128 réponses à ce sujet

[Anarya]

Title kinda says it all, but I was mostly happy with how the game ended except for Orsino and the penultimate battle. Seriously it makes no sense at all. AT ALL. I liked Orsino, and he was reasonable all throughout Act 3 until he goes all crazy flesh golem on you. So what's the justification for that? Just a way to put another boss battle in and give you a way to get his awesome staff? From a story point of view it's nonsensical. If he had done this as an act of desperation against Meredith and/or the Templars it might have been kind of logical, but he does it surrounded by allies. It's about as useful to his cause as if he kamikaze'd into his own side's forces, which I guess is sort of what happens. 

Is there a way to see this that I'm missing, other than "guy losing his mind out of nowhere"?

[thesuperdarkone]

It only makes sense of you help the templars. If you help the mages, it doesn't make sense and is only there so you can have a boss fight.

[Anarya]

Ah, I guess that must be it then. I have yet to side with the Templars (that'll be my next play).

[Bann Duncan]

Not out of nowhere. He was a psycho from the beginning; we just didn't know it. Notice that he name-dropped the Lily killer before going all flesh golem.

Meredith had the idol excuse - Orsino was vermin. I only wish there had been more hints about his dealings earlier.

[Merced652]

So you realized it doesn't matter who you side with since it all ends up in the same exact place? The damn seeker called my bro a hero even though i spit on the chantry every chance i got. Undoubtedly she said the same if you sided with the templars.

[Anarya]

Wait what? He mentions the killer? Ohhhh wait right, he does. The research...

I noticed that note in the killer's lair signed O. and thought it was fishy.

Orsino whyyy. Your model is so cool ;_;

[Lithuasil]

He could've at least waited until the people he's trying to protect are out the door :/

[Pileyourbodies]

He basically says that he helped the lily killer do his research. Orsino was insane since act one.

[Bann Duncan]

Anarya wrote...

Wait what? He mentions the killer? Ohhhh wait right, he does. The research...

I noticed that note in the killer's lair signed O. and thought it was fishy.

Orsino whyyy. Your model is so cool ;_;

I didn't make the connection until well after I finished, but after that I cannot think of him with anything but raw venom.

[NRO TYN]

Dragon age wiki says he was the person sending notes to the mage that killed your mother Quentin, and that he learned blood magic from him.

[Anarya]

Merced652 wrote...

So you realized it doesn't matter who you side with since it all ends up in the same exact place? The damn seeker called my bro a hero even though i spit on the chantry every chance i got. Undoubtedly she said the same if you sided with the templars.

Well probably she does, but we don't really know much about her as a person other than she's a Seeker and from Nevarra. It could make sense with her character.

Anyway Varric's entire objective with telling his story to Cassandra is to humanize the Champion. Perhaps she's more open-minded than you might think.

The loss of player agency though in the story is one major issue I had with the game. I did like the story otherwise.

[Lithuasil]

Pileyourbodies wrote...

He basically says that he helped the lily killer do his research. Orsino was insane since act one.

How far he was involved is uncertain - either way, I'd have appreciated being given some kind of choice, and having him go harvest some templars, rather then just friendly firing. Who might or might not have murdered someones mother is a concern that can wait when there's a few regiments of kill-crazy zealots at our doorstep, trying to annul us.

[nelly21]

While I didn't like it entirely, I think I understand the reasoning.

Mages are not fighters. They are powerful beings, but being powerful does not automatically make you a good fighter. Templars are great fighters who are resistant to magic. When the battle starts you see a cutscene of the Templars entering the Circle. In this cutscene, the mages mostly get their butts kicked. Even so, the mages barely survive the attack. The problem is, the Templars have reinforcements coming, the mages do not.

Orisino sees how badly they are doing and realizes that it's only a matter of time until the Templars break through and Meredith wins. When that happens, he and all the other mages are going to die. He has spent over seven years of his life despising Meredith. He hates her. He hates everything she stands for. He hates everything the Templars stand for. As soon as he realizes that he's doomed, it isn't about survival or winning the battle. It's about hurting as many of the Templars as possible, More importantly, it's about hurting Meredith as much as possible. He becomes Harvester because he doesn't really care about hurting Hawke. He thinks Hawke & co. are going to die anyway. But a Harvester can kill many more Templars than plain old Orisino ever could.

Hope this helps

Modifié par nelly21, 17 mars 2011 - 05:07 .

[unspoken_demise]

I didn't feel so bad about taking him down once he referenced the killer. And by "didn't feel so bad," I mean, "I should have ended you earlier, you pr*ck!"

[Anarya]

Even if he's insane all along though, it's presented as a more sociopathic sort of brokenness and not the raving lunatic sort. His action still doesn't make sense to me as he still cares about helping the mages.

[Bann Duncan]

Lithuasil wrote...

Pileyourbodies wrote...

He basically says that he helped the lily killer do his research. Orsino was insane since act one.

How far he was involved is uncertain - either way, I'd have appreciated being given some kind of choice, and having him go harvest some templars, rather then just friendly firing. Who might or might not have murdered someones mother is a concern that can wait when there's a few regiments of kill-crazy zealots at our doorstep, trying to annul us.

I disagree. Mage Hawke and/or the mage companions more than make up for the lack of Orsino. Orsino deserved to die  - can you really excuse someone who funded your mother being cut up and made into a human doll?

[Anarya]

nelly21 wrote...

