260 réponses à ce sujet

[Otterwarden]

Il Divo wrote...

Planescape Torment comes to mind as possibly the deepest story I've experienced in a video game.

Ditto.  Commented about it this morning so I'll cut and paste:


Was thinking last night about why "Planescape Torment" left such a
lasting impression on me, so I went over to Amazon.com to read some of
the reviews:   203 reviews (178 five stars, 15 four stars).  One person
hit it on the nail for me when they said you have to answer the age old
question  "Can you change the nature of man?"  So, fundamentally, that
game not only made me read a novel, it made me "gasp" ... think!

Just for curiosity's sake I looked up Dragon Age 2:  79 reviews ( 3/4 of which were 3 stars or less).



BTW, I don't see that sneeking in this sort of mature reasoning is multally exclusive with providing eye candy for the teeny bopper set, but I do think that the tone wheel would make it difficult.

[mesmerizedish]

Aesieru wrote...

If they'd actually taken the time to play KoTOR (which seriously at least ONE OF THEM could have played it during development of KoTOR 2) they probably would have had a more related story and possibly better.

I saw Kreia as evil, but never really your character.

I'm gald the story was relatively unrelated, because I thought KotOR1's story was pretty crap.

Kreia, Sion, and Nihilus all were three of the best villains in any game ever. So incredibly frightening.

[jds1bio]

October Sixth wrote...

If players need to experience a loss in their own lives to connect with the characters then the story and/or characters are poorly written. It's great that the game felt deep to you, but it has nothing to do with maturity.

They don't need to experience loss (nor would I want them to), all I said was that anyone who has that experience could connect with the characters.  But maturity is partly about understanding people, to be able to put yourself in someone else's shoes and feel what they feel.  It's easier to do this if you've already "been there".

[Aesieru]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

If they'd actually taken the time to play KoTOR (which seriously at least ONE OF THEM could have played it during development of KoTOR 2) they probably would have had a more related story and possibly better.

I saw Kreia as evil, but never really your character.

I'm gald the story was relatively unrelated, because I thought KotOR1's story was pretty crap.

Kreia, Sion, and Nihilus all were three of the best villains in any game ever. So incredibly frightening.

Sion wasn't that... and Nihilus had an ability he could do but honestly as a fan of the Star Wars universe probably more so than anyone on this board (I'm being serious) I can state that Traya shouldn't of been a Darth, it just minimized her impact and made her another "big bad", and that Nihilus was known off the top that he'd end up being killed off because of the style of the game ands tory.


Kreia was notable though, as was Atton.

[17thknight]

jds1bio wrote...

ronaldmonster wrote...

If you think Dragon Age 2 is "Mature" then I feel sorry for you. There are plenty of true mature games out there and Dragon Age 2 is far from being one of them.

Example?

In terms of content:
Planescape : Torment.
Shadow of the Colossus
Heavy Rain
Fear Effect


In terms of Dialogue:
Every game where "I'm Hungry" isn't a response to someone telling you they love you.
Every game where you can choose a response longer than 3 words.


In terms of gameplay:
Those without reused dungeons every 2 feet

[mesmerizedish]

Aesieru wrote...

Sion wasn't that... and Nihilus had an ability he could do but honestly as a fan of the Star Wars universe probably more so than anyone on this board (I'm being serious) I can state that Traya shouldn't of been a Darth, it just minimized her impact and made her another "big bad", and that Nihilus was known off the top that he'd end up being killed off because of the style of the game ands tory.

Different people react differently? I felt the exact opposite about Traya, and I don't care that I knew I'd kill Nihilus. I knew I'd kill Irenicus, too. How I interact with the villains has nothing to do with how good they are.

[K12aze]

IMO the real problem is that the rating system has become a joke. Much like the parental advisory sticker on CDs in the late 90s. Far too many games ramp up vulgar language and gore simply to sell games to an audience that is mostly under the recommended age to buy the game in the first place. For me as a seasoned gamer(read old) DA2 had a rich and emotional story that at 50+ hours (across multiple playthroughs) I still can't walk away from. Yeah it would be cool if you never had to see the same dungeon twice but I wouldn't of wanted to wait three more years to get the game. I will also freely admit that 10 years ago had I played this game I very well could have been "ZOMG no nudity! WTF a guy just hit on me gross! IMO in five years people will look back at DA2 and appreciate the maturity and depth the story provides

[Il Divo]

Aesieru wrote...

