Ah well I never sided with templars that is weird you get the same ending.
but still I like the game.
How could anyone not love this game?
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Gamer Ftw
, mars 17 2011 05:38
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#27
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:24
Andros_Hanarak
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I'm beginning to suspect we will get the full story through DLC, which is a shame. But that's the vibe I got from the game ending. I was hoping to become Viscount and do more quests myself as a person in power in Kirkwall.
#28
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:28
lockdown51
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I have to agree with Deylar in saying this DA2 is an expansion not a sequel.
And your actions have no weight to them at all. If you want proof of what real consequences of actions are look at the finale of DAO. You choose who takes over the throne of a kingdom. You choose whether a Circle of Mages gets annulled or not. You choose whether or not the werewolves get cured or not. You choose who kills the Arch Demon. You play kingmaker again with the dwarves. You choose to let them rediscover or deny them the power of GOLEMS!
All of that has very real, far reaching consequences from the VANILLA game. In DAA you choose whether or not to set up an alliance with the speaking darkspawn, and whether to sacrifice a major city or the Grey Warden's new stronghold. Again, far reaching and impacting consequences.
DA2 is really summed up in what Statulos said "You have the ilusion(sic) of influence, not real influence." If you really had influence, and half a brain, you would have taken over Kirkwall after the whole Qunari business. Everyone wanted you too but instead you get the lame title of Champion.
And even as champion you are still the lowly errand boy/girl going everyone's work for them since they are all totally incapable.
Furthermore, you can either side with the templar and restore order and be made into a boogyman for mages OR support the mages and be made into a boogyman for templar. Either way the mage revolt happens. It would have happened even if you died in Lothering since Anders clearly survived the Blight and DAA (even if you hated him the and had him die) and would have blown up the Chantry committing mass murder.
Therefore you have no say in how things play out even though you should be a powerful political figure by year 7. And if not a powerful political figure you can clearly kick ass and could have very well taken over the city by force. After all you have the captain of the guard in your pocket potentially.
Finally Anders sparked a revolution over a cat. He wasn't allowed a cat in the Circle so he runs away. The Warden makes him give the cat away which then makes Anders run from the Grey Wardens. Where this makes the leap to insanity is the fact that all game the lore tells you the Fade is bad and possession can only be cured with a beheading. Guess who is fully possessed? Anders. Whose feeling of injustice over a cat sparks off a revolution that will kill hundreds of thousands. That is one of the most insane plots I have ever heard of in my life.
And your actions have no weight to them at all. If you want proof of what real consequences of actions are look at the finale of DAO. You choose who takes over the throne of a kingdom. You choose whether a Circle of Mages gets annulled or not. You choose whether or not the werewolves get cured or not. You choose who kills the Arch Demon. You play kingmaker again with the dwarves. You choose to let them rediscover or deny them the power of GOLEMS!
All of that has very real, far reaching consequences from the VANILLA game. In DAA you choose whether or not to set up an alliance with the speaking darkspawn, and whether to sacrifice a major city or the Grey Warden's new stronghold. Again, far reaching and impacting consequences.
DA2 is really summed up in what Statulos said "You have the ilusion(sic) of influence, not real influence." If you really had influence, and half a brain, you would have taken over Kirkwall after the whole Qunari business. Everyone wanted you too but instead you get the lame title of Champion.
And even as champion you are still the lowly errand boy/girl going everyone's work for them since they are all totally incapable.
Furthermore, you can either side with the templar and restore order and be made into a boogyman for mages OR support the mages and be made into a boogyman for templar. Either way the mage revolt happens. It would have happened even if you died in Lothering since Anders clearly survived the Blight and DAA (even if you hated him the and had him die) and would have blown up the Chantry committing mass murder.
Therefore you have no say in how things play out even though you should be a powerful political figure by year 7. And if not a powerful political figure you can clearly kick ass and could have very well taken over the city by force. After all you have the captain of the guard in your pocket potentially.
