82 réponses à ce sujet

[bartgaathard]

When discussing the difficulty of the fights in DA2 compared to DAO it's important to make an honest comparison, which means:
- Judge both games at the same difficulty level: normal, hard or nightmare.
- Try to compare your current DA2 experience with what you remember from the first 1 or 2 weeks playing DAO.
- Only talk about unmodded DAO.

When talking difficulty, the general opinion on these forums boils down to the following 2 statements:
1. DAO required a lot more strategy, had more different skills and FF on all levels. Therefor DAO was harder. People supporting this view often refer to DA2 combat as just "button mashing".
2. DA2 fights have larger numbers of mobs, longer cooldowns on potions and healing spells and since most mobs just spawn out of thin air you can't "prepare" for them. Therefor DA2 is - especially in NM mode - at least as hard as DAO.

My personal experience though is that DA2 is quite a bit harder than DAO (which doesn't make it a better game, per se). I would even go that far as to say that DAO nightmare = DA2 hard mode. For me it's primarily the following things that made DAO fights a lot easier to survive:
- Strategic zoom level
- More healing spells, with shorter timers on them
- No spontaneously spawning mobs
- Party seemed to respond better to commands than in DA2 (bug or feature?)

What's your view?

Modifié par bartgaathard, 17 mars 2011 - 03:40 .

[Trapslick]

DAO was much easier, but more fun...
the ability to make your tank resists magic easily without sacraficing skills aloud the more powerful AoE spells of DAO to destroy enemies easier should be added to that list

Modifié par Trapslick, 17 mars 2011 - 03:48 .

[Boradam]

I never played Nightmare on either game, but I did Hard.

So far I have to say Dragon Age 2 is a bit harder and can require a bit of tactical thinking because you have to micromanage during boss fights (Specifically the Rock Wraith and High Dragon) as the timers are alot longer, and can change alot during a fight, though there are some fights where it just becomes a button mashing contest.

However...
Dragon Age had alot more fights where you would have to use tactics, though it wasn't exactly difficult after you got everyone in place. With the right tactics in DA:O, it just becomes a waiting contest for when the enemy dies, the potions regenerated ridiculously fast (something I was a bit sad about then), and cooldowns are low.

Overall I find Dragon Age 2 alot harder, you can't prepare tactics for out of the blue attacks and it definantly forces you to formulate something on the spot, or at least position everyone in the right area.

[gingerbill]

DA2 is definetly harder but not always in a good way . I love the new combat but the enemy spawning on top of you is awful , 5 templars appearing next to your mage out the blue makes it harder but isnt fun at all.

[gelfie]

DAO required more thought in Nightmare mode whereas DA II requires a good deal of tenacity to get through each encounter. Almost every fight brings wave upon wave of an excess of enemies to fight and it quickly becomes tiresome instead of interesting and challenging. I hope they tone the numbers down in a future patch. Less is more and all that.

[Trapslick]

i wish they could think of a way to increase the dificulty to the level of DA2 with the pre-planning in DAO... random enemies was just not as much fun

@gelfie: i thought the hordes of weak enemies were fun... its just them poping out of nowhere wasn't

Modifié par Trapslick, 17 mars 2011 - 04:01 .

[Tekman9]

i think DA2 is a lot harder

[Graunt]

bartgaathard wrote...
My personal experience though is that DA2 is quite a bit harder than DAO (which doesn't make it a better game, per se). I would even go that far as to say that DAO nightmare = DA2 hard mode. For me it's primarily the following things that made DAO fights a lot easier to survive:
- Strategic zoom level
- More healing spells, with shorter timers on them
- No spontaneously spawning mobs
- Party seemed to respond better to commands than in DA2 (bug or feature?)

What's your view?

DA:O Nightmare was nothing compared to Nightmare in DA2, but it's mostly due to the annoying Assassins, constant immunities and having to swtich staves every other fight and the non stop "ANOTHER WAVE" garbage.  The party AI is also horrible, but it was horrible in DA:O as well.  Bioware simply has no idea what they are doing when it comes to AI.  The Mass Effect games are another primary example of this.

As far as the difficulties below Nightmare, they are a lot easier than in DA:O.

DA2 is definetly harder but not always in a good way . I love the new
combat but the enemy spawning on top of you is awful , 5 templars
appearing next to your mage out the blue makes it harder but isnt fun at
all.