Sion wasn't that... and Nihilus had an ability he could do but honestly as a fan of the Star Wars universe probably more so than anyone on this board (I'm being serious) I can state that Traya shouldn't of been a Darth, it just minimized her impact and made her another "big bad", and that Nihilus was known off the top that he'd end up being killed off because of the style of the game ands tory.

Kreia was notable though, as was Atton.

I personally thought that Kreia being a Darth was integral to the story; the very purpose of her character is that she's been exiled from both factions, Jedi and Sith, which has colored her perceptions of the Force/galaxy. Had Kreia only been an exiled Jedi, it would have somewhat narrowed the experiences of her character and limited her ability to manipulate events to her advantage. In making her a veteran of Jedi and Sith teachings, she's able to educate the Exile on the limitations of both. Although, Kotor 2 didn't do all that great a job at creating a coherent ending.

On a separate note, it always bothered me that Nihilus is considered a 'Dark Lord of the Sith' while Sion/Traya are not when all formed a single triumvirate.

Modifié par Il Divo, 17 mars 2011 - 06:41 .

[jds1bio]

EccentricSage wrote...

Am I mature enough for the subject matter in this game? Yes.
Am I foolish enough to knowingly pay $60 or more for a poorly constructed and very obviously rushed product because I'm interested in the subject matter? No. 

There are books.  Books are cheaper, and my imagination is better than the art and animation in this game.  Maybe I'll get the game when it gets discounted, or maybe I'll get a re-release later that includes all DLC IF they bother to fix all the issues people are having with the gameplay and bugged dialogue.

Well, we play video games because they we get something out of them that we don't get in other creative mediums, like books.  Different topic, though.

[Duncan Anderson]

I very much agree with the OP there are many mature issues dealt with. Origins had it's share of hard decisions to make but DA2 takes that further, and makes them much more personal, I recall one reviewer talking about getting up and pacing the room as he agonised over some decisions.


In regards to the Brest issues, I find the fact that Isabella's breasts are considered unnecessarily large to be a good sign, She is above average certainly but not by any huge amount, it wasn't long ago that most fantasy characters had ridiculously large breasts.

[October Sixth]

jds1bio wrote...

October Sixth wrote...

If players need to experience a loss in their own lives to connect with the characters then the story and/or characters are poorly written. It's great that the game felt deep to you, but it has nothing to do with maturity.

They don't need to experience loss (nor would I want them to), all I said was that anyone who has that experience could connect with the characters.  But maturity is partly about understanding people, to be able to put yourself in someone else's shoes and feel what they feel.  It's easier to do this if you've already "been there".

You have to be careful that you're not projecting your own experience on to the characters due to your own loss.
Think about what really makes DA2 connect with you, is it the way that loss is handled or is it the fact that loss exists. There is an important difference. Having experienced loss yourself your threshold for empathy may be much lower than the majority of players, even if the writing is not handled well.

Put another way, do you think DA2 had a good over-arching story or that the individual scenes/dialogues were handled well?

[Aesieru]

Il Divo wrote...

Aesieru wrote...

Sion wasn't that... and Nihilus had an ability he could do but honestly as a fan of the Star Wars universe probably more so than anyone on this board (I'm being serious) I can state that Traya shouldn't of been a Darth, it just minimized her impact and made her another "big bad", and that Nihilus was known off the top that he'd end up being killed off because of the style of the game ands tory.

Kreia was notable though, as was Atton.

I personally thought that Kreia being a Darth was integral to the story; the very purpose of her character is that she's been exiled from both factions, Jedi and Sith, which has colored her perceptions of the Force/galaxy. Had Kreia only been an exiled Jedi, it would have somewhat narrowed the experiences of her character and limited her ability to manipulate events to her advantage. In making her a veteran of Jedi and Sith teachings, she's able to educate the Exile on the limitations of both.

On a separate note, it always bothered me that Nihilus is considered a 'Dark Lord of the Sith' while Sion/Traya are not when all formed a single triumvirate.

What I meant, was that at the end, going back to being a sith boss was just... counter productive to her as a character, and was a cheap ending.

BTW, I answered your question on the previous page.

[Carlsbad]

jds1bio wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

Am I mature enough for the subject matter in this game? Yes.
Am I foolish enough to knowingly pay $60 or more for a poorly constructed and very obviously rushed product because I'm interested in the subject matter? No. 

