19 réponses à ce sujet

[Clonedzero]

in some cases imported files work perfectly, sometimes when they make the more obscure odd choices they arent translated as well. also i think theres an issue with some of the DLC choices importing correctly.

your run of the mill average playthrough will be imported fine though, but if you import one where you like kill everyone and do a bunch of other weird stuff then that might not work as well

[Dean_the_Young]

Dragon Age has always had a linear plot with cosmetic differences. In Origins, those differences were the ally-substitutes as to who exactly would fill which placeholder role. In Awakening, the only non-linearity was what order you did the quests in. In DA2, it's still cosmetic differences.

[Edge2177]

I'd say it is not linear, as you can choose which quests to do in what order. However each 'act' is linear. And there are 3 of them.

[AlexXIV]

I am thinking Bioware right now tends to forget things they said before after a rather short time. Which leads to them saying completey different things every half year. DA is about this, no wait about that. This will be our focus, oh no wait this is our focus.

It's as linear as it was to expect. Mass Effect is also pretty much linear. If you look at it, BG and BG2 were also pretty much linear. You can at best make inferior choices which don't really have a big impact on the world or history. I think Bioware was planning to do alot more than they do now, probably because they realized not everything they wanted to do was possible to do.

The problem I think is general content which is available to every player in every playthrough and optional content, which is only available to the players who have made specific choices. Optional content does have a chance to be missed entirely, if the player never makes the decission which 'unlocks' it. So they are not very fond of that it seems.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 17 mars 2011 - 03:56 .

[Dangerfoot]

It is incredibly linear. There are a number of quests that you have to do in order to progress to the next act, and you pretty much have to make the exact same decisions on every playthrough with TINY, TINY differences.

I understand why they did this though, because this game existed merely to set up the third game, there are a lot of things that "have to happen" for the third one to be at all organized. It's still lazy, linear gameplay though. And if the third one doesn't have massively unique choices that actually affect your ending, I'm not buying it or any other Bioware game ever again. I enjoyed playing DA2, but it is also a huge disappointment in a lot of ways.

[nelly21]

Any game with a defined storyline is linear. The ranting and raving on this forum about linearity and lack of choice is disingenuous. In DAO, you were the Warden. You couldn't decide not to be the Warden. You could decide your origin but even then, you were always going to be the Warden. If you played an evil character, you couldn't say, "F*** this! I'm sailing to Tevinter, you guys deal with the Blight". You could choose which quests to do at any given time but those quests were always going to end the same with a few exceptions.

In DA2, Hawke is going to be the Champion. Nothing you say or do can change that. The entire story is based around that fact. It's not any more or less linear than DAO was. You are following the storyline the same way you would any other BioWare game.

The only way to break linearity is to not have a set storyline a la Mount and Blade. Personally, I prefer a good story to sandbox gameplay. That's me. But DA 2 isn't any more linear than DAO, ME1 & 2, Jade Empire, KOTOR and yes, BG 1 & 2.

Modifié par nelly21, 17 mars 2011 - 04:13 .

[Arrtis]

I dont know what I want from a game.
Other than for it to be long and fun.

[Dangerfoot]

nelly21 wrote...

Any game with a defined storyline is linear. The ranting and raving on this forum about linearity and lack of choice is disingenuous. In DAO, you were the Warden. You couldn't decide not to be the Warden. You could decide your origin but even then, you were always going to be the Warden. If you played an evil character, you couldn't say, "F*** this! I'm sailing to Tevinter, you guys deal with the Blight". You could choose which quests to do at any given time but those quests were always going to end the same with a few exceptions.

In DA2, Hawke is going to be the Champion. Nothing you say or do can change that. The entire story is based around that fact. It's not any more or less linear than DAO was. You are following the storyline the same way you would any other BioWare game.

The only way to break linearity is to not have a set storyline a la Mount and Blade. Personally, I prefer a good story to sandbox gameplay. That's me. But DA 2 isn't any more linear than DAO, ME1 & 2, Jade Empire, KOTOR and yes, BG 1 & 2.

I didn't mind the linearity of DAO so much because you still got to experience the game in several different ways. Each origin had dialogue pop up, and characters reappear that you might not have noticed your last time through the game. 6 Different origins. Then there was the ending, depending on which troops you chose to aid, there were different outcomes, specifically for the werewolves and the Dalish. After that, there's the fact that you could choose the ruler of all of Fereldon, and you could also choose how you wanted to defeat the Blight, by sacrificing yourself, Allistair, Lohgain or making the god baby.