Exactly, it's a very poor mechanic and doesn't require any "strategy" because you had no idea where or if more would actually spawn.  It's lame that sometimes you have to redo a fight simply because of spawn locations that you couldn't have known anything about.

Modifié par Graunt, 17 mars 2011 - 04:35 .

[gelfie]

Trapslick wrote...

i wish they could think of a way to increase the dificulty to the level of DA2 with the pre-planning in DAO... random enemies was just not as much fun

@gelfie: i thought the hordes of weak enemies were fun... its just them poping out of nowhere wasn't

The weak enemies were certainly fun to blast with lightning :innocent: but there are usually a good number of much stronger ones to deal with too on Nightmare which gets a bit wearing. When I wrote my post I was chiefly thinking of the Side Alley part of Act II's Blackpowder Courtesy quest which is where it lost that fun factor for me. It wasn't that it was hard just that each of the latch+barrel interactions brought three waves of enemies to deal with and nothing interesting to do in between bar to [gratefully] hit QuickSave.

[wowpwnslol]

DA Nightmare is harder, but not thanks to superior AI - it's because enemies magically appear behind you negating positioning, bosses have zillion HP (and they use potions) and have to be kited for 20 minutes. One hit kills making a lot of battles be a decided by luck. DA 2 is NM is hard thanks to terrible game mechanics and poor design rather than genius computer outplaying you.

[Graunt]

wowpwnslol wrote...

DA Nightmare is harder, but not thanks to superior AI - it's because enemies magically appear behind you negating positioning, bosses have zillion HP (and they use potions) and have to be kited for 20 minutes. One hit kills making a lot of battles be a decided by luck. DA 2 is NM is hard thanks to terrible game mechanics and poor design rather than genius computer outplaying you.

I have no idea what you're talking about.  This is exactly how DA2 is, and nothing in DA was like this at all besides Revenants, but even those didn't need to be kited and were not that hard.  It also didn't have any bosses that required you to respec.  Playing Primal/Force all the way up to the Ancient Rock Wraith is cakewalk, and then you hit a brick wall and have to respec or simply be useless the entire time.

Modifié par Graunt, 17 mars 2011 - 04:38 .

[Tekman9]

yeah just to echo what ppl are saying. its harder but its a 'cheap' feeling. spawning waves on your head is just meh

[BanditGR]

Graunt wrote...

wowpwnslol wrote...

DA Nightmare is harder, but not thanks to superior AI - it's because enemies magically appear behind you negating positioning, bosses have zillion HP (and they use potions) and have to be kited for 20 minutes. One hit kills making a lot of battles be a decided by luck. DA 2 is NM is hard thanks to terrible game mechanics and poor design rather than genius computer outplaying you.

I have no idea what you're talking about.  This is exactly how DA2 is, and nothing in DA was like this at all besides Revenants, but even those didn't need to be kited and were not that hard.  It also didn't have any bosses that required you to respec.  Playing Primal/Force all the way up to the Ancient Rock Wraith is cakewalk, and then you hit a brick wall and have to respec or simply be useless the entire time.

I think he forgot a 2 somewhere in his initial statement about DA

And yes, DA2 is a lot harder than Origins on any difficulty level other than casual perhaps. But not in a 'challenging' way but more like a cheesy way.

[AsaTJ]

Difficulty Hierarchy:

(Lowest to Highest)

DA2 Casual
DA2 Normal
Origins Normal
Origins Hard
DA2 Hard
Origins Nightmare
DA2 Nightmare.

DA2 Nightmare, especially, is significantly more challenging than all of the rest. And it's not *that* much harder than Origins once you learn that Origins tactics aren't worth nug droppings in DA2.

Sword and board for the lose.

[PlumPaul93]

It's really not hard, it only gets hard when enemies appear from the sky behind your mages/ranged characters, it's hard only because it's cheap.

[highcastle]

I haven't played nightmare mode, just normal and hard. That being said, I definitely think da2 is easier at least on these levels. Origins kicked my butt even on normal my first time through. Now perhaps I've just adapted to the gameplay, but not once in my first playthrough did I have a full party wipe. I think the spawning enemies and lack of friendly fire have something to do with it. The waves between enemies give you time to cool your abilities.

Now nightmare might very well be harder but not everyone wants to choose between very easy or crushingly difficult.