There are books.  Books are cheaper, and my imagination is better than the art and animation in this game.  Maybe I'll get the game when it gets discounted, or maybe I'll get a re-release later that includes all DLC IF they bother to fix all the issues people are having with the gameplay and bugged dialogue.

Well, we play video games because they we get something out of them that we don't get in other creative mediums, like books.  Different topic, though.

I play videogames because of the deep emotional connection to the characters!

[Il Divo]

17thknight wrote...

In terms of content:
Planescape : Torment.
Shadow of the Colossus
Heavy Rain
Fear Effect

I can testify to the craftsmanship of the first three listed. All were phenomenal examples of video games as art.

[Il Divo]

Aesieru wrote...

What I meant, was that at the end, going back to being a sith boss was just... counter productive to her as a character, and was a cheap ending.

BTW, I answered your question on the previous page.

I shall post a response shortly!

And on that, I do agree. Originally, Obsidian had this plan in making Atris a potential boss, which I thought was a phenomenal idea. Unfortunately, the ending was bastardized in comparison.

[17thknight]

Il Divo wrote...

17thknight wrote...

In terms of content:
Planescape : Torment.
Shadow of the Colossus
Heavy Rain
Fear Effect

I can testify to the craftsmanship of the first three listed. All were phenomenal examples of video games as art.

If only one of us were a woman, what lovely romance we might have

[Aesieru]

Carlsbad wrote...

jds1bio wrote...

EccentricSage wrote...

Am I mature enough for the subject matter in this game? Yes.
Am I foolish enough to knowingly pay $60 or more for a poorly constructed and very obviously rushed product because I'm interested in the subject matter? No. 

There are books.  Books are cheaper, and my imagination is better than the art and animation in this game.  Maybe I'll get the game when it gets discounted, or maybe I'll get a re-release later that includes all DLC IF they bother to fix all the issues people are having with the gameplay and bugged dialogue.

Well, we play video games because they we get something out of them that we don't get in other creative mediums, like books.  Different topic, though.

I play videogames because of the deep emotional connection to the characters!
IMG CUT

Honestly, a graphical abnormality is not an accurate way to gauge a game.

Sigh.

And I picked "I want to be a dragon', because at that point I did want to be a dragon seeing how she shaped into one, and better yet I could fly away from the Darkspawn trying to kill me, immature perhaps, perhaps not, but point is it wasn't entirely unrealistic of a statement.

[Templar_Blademaster]

17thknight wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

17thknight wrote...

In terms of content:
Planescape : Torment.
Shadow of the Colossus
Heavy Rain
Fear Effect

I can testify to the craftsmanship of the first three listed. All were phenomenal examples of video games as art.

If only one of us were a woman, what lovely romance we might have

If this were Dragon Age 2, what a lovely romance you WOULD have.

Just select the  options

[17thknight]

Templar_Blademaster wrote...

17thknight wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

17thknight wrote...

In terms of content:
Planescape : Torment.
Shadow of the Colossus
Heavy Rain
Fear Effect

I can testify to the craftsmanship of the first three listed. All were phenomenal examples of video games as art.

If only one of us were a woman, what lovely romance we might have

If this were Dragon Age 2, what a lovely romance you WOULD have.

Just select the  options

<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3<3

Imma gettin laid tonight!

[jds1bio]

K12aze wrote...

IMO the real problem is that the rating system has become a joke. Much like the parental advisory sticker on CDs in the late 90s. Far too many games ramp up vulgar language and gore simply to sell games to an audience that is mostly under the recommended age to buy the game in the first place. For me as a seasoned gamer(read old) DA2 had a rich and emotional story that at 50+ hours (across multiple playthroughs) I still can't walk away from. Yeah it would be cool if you never had to see the same dungeon twice but I wouldn't of wanted to wait three more years to get the game. I will also freely admit that 10 years ago had I played this game I very well could have been "ZOMG no nudity! WTF a guy just hit on me gross! IMO in five years people will look back at DA2 and appreciate the maturity and depth the story provides

Movies ramp up language and gore for the same reasons, and get rated similary, and oh guess what young Tommy just downloaded it on Netflix and thinks the boobs and blood are funny.  No surprises there.