What do you do in DA2 that actually affects the major plot?
Choose mages -> "This lead to mages all over rebelling"
Choose templars -> "This lead to mages all over rebelling"
"And then the Champion left his allies behind, well all of them except [enter love interest]."

Totally shallow choices in this one. Here's hoping that they don't force DA3 into fitting such a straight path.

[nelly21]

Dangerfoot wrote...

I didn't mind the linearity of DAO so much because you still got to experience the game in several different ways. Each origin had dialogue pop up (you can experience this depending on your class), and characters reappear that you might not have noticed your last time through the game (for all of about 2 minutes). 6 Different origins (which did'nt change the story). Then there was the ending, depending on which troops you chose to aid (which didn't change anything), there were different outcomes, specifically for the werewolves and the Dalish (again, didn't change the story, and I found the elves less cool than the werewolves but more useful for the Archdemon lol). After that, there's the fact that you could choose the ruler of all of Fereldon (you can be viscount or not), and you could also choose how you wanted to defeat the Blight, by sacrificing yourself, Allistair, Lohgain or making the god baby (again, not affecting the story).

What do you do in DAO that actually affects the major plot?
Choose Alistair -> The Blight ends
Choose Loghain -> The Blight ends.
Choose Sacrifice-> The Blight ends.
Choose Dark Ritual-> The Blight ends.

"And then the Warden left his allies behind, well all of them except [enter love interest]."

You see? What you are talking about is window dressing. The story in DAO never changed. The differences were inconsequential. No matter what you do, you are the Grey Warden that is going to defeat the Blight. In DA2 you are going to be the Champion and be at the center of the Mage/Templar schism. How you get there has variables as well. Which party members will stay with you? I had to kill Fenris on my mage playthrough. I could have chosen to remain on the friendship path and he would have fought alongside me. Or I could have sided with the Templars and become viscount. It's the same thing.

Modifié par nelly21, 17 mars 2011 - 04:46 .

[Pileyourbodies]

Dragon ages plot is like a tree. A tree is basically going to be straight up and down but it will have branches occasionally going off to the side.

[Dangerfoot]

nelly21 wrote...

Dangerfoot wrote...

I didn't mind the linearity of DAO so much because you still got to experience the game in several different ways. Each origin had dialogue pop up (you can experience this depending on your class), and characters reappear that you might not have noticed your last time through the game (for all of about 2 minutes). 6 Different origins (which did'nt change the story). Then there was the ending, depending on which troops you chose to aid (which didn't change anything), there were different outcomes, specifically for the werewolves and the Dalish (again, didn't change the story, and I found the elves less coll than the werewolves but more useful for the Archdemon lol). After that, there's the fact that you could choose the ruler of all of Fereldon (you can be viscount or not), and you could also choose how you wanted to defeat the Blight, by sacrificing yourself, Allistair, Lohgain or making the god baby (again, not affecting the story).

What do you do in DAO that actually affects the major plot?
Choose Alistair -> The Blight ends
Choose Loghain -> The Blight ends.
Choose Sacrifice-> The Blight ends.
Choose Dark Ritual-> The Blight ends.

"And then the Warden left his allies behind, well all of them except [enter love interest]."

You see? What you are talking about is window dressing. The story in DAO never changed. The differences were inconsequential. No matter what you do, you are the Grey Warden that is going to defeat the Blight. In DA2 you are going to be the Champion and be at the center of the Mage/Templar schism. How you get there has variables as well. Which party members will stay with you? I had to kill Fenris on my mage playthrough. I could have chosen to remain on the friendship path and he would have fought alongside me. Or I could have sided with the Templars and become viscount. It's the same thing.

In DAO all of those variables made the ending epiloge different. So yes, it did have an effect on the story. And your choice of which 6 origins you chose had just as much custom dialogue as the 2 choices you get in DA2. The game was not massively different when I decided to be a mage, just like it wasn't massively different in the last game when I chose Dalish. Only difference is that I had 3 times as many choices.

Same goes with the Viscount or not Viscount choice. That's another choice between two things. In the last game you got to chose to be Allistairs Wife or mistress, to have him Marry Anora or rule alone, or to let her rule. There are tons of these choices regardles of wether they made gameplay drastically different, they DID make the story very different, saying otherwise is just silly. "Ended the Blight" is just a huge oversimplification.

In DA2 there are like 4-5 sets of choices consisting of 2 options, and in the end it is all pretty much the same.

