83 ответов в этой теме

[dragonflight288]

I love the story, I love the characters, I love the music. I actually sometimes go back and play it on my xbox 360 just to relive it.

[Nilfalasiel]

I actually played JE for the first time not too long ago. Overall, I thought it was a good game: the storyline was original, the setting was beautiful, the characters were interesting, and the combat was something new. All in all, I thoroughly enjoyed it, but there were a few problems that, for me, made it feel less...finished than other BW games.

1) The game is almost criminally short. I finished the entire thing (sidequests included) in a little over 30 hours. Surely, they must have had more to do with a fantasy world based on Medieval China? More cities than just two to visit? I mean, what was the Dragonfly even for, besides Kang's missions? There was no reason to go back to Tien's Landing and literally nowhere else to go once you got to the Capital. I really felt shortchanged on exploration, especially since the atmosphere and the setting left me wanting more.

2) There's little point to the companions. I spent 99% of my game with either Dawn Star or Sky in support mode. And the latter only made it in because I didn't like Dawn Star, and therefore forced myself to use Crimson Tears and max out my Chi so that it didn't need upkeep. Otherwise, I might've been stuck with Dawn Star throughout the whole thing, given that Stone Immortal was my preferred overall style. This is a shame, considering I liked most of the characters: having them reduced to standing around camp or kneeling in the bushes while my character went off on a solo asskicking spree felt a little...unbalanced. Sure, I get that the Spirit Monk is more powerful than the others, but the contrast was a tad too pronounced. Equipping or otherwise enhancing companions (besides Whirlwind's last-minute axe upgrade...) would've been a welcome addition, at least.

3) This is more of a nitpick, but I did find it jarring: if you're going to implement a dialect, can't you at least try to vary the soundfiles? It's hard to maintain credibility when you hear the exact same lines over and over again, and yet the characters are supposed to be saying different things. I actually found that a bit insulting. Sort of like "oh yeah, ancient Asian dialect...same as gibberish, really, who's gonna notice?"

The fact that the rest of the game was so promising only made these issues stand out all the more.

[pecoes]

I've been wondering about 3) as well. Here are the three explanations I find most plausible:

1) There is someone with a PhD in linguistics on Bioware's board of directors and he demands at least one character with a made-up language in each game. He's got some clout so there's several characters.

2) They record the funny language as a wildcard just in case they end up adding new characteres after the sound recording is already done. The law of unintended consequences dictates they *will* end up using the funny voices after all.

3) Someone at EA thought this was a great way to cut corners and save money not only on American voice actors but also on i18n.

Take your pick

[abramburici]

Couple of reasons:

1) Money. For a long time JE has had a bad reputation with regards to sales. I haven't seen any actual figures to support this, only statements made by business analyst wannabes and "game critics", but sometimes rumors are more powerful than the naked truth.

2) Setting. The very same elements that made the story addictive for us, the fans, might have turned many others away. The ancient oriental setting, with its folklore and legends might be too unfamiliar, uncool and old fashioned to some.
I also believe martial arts (particularly close range, unarmed combat) are not considered as cool and mainstream as they were once. After all, the youngest gamers today are the children of the first generation of "Star Wars" and "Alien" series fans. Who needs golden staff or paralyzing palm when you can swing your light saber? Why bother with Chai Ka, when you can kill robotic monsters?
3) Arsenal/customization. In the words of one game reviewer (cannot remember which), the journey in JE is not about finding the most lethal weapon, but about becoming one yourself. Truer words were never spoken, but obviously a lot of gamers failed to realize this, or even refused to accept it.
Also some gamers seem to think that having an endless arsenal of weapons, armor, and outfits somehow makes the gaming experience richer, even though the only real outcome is the gamer spending a ludicrous amount of time equipping and unequipping items.
4) Depth/length/plot. Some valid criticism here that even I cannot entirely dismiss.
5) Real time combat. Yeah, what's wrong with that? Jeez, if you want strategy, look for other titles (ever heard of Shogun?). If you want real strategy, try a game of chess.
6) No multiplayer. Yeah... last thing I want is a thousand Furious Mings bouncing about the Great Southern Forest, shouting insults at one another or screaming about trying to find quest partners. If I want socializing, I go to one of the local pubs... but that's just me.
7) Last but not least, herd mentality. Heck, why not thrashing a game if you pals do it, even if you never actually played the game yourself?