Finally Anders sparked a revolution over a cat. He wasn't allowed a cat in the Circle so he runs away. The Warden makes him give the cat away which then makes Anders run from the Grey Wardens. Where this makes the leap to insanity is the fact that all game the lore tells you the Fade is bad and possession can only be cured with a beheading. Guess who is fully possessed? Anders. Whose feeling of injustice over a cat sparks off a revolution that will kill hundreds of thousands. That is one of the most insane plots I have ever heard of in my life.
#29
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:32
MelfinaofOutlawStar
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I enjoyed the game but I feel this was more a teaser trailer than an actual game. I have a feeling the third game will be the real thing.
Just wish they didn't charge us $60 for a teaser trailer.
Just wish they didn't charge us $60 for a teaser trailer.
#30
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:33
Gamer Ftw
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No he started a revolution because he was tired of kids being kidnapped from their mother and abused in a tower. it is in his dialogue.
#31
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:41
Statulos
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Gamer Ftw wrote...
No he started a revolution because he was tired of kids being kidnapped from their mother and abused in a tower. it is in his dialogue.
Seems like some people do not understand the difference between rebellion and revolution. Revolution means radically changing something for something different. In DA 2 we have no idea what Anders wants except for an ethereal freedom.
#32
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:42
Rasputin
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I liked the game. I also agree with those frustrated at the lack of consequences to your choices.
#33
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:43
lockdown51
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It might be in his dialogue but you also have to look at all the back story in the beginning when you first meet him. He wanted to keep a cat. Also I put it to you and Anders and anyone else. Your kid has the uncontrolled ability to blow up a city block with his mind. Wouldn't you want him to learn to control that power? What's the alternative? Let him become possessed?
The other issue is that fact that the Templar are religious fanatics. That's a whole different mess showing just how bad religion itself can be. If you do something in the name of any diety, where do you stop? You do realize that Andraste didn't like mages because she had bad experiences with it when she was young which meant when the religion was formed it repressed magic hard due to someone's bad memories. Sheer insanity.
I agree that changes had to be made but not like that. Revolution rarely works and even when it does, the outcome is often vastly different than was hoped for. IE The US fighting England. The rebellion was for a say in parliament that ended up founding a country.
Point being, the whole thing feels very forced on you and makes little sense.
The other issue is that fact that the Templar are religious fanatics. That's a whole different mess showing just how bad religion itself can be. If you do something in the name of any diety, where do you stop? You do realize that Andraste didn't like mages because she had bad experiences with it when she was young which meant when the religion was formed it repressed magic hard due to someone's bad memories. Sheer insanity.
I agree that changes had to be made but not like that. Revolution rarely works and even when it does, the outcome is often vastly different than was hoped for. IE The US fighting England. The rebellion was for a say in parliament that ended up founding a country.
Point being, the whole thing feels very forced on you and makes little sense.
#34
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:45
Gamer Ftw
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But Anders is not the only one who revolted I believe the world will be radically changed for something different.
Btw condescending much?
Btw condescending much?
#35
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:45
highcastle
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I'm that rare breed who likes DA2 better than Origins. And I love Origins, don't get me wrong. But Origins is also much more stereotypical in ways. You're fighting an ancient evil with no real characterization. There's no way to reason with the Archdemon. There's no interacting with it beyond a few blurry dreams. Loghain's an interesting enemy, but he's not the main villain. He's just an obstacle in your path.
DA2, on the other hand, presents us a world that is consciously without heroes and villains. Neither Meredith nor Orsino are wholly good or wholly evil. Even the Arishok had his justifications. This makes the story more compelling to me, because the characters have depth and levels instead of just being flat archetypes.
I know there's a lot of people complaining about a lack of choice. I personally don't see it that way. I see DA2 as a great tragedy. Hawke is not the hero, he's at the center of a storm. What he does--no matter what he does--has an impact. Folks are upset it's not the impact they wanted to have. Well...not every time you try to change the world is it going to work out like you thought. You can make a difference in the little things. I like how the characters you help, kill, or capture matter to your companions and to those NPCs themselves. You can make a difference in their individual lives, but at the end of the day, the world's still getting screwed up. I'm OK with this. Actually, I'm great with it. Not every story has to have a happy ending. Not every game needs to end with success.
