before.

[Dokarqt]

Riloux wrote...

There is no choice in this game. You are watching the story of Hawke unfold while your job is to fill it in with colorful dialogue.

Well put.

[Lianaar]

DA:O was about Ferelden. So your decisions took effect on Ferelden.
DA2 is about Hawke, and the decisions took effect on your friends and family. I do wish we could have saved the mother, yes. But still most of the impact you have (your decisions) are centered around your companions.

I do not really know how you define action RPG, action game or RPG game. For me RPG means, that role playing makes a difference. I did get that from DA2, depending on my decisions and morality people responded to me differently and I had different emotions and different moral questions to face. Isn't this what roleplaying is about? That said, I could have done with a bite more impact on the city as a whole, but I am willing to give up on that for companion reactions and a promise of sequel.

[Nathan Redgrave]

There's a fair point, here. Depending on your choices in Origins, you could wind up doing very different things. For example, the werewolves and the elves, or Bhelen and Harrowmont. This type of choice in DA2 essentially has you doing the same quests for one of two different people, but in Origins, you could (for example) have the choice between 1) fighting Witherfang and taking his heart, 2) forcefully "convincing" Zathrien to aid the werewolves, 3) taking a regiment of werewolves back to the Dalish camp and slaughtering them all to gain the help of the werewolves instead. Three notably different endings with three notably different outcomes, not so much affecting gameplay after the fact, but providing differences in gameplay during the fact. Bhelen and Harrowmont gave you such choices as 1) entering the Provings, 2) chasing down nobles to inform them of political foul play, or 3) doing a quest for one politician with the intention of double-crossing them in service of the other (just in case: yes, if you, for example, do Harrowmont's quest and then approach Bhelen's agent, you can offer to help Bhelen by getting in Harrowmont's good books).

It's not as drastic as one might think, though; the majority of the game is largely the same. It's just that the gravity of the choices and the non-linear order you undertake the main plot quests in provides a stronger sense of choice. Add to that the six different origin stories, and it's a pretty awesome feeling.

DA2's choices do tend to feel pretty impotent after multiple playthroughs, even relatively speaking. It's more on the plane of Mass Effect 2 than Dragon Age: Origins.

P.S. You actually can help the Archdemon, dreman. It's called "The Darkspawn Chronicles." =P