Сообщение изменено: abramburici, 04 Сентябрь 2011 - 10:08 .

[Wozearly]

agewisdom wrote...

Well, I think the main reason why people trash Jade Empire mainly boils down to:

1. Action RPG vs. AD&D RPG
Jade Empire's battle system is fast and responsive but it's not turn-based. So it plays a lot more like Diablo 2. Obviously, the removal of the standard inventory items pushes it along the road of ARPG. For those used to BG2 or DAO, this is obviously a step back. Furthermore, it was designed for the console from the start just like DA2 which makes the controls slightly awkward for the PC.

2. Chinese Setting
Whilst I loved this as I'm Chinese, I guess there's a disconnect for Western/European gamers when playing in this setting. This is pretty normal. That's why most Western gamers would prefer a Total War in a Roman setting as compared to say Japan or China. We tend to like what we're most familiar with.

Ironic to quote Total War, given that the series began, and recently returned, to feudal Japan.

I think its reasonable to spot why the largish 'core' of Bioware players were divided on JE just as they were on DA2. Its a different style of game - yes, it has Bioware's typically excellent characterisation and a well-thought through game world, but it plays nothing like the main bulk of Bioware titles.

I don't want to go down Lumikki's route of generalising 'old-style' RPG players because I'm one of them, and also a FPS fan and was a rather dab hand at Street Fighter 2 back in the day. I think a lot of us can handle 'action' RPGs...but not everyone prefers that to the KOTOR / DA:O style where combat success isn't dictated by your speed of reactions.

I actually like JE - even though it was my least favourite Bioware RPG until DA2 claimed that ignominious perch by a mile. No complaints about the setting, or it being different, or there being more action...but just too many little things that irked me. Companions that might as well have not bothered turning up to fights, having to dance around like a fairy all the freaking time because block is distinctly ropey (unless inconvenient barriers magically appear to stop you), the rock-paper-scissors approach to styles punishing you hard at earlier levels, the overwhelmingly lengthy conversations in places (I usually love the large amounts of dialogue, but JE took it a step too far with some characters)...

Ultimately what brought it down was a) releasing to a limited market and failing to generate the viral hype either via reviews or gamers talking that draws large numbers. However, you can see some of the influence of Jade Empire in DA2...again, not a source of universal approval over on the DA2 forums.

[Mr Arg]

additionally, people are now getting it off of Steam, which is apparently riddled with bugs and glitches. xbox version is ok though...

[Sidney]

pecoes wrote...

I think, I agree with Lumikki here. RPG lovers come for the story, the characters and the atmosphere. They may find Jade Empire's combat a little too hectic and not strategic enough. While those who like combat games probably find the combat system a little wonky and all the dialog and all the cutscenes get in their way. Of course, there are people who like the story, the characters, the atmosphere *and* the combat. I should know. There are just not that many of us. And to be perfectly honest: That's not necessarily a bad thing.

To me the combat was very thinking oriented. Unlike BG2 or DAO I coulnd't just auto-attack my way through battles and how to mix and match combat style to get combos was one of the best parts of the game. I'd quibble with the weay they dribbled those powers in so some were less useful than others because you couldn't get them upgraded. Still, I know when the game was being done I pictured a Mortal Kombat type system with great dread of having to do back,back,high punch, low kick combos and I'm sure some people never got past that hurdle.

Like ME2 I appreciate the fairly clean apporach to the game - focus on story, character development and combat and not spend a ton of time with inventory management and a slew of ring +1 type junk.

[OBakaSama]

Depends from where, and from who, the criticism came from. I would half suspect it was made by the particularly entrenched in their ways type who would only accept RPGs a certain way. JE was released for the XBox and then later for the PC (like Mass Effect after it); and it was certainly more an action RPG.