Hawke is defined in many ways by what he fails to accomplish. For a game that's about the world going to hell, I think this works quite well. But it's also a risk. I know there are people who don't want to feel uncomfortable or ineffectual or weak. But it's such a nice change from what we usually get in games, I love it. I really do. I love that there's no clearly right or wrong choice. I've said before I thought Origins would've been better if some of the "third options" (like the Redcliffe quest) had been removed, forcing you to choose between two unpleasant possibilities. That's what DA2 did. It gave us uncomfortable choice after uncomfortable choice. It made me think. It made me feel terrible. And that's evidence of great writing right there.
I really hope BioWare doesn't back down because of some of the criticism it's been getting. For me, DA2 was the most emotionally engaging game I've played in the last ten years.
DA2, on the other hand, presents us a world that is consciously without heroes and villains. Neither Meredith nor Orsino are wholly good or wholly evil. Even the Arishok had his justifications. This makes the story more compelling to me, because the characters have depth and levels instead of just being flat archetypes.
I know there's a lot of people complaining about a lack of choice. I personally don't see it that way. I see DA2 as a great tragedy. Hawke is not the hero, he's at the center of a storm. What he does--no matter what he does--has an impact. Folks are upset it's not the impact they wanted to have. Well...not every time you try to change the world is it going to work out like you thought. You can make a difference in the little things. I like how the characters you help, kill, or capture matter to your companions and to those NPCs themselves. You can make a difference in their individual lives, but at the end of the day, the world's still getting screwed up. I'm OK with this. Actually, I'm great with it. Not every story has to have a happy ending. Not every game needs to end with success.
Hawke is defined in many ways by what he fails to accomplish. For a game that's about the world going to hell, I think this works quite well. But it's also a risk. I know there are people who don't want to feel uncomfortable or ineffectual or weak. But it's such a nice change from what we usually get in games, I love it. I really do. I love that there's no clearly right or wrong choice. I've said before I thought Origins would've been better if some of the "third options" (like the Redcliffe quest) had been removed, forcing you to choose between two unpleasant possibilities. That's what DA2 did. It gave us uncomfortable choice after uncomfortable choice. It made me think. It made me feel terrible. And that's evidence of great writing right there.
I really hope BioWare doesn't back down because of some of the criticism it's been getting. For me, DA2 was the most emotionally engaging game I've played in the last ten years.
#36
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:46
dreman9999
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Well, for one, you were the diciding factor of the fight. Plus, It was Anders fault the war started.Halo Quea wrote...
How you ask?
Because after all the running around in Kirkwall that Hawke does, you don't honestly feel like you've really had a real impact on events. The Mages and the Templars didn't need you to achieve the ending in DA2. They were always going to go insane and kill each other.
All the lives you saved? Defeating the Qunari? All of the interventions and tragedies (Leandra) really didn't matter. Kirkwall was always going to fall and you weren't allowed to keep it from happening.
Why didn't Hawke just seize the Viscount's position after defeating the Qunari? Instead after becoming Champion he continues to act like everyone's errand boy while the crisis balloons out of control. Being Champion was just an empty title.
#37
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:47
Deylar
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lockdown51 wrote...
I have to agree with Deylar in saying this DA2 is an expansion not a sequel.
And your actions have no weight to them at all. If you want proof of what real consequences of actions are look at the finale of DAO. You choose who takes over the throne of a kingdom. You choose whether a Circle of Mages gets annulled or not. You choose whether or not the werewolves get cured or not. You choose who kills the Arch Demon. You play kingmaker again with the dwarves. You choose to let them rediscover or deny them the power of GOLEMS!