[nelly21]

Dangerfoot wrote...

In DAO all of those variables made the ending epiloge different. So yes, it did have an effect on the story. And your choice of which 6 origins you chose had just as much custom dialogue as the 2 choices you get in DA2. The game was not massively different when I decided to be a mage, just like it wasn't massively different in the last game when I chose Dalish. Only difference is that I had 3 times as many choices. (

Same goes with the Viscount or not Viscount choice. That's another choice between two things. In the last game you got to chose to be Allistairs Wife or mistress, to have him Marry Anora or rule alone, or to let her rule. There are tons of these choices regardles of wether they made gameplay drastically different, they DID make the story very different, saying otherwise is just silly. "Ended the Blight" is just a huge oversimplification.(And your description of DA 2 ending wasn't?)

In DA2 there are like 4-5 sets of choices consisting of 2 options, and in the end it is all pretty much the same.

So in conclusion, you prefer 25-30 sets of choices consisting of 60-70 options, which don't affect the story save for a sentence in the epilogue?

[MortalEngines]

nelly21 wrote...
So in conclusion, you prefer 25-30 sets of choices consisting of 60-70 options, which don't affect the story save for a sentence in the epilogue?

^ This x 1000

I don't see people's love and adornation to epilogue slides. To me they seem like the cheap way out in showing the consequences of your actions. I prefer more reactive choices that I see the consequences of in-game rather than in a block of text that is very easy to write.

[Icy Magebane]

I'm glad the plot is linear this time. It's better to just tell one story than over-extend themselves with a lot of options they can't reconcile.

[Dangerfoot]

nelly21 wrote...

So in conclusion, you prefer 25-30 sets of choices consisting of 60-70 options, which don't affect the story save for a sentence in the epilogue?

Nice slippery slope, because I don't like no options, I must prefer way too many.

I saw multiple unique endings with actual graphics and dialogue (not just the ending slides) in DAO. At least 3 (since that's how many times I beat it) very different endings.

All you get for your decision in DA2 is a slightly different art rendering of Varric's story-book recounting of events.
Side with Templars -> red swirls go around an armored champion as Varric says the rebellion happened because people disagreed with what the champion had done.
Side with Mages -> blue swirls fo around an armored champion as Varric says the rebellion happened because people were inspired by what the champion had done.

Maybe the swirls weren't even different colors, I might have overestimated their ability to make 2 different cutscenes.

[Medhia Nox]

The best you can ask for is the "epilogue slides" - it's literally impossible to provide real roleplaying in a video game (not true - Neverwinter Nights provides it with their DM Client and Toolset - but I digress).

- I didn't want to kill the Archdaemon requires a whole new game.

=====

I loved Dragon Age because of the epilogue. My mage freed the Ferelden Circle the GOOD way - not the psycho Anders way. My noble gave Amaranthine to the Grey Wardens. They're small - but they're implications of real consequence.

====

Tell me a game where you get more than a cut screen or text epilogue of your choices? What game - in the middle - completely alters the storyline with two (or more) totally separate endings?

[jweath]

I don't think it is any less linear than Origins. Seriously, Origins looked wide open to choices but it was not. Ever try going to Ozamar before Circle Tower or Redcliffe? You get your butt kicked by the limiting encounter. Go to Denerim too soon and you get your butt kicked by the guy who duels you. Go to Haven too quick and you have to defile the ashes because you can't beat the boss if you fight him. You had a choice between one of three story elements to do first but overall it was pretty linear. You could do circle before Redcliffe but really Brecellian had to be around Haven especially if you want Juggernaut armor. Try fighting reverants just after Lothering not pretty regardless of tactics.

The Act system just make it look more linear. DAO was clearly designed to go Redcliffe/circle, Brecellian, Denerim, Haven, Ozamar, back to Denerim. The first three you could shuffle around a bit but the last 3 you really could not. Both games are like the GTA series. You have a fairly linear story line with some choices of how to get there. You can go straight to line D you have to do lines A,B, and C to get there but A,B, and C don't necessarily have to be done in order.

I think the act system just makes the linearity more obvious. You felt you could go anywhere and do anything at any time in Origins but that was simply not true. I can't imagine taking on the Brood mother right out of Lothering. Even if it is scaled down you don't have the range of spells and abilities to use the tactics that are needed at level 7 or even at level 10.

[Kemor]

nelly21 wrote...