The combat though...I have certain reservations about it as much as I fondly remember the game. Even on it's hardest setting on the XBox it was still too easy. There was a default combo you could use that would beat anyone. So effective was it that it made the combat trivial. True, I could not use it; however, the combo only serves to highlight just how powerful my character was in combat. Take that!

[Cimeas]

I think JE could do a lot better than dragon age- The real-time action combat, especially if the style switching was improved could be a real selling point, as could the choices and characters/world as in other RPGs.

Just imagine using a martial art, spinning, kicking, rolling, then doing a leap and in the middle of that leap fusing into a Jade Golem and charging at the enemy. Awesome.

[cindercatz]

I'm not a fan of DA2, less so as time goes on, but I love Jade Empire. I think it just comes down, for me, to Jade Empire knowing what it wants to be and executing extremely smoothely, and DA2.. not doing those things, and also because of the ill comparison of DA2 to DA:O.

As for people deriding JE, some people just don't like action games. JE, to me, is probably the best action game ever made. I came to it off of KoTOR and KoTOR 2, and I noticed the lack of customization for the most part, etc., but I loved it for what it was.

I think another thing might be that people probably miss a lot of the character interaction that's there, because you have to go back to base camp over and over to see it, like KoTOR 2, and that was entirely skippable if you just walked around town completing one objective or sidequest after another.

Also, the games share a lead designer, and his hybridizing the franchises basic formulas may have contributed to how DA2 turned out. That's a possibility, and a reason to throw slings and arrows at JE, I suspect. Not that I agree.. Jade Empire is a great game and deserves its own place.

The language thing is a bit of an oversight, I think. They had just done KoTOR, and coming off that success, they just basically treated them exactly as they did alien languages in KoTOR. Somebody figured it was a formula that worked and repeated it.

As for sales, everybody seemed to expect them to match KoTOR's sales, but KoTOR was the first BioWare game I played that I really noticed the developer at all, and for a lot of people, that was just the greatest Star Wars game. There wasn't a track record of BioWare games in a lot of people's minds. KoTOR gained an audience largely based on its license and strong reviews, but a lot of people may simply have not figured out at that point that there was this company called BioWare that made that particular style of game. So Jade Empire suffered for inflated expectations.

Personally, I hope Dragon Age gets back on track after DA2's mostly train wreck (IMO), and I'll be very excited for Jade Empire 2, someday I hope.

[Gulaman]

I think Bioware dropped kotor 2 in favour of JE which is why maybe some kotor fanatics don't like JE. I liked Jade Empire, it was set in a fascinating world with some interesting characters. It's a shame Bioware didn't follow up with some expansion packs/DLC to the game.

[Jafroboy]

I think JE was a much better game than DA:O. It had a Novel setting, which DA completely lacked, and fun combat, which DA definitely didnt.

[ScotGaymer]

Yeh I was pretty astonished to learn that people hated Jade Empire myself.

When the whole bruhahaha about DA2 erupted and people were like "its worse than Jade Empire and thats saying something!"; I was like "lolwut?"

To me Jade Empire is probably the Bioware game I had the most fun playing after Knights of the Old Republic; I totally loved it.
Actually loved it so much that i have every single version of Jade Empire released.

I got the limited edition for Xbox, the normal edition for Xbox, and the Special Edition for PC when it came out. I loved Jade Empire that much I was happy to pay for it 3 times to play it again and again and again for extra content and whatnot in the various versions.

It sounds insane I know.

In fact when I think about it JE is my favourite BW game.

I love every aspect of it.

To the person that said that it maybe sufferred a backlash because people were expecting KotOR 3; its possible but I am not sure. Star Wars draws from Eastern Legend almost as much as Jade Empire does.

[Dashen Thomas]

As much as I love the game and setting I have to say that after KotOR, this game felt overly simplified. Too linear and lacking customization. In terms of gameplay, KotOR beat it pretty much in every area, except perhaps the combat. You could say that JE started this unfortunate "stream lining" trend that has continued up to present day.