All of that has very real, far reaching consequences from the VANILLA game. In DAA you choose whether or not to set up an alliance with the speaking darkspawn, and whether to sacrifice a major city or the Grey Warden's new stronghold. Again, far reaching and impacting consequences.
DA2 is really summed up in what Statulos said "You have the ilusion(sic) of influence, not real influence." If you really had influence, and half a brain, you would have taken over Kirkwall after the whole Qunari business. Everyone wanted you too but instead you get the lame title of Champion.
And even as champion you are still the lowly errand boy/girl going everyone's work for them since they are all totally incapable.
Furthermore, you can either side with the templar and restore order and be made into a boogyman for mages OR support the mages and be made into a boogyman for templar. Either way the mage revolt happens. It would have happened even if you died in Lothering since Anders clearly survived the Blight and DAA (even if you hated him the and had him die) and would have blown up the Chantry committing mass murder.
Therefore you have no say in how things play out even though you should be a powerful political figure by year 7. And if not a powerful political figure you can clearly kick ass and could have very well taken over the city by force. After all you have the captain of the guard in your pocket potentially.
Finally Anders sparked a revolution over a cat. He wasn't allowed a cat in the Circle so he runs away. The Warden makes him give the cat away which then makes Anders run from the Grey Wardens. Where this makes the leap to insanity is the fact that all game the lore tells you the Fade is bad and possession can only be cured with a beheading. Guess who is fully possessed? Anders. Whose feeling of injustice over a cat sparks off a revolution that will kill hundreds of thousands. That is one of the most insane plots I have ever heard of in my life.
lockdown51 wrote...
It might be in his dialogue but you also have to look at all the back story in the beginning when you first meet him. He wanted to keep a cat. Also I put it to you and Anders and anyone else. Your kid has the uncontrolled ability to blow up a city block with his mind. Wouldn't you want him to learn to control that power? What's the alternative? Let him become possessed?
The other issue is that fact that the Templar are religious fanatics. That's a whole different mess showing just how bad religion itself can be. If you do something in the name of any diety, where do you stop? You do realize that Andraste didn't like mages because she had bad experiences with it when she was young which meant when the religion was formed it repressed magic hard due to someone's bad memories. Sheer insanity.
I agree that changes had to be made but not like that. Revolution rarely works and even when it does, the outcome is often vastly different than was hoped for. IE The US fighting England. The rebellion was for a say in parliament that ended up founding a country.
Point being, the whole thing feels very forced on you and makes little sense.
Freakin exactly.
You make sense dude. This is what I have been saying this whole entire time.
#38
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:49
Gamer Ftw
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Yes of course he should learn to control his power.
but why be locked in a tower with no real purpose to your life?
magic is meant to serve man but it isn't serving anyone because the chantry is locking it away.
I would like to see mages living normal lives but getting instruction in controlling their power.
Like an academy?
They can still have blood magic be against the law and punishable.
but why be locked in a tower with no real purpose to your life?
magic is meant to serve man but it isn't serving anyone because the chantry is locking it away.
I would like to see mages living normal lives but getting instruction in controlling their power.
Like an academy?
They can still have blood magic be against the law and punishable.
#39
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:51
LilyDelyrium
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Andros_Hanarak wrote...
I'm beginning to suspect we will get the full story through DLC, which is a shame. But that's the vibe I got from the game ending. I was hoping to become Viscount and do more quests myself as a person in power in Kirkwall.
Yeap my thoughts exactly and if confirmed it will be a mix of joy and anger for me...
#40
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:55
Statulos
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Gamer Ftw wrote...
Yes of course he should learn to control his power.
but why be locked in a tower with no real purpose to your life?
magic is meant to serve man but it isn't serving anyone because the chantry is locking it away.
I would like to see mages living normal lives but getting instruction in controlling their power.
Like an academy?
They can still have blood magic be against the law and punishable.
All that comes from you, nor from Anders or anyone else. They want the templars out but what then? Everytone turning to abominations and blood magic like 99% of the mages?