Any game with a defined storyline is linear. The ranting and raving on this forum about linearity and lack of choice is disingenuous. In DAO, you were the Warden. You couldn't decide not to be the Warden. You could decide your origin but even then, you were always going to be the Warden. If you played an evil character, you couldn't say, "F*** this! I'm sailing to Tevinter, you guys deal with the Blight". You could choose which quests to do at any given time but those quests were always going to end the same with a few exceptions.

In DA2, Hawke is going to be the Champion. Nothing you say or do can change that. The entire story is based around that fact. It's not any more or less linear than DAO was. You are following the storyline the same way you would any other BioWare game.

The only way to break linearity is to not have a set storyline a la Mount and Blade. Personally, I prefer a good story to sandbox gameplay. That's me. But DA 2 isn't any more linear than DAO, ME1 & 2, Jade Empire, KOTOR and yes, BG 1 & 2.

I don't think I've met any RPG game that is not linear in some ways. What differences them however is the "feel" of choice and to me, that's what is SEVERLY lacking in DA2.

In DA:O, you can play your Warden in tons of ways, so many that I'm on my 4th playthrough and still have options I'd like to try out. Not only there is your origin, but also each and every single choices you can make while dealing with the 4 treaties. You can also play an honorable warden or a murdering bastard, you can choose to help with ferelden's little problems (tons of side quests) or just focus on THAT one big threat. You can impact 4 different "factions" in ways that are so different that it sometimes boggles the mind to be honest AND you can impact the ending in multiple different ways.
Sure, at the end of the day, the Archdemon WILL die...but how you get there, the journey to that pivotal point, is nearly entirely up to you.


In DA2, your choices I felt are VERY limited and since there is no "end goal" like there was in DA:O, everything feels completely disconnected. You HAVE to murder almost everyone in sight to get the cash, you HAVE to go with Varric and Barthan (why can't you go yourself? I mean YOU got the maps...). You are forced to finish missions with no link whatsoever to what you're doing at the current time, with no explanation such as to get into the deep roads for example, I HAD to finish act of mercy, which at that point just feels like some unimportant side quests. And to all this, there are no explanations whatsoever.
Also, you are dropped with some completely illogical stuffs such as your Brother/Sister going into mage circle/templar for no reason, or them dying to the taint in the Deep Roads, for NO REASON whatsoever. There is also no way whatsoever to prevent Anders from blowing up the Chantry, which is, by the way, the ENTIRE point of the game.

DA2 was not a game I actually played, it's a game I watched (and quite frankly, it's like being forced to watch a bad movie). Events were very often completely illogical and nearly the entire game I felt like I was totally unimportant as a main character.
DA:O was MY warden's story and I impacted the game with every single choices I made, for 30+ hours. Every single action was logical in context, quests were logical, actions had consequences.

[Kemor]

jweath wrote...

I don't think it is any less linear than Origins. Seriously, Origins looked wide open to choices but it was not. Ever try going to Ozamar before Circle Tower or Redcliffe? You get your butt kicked by the limiting encounter. Go to Denerim too soon and you get your butt kicked by the guy who duels you. Go to Haven too quick and you have to defile the ashes because you can't beat the boss if you fight him. You had a choice between one of three story elements to do first but overall it was pretty linear. You could do circle before Redcliffe but really Brecellian had to be around Haven especially if you want Juggernaut armor. Try fighting reverants just after Lothering not pretty regardless of tactics.

Totally untrue. I did 4 playthroughs so far and did different things almost every time. On my last playthrough I was a Dalish elf origin so I went to the Dalish first, then Redcliff and directly after that Haven. All this on hard. Sure some battles are rough but didn't feel it overall more difficult. In a previous playthrough, I was a Dwarven noble so went to Ozrimmar first and no problem there either. On my first playthrough I was a human noble so went directly Denerim to check it out (can't do much there then), then Redcliff, the directly Haven, the Circle etc.

I think the act system just makes the linearity more obvious. You felt you could go anywhere and do anything at any time in Origins but that was simply not true. I can't imagine taking on the Brood mother right out of Lothering. Even if it is scaled down you don't have the range of spells and abilities to use the tactics that are needed at level 7 or even at level 10.

It's not the "Act" system that is causing issues in DA2, it's the fact that there is no relation whatsoever between them, no "grand story" to all this. You spent 20 hours dealing with some crap left and right and then you learn that the entire point of the story is a worldwide conflict between Mages and Templars AND, unlike DA:O, you don't even solve that so there are no actual ending...
There was a point to playing DA:O, there is no point to playing DA2.