While I didn't like it entirely, I think I understand the reasoning.

Mages are not fighters. They are powerful beings, but being powerful does not automatically make you a good fighter. Templars are great fighters who are resistant to magic. When the battle starts you see a cutscene of the Templars entering the Circle. In this cutscene, the mages mostly get their butts kicked. Even so, the mages barely survive the attack. The problem is, the Templars have reinforcements coming, the mages do not.

Orisino sees how badly they are doing and realizes that it's only a matter of time until the Templars break through and Meredith wins. When that happens, he and all the other mages are going to die. He has spent over seven years of his life despising Meredith. He hates her. He hates everything she stands for. He hates everything the Templars stand for. As soon as he realizes that he's doomed, it isn't about survival or winning the battle. It's about hurting as many of the Templars as possible, More importantly, it's about hurting Meredith as much as possible. He becomes Harvester because he doesn't really care about hurting Hawke. He thinks Hawke & co. are going to die anyway. But a Harvester can kill many more Templars than plain old Orisino ever could.

Hope this helps

This would make sense IF he turned himself into the Harvester in a place where he could get at the enemy. He does not. That's where my issue lies. If he'd been a wildcard on the field attacking both sides during the last battle it would have made more sense to me.

[nelly21]

Anarya wrote...

This would make sense IF he turned himself into the Harvester in a place where he could get at the enemy. He does not. That's where my issue lies. If he'd been a wildcard on the field attacking both sides during the last battle it would have made more sense to me.

He is in a place to get at the enemy. The Templars are coming to kill them. He is literally standing in a place to get at the enemy.

When you run through the battle again, look at the entrance. There are Templar mobs there waiting to come in.  If you don't kill them, they attack your party and Harvester. Harvester kills them as well as going after your party.

Modifié par nelly21, 17 mars 2011 - 05:12 .

[Anarya]

nelly21 wrote...

Anarya wrote...

This would make sense IF he turned himself into the Harvester in a place where he could get at the enemy. He does not. That's where my issue lies. If he'd been a wildcard on the field attacking both sides during the last battle it would have made more sense to me.

He is in a place to get at the enemy. The Templars are coming to kill them. He is literally standing in a place to get at the enemy.

Except that there's a barrier there keeping them out and he's surrounded by allies that he promptly starts attacking.

[Lithuasil]

Bann Duncan wrote...



I disagree. Mage Hawke and/or the mage companions more than make up for the lack of Orsino. Orsino deserved to die  - can you really excuse someone who funded your mother being cut up and made into a human doll?

Well, excuse in the sense of not asking him about how much he knew later, and demanding a good explanation? No, of course not.
Excuse, in the sense of letting the most powerful mage in the circle do his thing, until we've established that me, my love interest, my best bud (who happen to be a bloodmage and an abomination), my sibling and everyone on my christmas card list are out of immediate harms way? YES.

In gameplay terms, it doesn't matter of course. But Hawke herself doesn't know she's remote piloted, and sucking up the "hey, what was that you were talking about just now" speech until after we're no longer about to be overrun - I can very well justify that in roleplaying terms. And I wish the game would let me do it.

[nelly21]

Anarya wrote...

nelly21 wrote...

Anarya wrote...

This would make sense IF he turned himself into the Harvester in a place where he could get at the enemy. He does not. That's where my issue lies. If he'd been a wildcard on the field attacking both sides during the last battle it would have made more sense to me.

He is in a place to get at the enemy. The Templars are coming to kill them. He is literally standing in a place to get at the enemy.

Except that there's a barrier there keeping them out and he's surrounded by allies that he promptly starts attacking.

And this barrier will last for all eternity?

[Noatz]

I agree that as a tactical decision its simply retarded.

And his connection to the killer... truthfully its not made obvious enough. I had forgotten who Quentin was at that point, I feel there should have been a bit more of a dialogue between him and Hawke here.

Hawke: Quentin? The mage who murdered Mother!?
Orsino: Yes YES *burble burble tee hee* he was right all along!
Hawke: You helped him? rraaagh **** you a-hole imma kick your ass etc

[Realmzmaster]

Orisino makes sense. As much sense as one unhinged can be. He sees this as a way to kill Templars. It would not make sense to change into the Harvester where he could get killed before making the transition. Also to stop the Templars or kill as many as possible for revenge he was willing to sacrifice his allies. Insane people's actions only have to make sense to the insane person.

[ankuu]

Bann Duncan wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Wait what? He mentions the killer? Ohhhh wait right, he does. The research...

I noticed that note in the killer's lair signed O. and thought it was fishy.

Orsino whyyy. Your model is so cool ;_;

I didn't make the connection until well after I finished, but after that I cannot think of him with anything but raw venom.

Ohhhh....OH! Okay i have totally forgot who Quentin was by the time i was facing that huge ugly harvester. :mellow:I thought it might be some crazy/smart scholar from the Circle or something.

But but...Orsino was one of the smexiest elves in Thedas...before he got 3 feet tall and started getting fleshy of course. Why Orsino?

Modifié par ankuu, 17 mars 2011 - 05:27 .

[Suron]

it's just more of BioWare's contrived ending crap. They go too far to blur either side. Ending in BOTH sides having leaders that are out of their minds. It's a forced "doubt" in your picking the "best" side.

ie just about every mage resorting to blood magic or becoming abominations. Or Meredith being a psychopathic zealot.