Because the other option is Tevinter. They don´t have the same laws with magic and they seem to keep abominations and the nasty effects of magic at bay. However, Anders or anyone else clearly says that they want a Tevinter-like society.
#41
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 07:55
lockdown51
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Man blows up chantry to express how he feels his people are being oppressed. Man flies plan into building to express how he feels his people are being oppressed. Both men are terrorists no matter their reasoning. In both cases there is nothing you can do about it and have to live with the consequences of each event.
Highcastle, I think you will find that most people did enjoy the game. The only problem is that most people feel that DAO was better mainly due to DA2 feeling rushed to them.
As a tragedy, DA2 is epic. My sister and I were crushed when we couldn't save Leandra and as such felt compelled to side with the mages just to ensure that Bethany lived. Unfortunately it wasn't marketed as a tragedy, it was marketed as a rise to power with far reaching implications. A lot of people are disappointed that you really don't get to exercise that power. And I think a lot of people didn't like the third option being taken away like you have in DAO.
Highcastle, I think you will find that most people did enjoy the game. The only problem is that most people feel that DAO was better mainly due to DA2 feeling rushed to them.
As a tragedy, DA2 is epic. My sister and I were crushed when we couldn't save Leandra and as such felt compelled to side with the mages just to ensure that Bethany lived. Unfortunately it wasn't marketed as a tragedy, it was marketed as a rise to power with far reaching implications. A lot of people are disappointed that you really don't get to exercise that power. And I think a lot of people didn't like the third option being taken away like you have in DAO.
#42
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:00
Gamer Ftw
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I just said I wanted there to be laws about the magic.
When did anders say he wanted a tevinter like society?
All I heard him say was I don't want children to be taken and locked in a tower.
I want to live a free life like everyone else.
When did anders say he wanted a tevinter like society?
All I heard him say was I don't want children to be taken and locked in a tower.
I want to live a free life like everyone else.
#43
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:02
Gamer Ftw
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Leandra was a pretty emotionally abusive I couldn't feel that bad for her.
#44
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:03
Statulos
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Gamer Ftw wrote...
I just said I wanted there to be laws about the magic.
When did anders say he wanted a tevinter like society?
All I heard him say was I don't want children to be taken and locked in a tower.
I want to live a free life like everyone else.
Then he simply has no real plan on how to deal with the dangers of magic. The circles are not the solution, nor is Tevinter or the Qunari approach so then, what is the answer?
#45
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:05
Gamer Ftw
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Making mages members of society who are subject to fair law like anyone else.
#46
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:14
Statulos
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Once again that is YOUR answer, not the mages answer since there is none in the game.Gamer Ftw wrote...
Making mages members of society who are subject to fair law like anyone else.
#47
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:16
Gamer Ftw
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Well true but locking them away isn't an answer cause they get pissed and blow up chantries. 
#48
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:17
lockdown51
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Mages are members of society. Just second class members because there is a very clear and documented history of mages being very susceptible to demonic possession and/or abuse of magical power. Just look at Tevinter. There mages are free and they used their power to literally rule over all the land until relatively recent times historically speaking. Also, mages were the ones that brought about the darkspawn and the Blights. It hard to forgive mages for Blights.
Also keep in mind this is a medival society setting. EQUAL doesn't exist. Not in the same sense as we think of it today.
Also keep in mind this is a medival society setting. EQUAL doesn't exist. Not in the same sense as we think of it today.
#49
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:24
Gamer Ftw
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They are set apart from society in direct defiance of andrastes word.
#50
Posté 17 mars 2011 - 08:32
highcastle
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Gamer Ftw wrote...
Leandra was a pretty emotionally abusive I couldn't feel that bad for her.
How so? She made one comment after the death of her child that you should've saved them. She apologizes later and it's clear everything she said was in grief. Have you never said something in the heat of an emotional moment that you regretted? To quote Sten, "Either you have an enviable life or a piteable memory to know nothing of regret."