[AsaTJ]

I basically agree, but to play archdemon's advocate, it does still make you think. It just makes you think in a different way. Rather than having a plan from the beginning, you have to keep making new plans throughout the battle. I'd prefer to go back to the way Origins did it, but for what it's worth, I think DA2 is just as tactical and thought-intensive.

Modifié par AsaTJ, 17 mars 2011 - 06:27 .

[Parrk]

I do not know that they made it harder so much as they disabled all the most obviously overpowered tricks.

In origins, once you learned that you could run precision and 2x haste on a DW warrior without it "rolling-over" and actually being slower than 1 haste alone....then the game was pretty much over. They could have sent 1000 mobs against that setup and it wouldn't have made a difference.

Likewise, if you were accustomed to playing an arcane warrior then the lack of that completely imbalanced spec would make the game seem harder.

At the same time though, this game has given birth to a new breed of absurdly-overpowered specs and techniques. Those who have bothered to actually learn the cross-class combos to the point that they know which of all 3 class' abilities set them up, and which knock 'em down, will probably say that this game is easier since you can nearly 1-shot many of the bosses by simply landing a winter's-grasp-enabled-brittle effect (about a 40% chance) followed by an assassinate for more than 15k damage.

They took away rolling haste, dw wars, arcane wars and a few other things that should have been removed, or at least rebalanced, but in return they have given you an easy-to-learn system that opens the door to godly single-shot damage.

It is not harder, you jsut haven't learned it yet.



Even without the combos, scythe-whirlwind kills half the mobs in nearly every fight in the first 3 secs.

Likewise, fire-raining-from-sky coupled with "zomg aoe lightening!" finishes entire fights for you while you watch. 

IF you can't be bothered to even do that, then crushig prison is back and stronger than ever....r+1 your way to success!

Modifié par Parrk, 17 mars 2011 - 06:39 .

[Distilled]

Boss fights in DA2 are better done and on Nightmare are legitimately more difficult than most of DA:O's boss fights, making them more entertaining.

As for regular enemies, DA2 is more difficult only because of the frustrating mechanics revolving around most enemies (bizarre immunities, assassins every other wave, every fight being in waves designed to surround you, etc.) and results in DA:O being less difficult, but more fun.

[AsaTJ]

I think *all* of the boss fights in DA2 are more difficult (and more interesting) than the ones in Origins.
The only fights in Origins that required you to do anything other than hold aggro and keep your tank alive were Uldred (hit the "Swiper No Blood Magic!" button every once in a while) and the Archdemon (tank him, shoot him with siege weapons, then tank him again.)
All of the major boss battles in DA2 have multiple mechanics you actually have to pay attention to.

[Crocodiles]

It sucks that I was able to put the archdemon to sleep and paralyze him, but I cant do the same to some enemies in da2

[JamesX]

Normal DAO is harder than Normal DA2. I have had party wipe on normal DAO because I just started and didn't know what I am doing. Going into DA2 blind as a bat I still didn't die. Mainly because the skills for DA2 is better designed (no real useless skills).

DAO Nightmare is easier than DA2 Hard.

There is no comparison to DA2 Nightmare.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Origins was harder in a tactical sense, as the battle arrangements were more specific and varried. DA2 is harder in the sense that enemies almost always swarm you in multiple waves, which in every difficulty except Casual, don't die quite as quickly as a lot of the enemies in Origins. Rather than being harder, it just takes longer. Honestly, if it weren't for the smoother battle system, it wouldn't be as fun as the original.

And yes, DA2 is a bit easier partly because the skills are less likely to lead you down a useless development path.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 17 mars 2011 - 11:05 .

[Graunt]

Parrk wrote...
Even without the combos, scythe-whirlwind kills half the mobs in nearly every fight in the first 3 secs.

Yeah, that works fantastically on all of the areas where the enemies are spaced out about four or five character lengths apart.  The only places this actually works would be narrow alley/docks fights or small rooms in a cave.  Otherwise you either have to "round them up" or you're going to be doing a lot of auto attacking until your cooldowns refresh.

[Loc'n'lol]

IMO : DA2 casual < DAO casual =~ DA2 normal < DAO normal < DAO hard =~ DA2 hard =~ DAO nightmare < DA2 nightmare
(PC, unmodded, unpatched)