Your point about waiting three years or more for the game is interesting.  What if the game had come a year from now, but it was exactly the SAME?  Or worse, what if the game came out two years later, and one of your buddies died before he got the chance to play the game, and after playing the game you realize that he would have really liked the game?  The people who write off the game as a rush-job might feel differently then.  Of course, that depends on their maturity level, which is part of the topic of this thread.

[Soilborn88]

Enchantment? 



Best part in the game.

Modifié par Soilborn88, 17 mars 2011 - 06:50 .

[Rune-Chan]

BobSmith101 wrote...

A chess board is not trying to pass itself off as a "world".

As often as I disagree with you, I do agree that this is a solid argument against the repetitive maps and so on.

17thknight wrote...
In terms of Dialogue:
Every game where "I'm Hungry" isn't a response to someone telling you they love you.
Every game where you can choose a response longer than 3 words.

It
isn't the only response, it is meant for sarcastic bastards. If you
don't want to say it you don't have to. Having humour (even if it is
somewhat childish) does not stop a game from being mature.

The
responses themselves aren't three words long, have you played the game
or are you going off of that one screenshot which showed the dialogue
you are referring to? The actual responses are as long, if not longer
than those in other RPG's.

Modifié par Machines Are Us, 17 mars 2011 - 06:55 .

[Bio Dome With Pauly Shore]

jds1bio wrote...

As for the gameplay, there have been lots of complaints over the oft-used settings where the combat takes place.  Well, consider a different game for a moment, like chess.  Do chess players complain about chess because it's the same board over and over?  Or that the opening moves are always the same ones?  Or that the chess pieces are always coming from the same place?  Or that the game doesn't allow them to plan ahead as easily as they did with the last game (checkers)?

A chess board doesn't cost 60 dollars to purchase. Christ, chess can be FREE if you have a piece of paper, a pen, and some pennies or something.

The fact is, when people spend their money on a game, they want something that doesn't feel repetitive, or boring, or make them feel like the only progress they're making is on a stat screen. I sometimes like to make my own boards of chess, to make things interesting. I even have 3D chess (a.k.a that weird chess board from Star Trek that nobody besides a few people know how to use), and they all make the game slightly interesting.

With DA2, the story is pretty interesting, and the battles are faster, but it yields to many different consolized tendencies; there's blood everywhere, the game repeats areas ad nauseam, and the actual dialogue (note, not the story) is sometimes very lackluster. Overall, it boils down to this; what mindset will you be in in order to enjoy the game? Overall, DA2 is okay, but it definitely feels like Bioware could have done a LOT more, with both the PC and 360 versions. Hopefully DA3 will fix some of these issues, most notably the combat system (for me, at least, I can't speak for everyone on here).

[Gavinthelocust]

If the gameplay wasn't so damn flashy this would probably be one of the more dark and thought provoking games I've played in a while, not sure I'd call any game mature but it would count. I still love the game, it's just that when I'm doing judo flips in the battlefield and turning people into bacon bits I get a bit too lost in the action and forget the depressing atmosphere.

[Aesieru]

jds1bio wrote...

K12aze wrote...

IMO the real problem is that the rating system has become a joke. Much like the parental advisory sticker on CDs in the late 90s. Far too many games ramp up vulgar language and gore simply to sell games to an audience that is mostly under the recommended age to buy the game in the first place. For me as a seasoned gamer(read old) DA2 had a rich and emotional story that at 50+ hours (across multiple playthroughs) I still can't walk away from. Yeah it would be cool if you never had to see the same dungeon twice but I wouldn't of wanted to wait three more years to get the game. I will also freely admit that 10 years ago had I played this game I very well could have been "ZOMG no nudity! WTF a guy just hit on me gross! IMO in five years people will look back at DA2 and appreciate the maturity and depth the story provides

Movies ramp up language and gore for the same reasons, and get rated similary, and oh guess what young Tommy just downloaded it on Netflix and thinks the boobs and blood are funny.  No surprises there.

Your point about waiting three years or more for the game is interesting.  What if the game had come a year from now, but it was exactly the SAME?  Or worse, what if the game came out two years later, and one of your buddies died before he got the chance to play the game, and after playing the game you realize that he would have really liked the game?  The people who write off the game as a rush-job might feel differently then.  Of course, that depends on their maturity level, which is part of the topic of this thread.

Quality over quantity, that's my statement.