Having said that, I still love the game and it's unique setting, music and visuals.It's the strongest unique IP Bioware has and deserves gameplay/RPG mechanics just as strong.

Сообщение изменено: Dashen Thomas, 06 Октябрь 2011 - 02:40 .

[BBK4114]

Let me start by saying I love DA:O, KotOR, ME1, ME2, and have pre-ordered ME3.  I'm even thinking of trying to get the BG's & NWN's to work on my newish computer- which is kinda hard to do from what I understand!  

For me the common denominator of all of these (fingers-crossed that it will hold true in ME3) is story, character development and choice.  I enjoyed DA2, but the flaws and lack of a solid storyline really derailed that enjoyment for me.  Gameplay (ie. TPS, FPS, or Pause & Direct) has little impact on me unless it's so clunky or complicated that its distracting. 

I am about 1/2 way through JE and am absolutely loving it so far!   

It, too, has a great, epic, story.  I think that is key: epic story.  You are the Hero or the Villian. You have to save the world or destroy it.  Your choices make an impact on the ending.

This may be over-simplification, but I think that is the starting point to what makes these titles BIOWARE games and DA2 a BiowEA game. Mechanics and inventory and classic rpg crafting & looting are squat without a great story.  The only title that fell short for me so far is DA2.   The whole plot-or really lack there of- was seriously flawed. 

[agrael92]

I playied Jade empire now october 2011 for the first time and i found it absolutley amazing. I'm really sad now that the journey in that magic east is finished. A sadness that I've experienced with no many games. I found it much more interesting and beautiful than Kotor in all its aspects, story character atmosphere and combat system. After mass effect 3 i would like way more another jade empire instead of another mass effect or another dragon age.Hoping that they mantain the same combat system (i loved it) and make it even more complex, and harder to master.There must be an "impossible" difficulty. Each fight must be extremely tough so that you feel to have won a real martial combat. I playied not using the gems in my first playthrought and each fight was satysfing. I want another jade empire !

[Heimdall]

agewisdom wrote...

Well, I think the main reason why people trash Jade Empire mainly boils down to:

1. Action RPG vs. AD&D RPG
Jade Empire's battle system is fast and responsive but it's not turn-based. So it plays a lot more like Diablo 2. Obviously, the removal of the standard inventory items pushes it along the road of ARPG. For those used to BG2 or DAO, this is obviously a step back. Furthermore, it was designed for the console from the start just like DA2 which makes the controls slightly awkward for the PC.

2. Chinese Setting
Whilst I loved this as I'm Chinese, I guess there's a disconnect for Western/European gamers when playing in this setting. This is pretty normal. That's why most Western gamers would prefer a Total War in a Roman setting as compared to say Japan or China. We tend to like what we're most familiar with.

Having said that, I really loved Jade Empire. Hope they'll revisit the franchise again someday. Like KOTOR, choosing the Evil option was quite shocking esp. the reaction from the Water Dragon. Some of the quests were pretty cool as well... too bad the ending was a bit rushed.

Agreed on the first point, not as much on the second.  As someone of European descent, I thought JE was a breath of fresh air in a genre clogged to the gills with western RPG settings.

Anyway, I literally played JE for the first time two weeks ago.  Loved it to death.   My main complaint being that it was bloody short.

Сообщение изменено: Lord Aesir, 27 Октябрь 2011 - 02:15 .

[Skypezee]

I get a little baffled whenever people say that Jade Empire sucked or even DA2 sucked because in all honesty I had fun with both of those games. Yes they do have their flaws but never the less I had fun playing those games.

If anything my biggest gripe with Jade Empire was that it was short. But overall I liked the setting, the story, the characters, and I especially loved the art design and music. It really set the mood and made exploring and interacting with NPCs fun. To me it was something different in terms of western RPGs and I was very satisfied with it.

[Arkwright99]

Playing JE for the first time, having bought a (cheap) PC copy this last weekend, I found the similarities with DA2 to be very apparent. In fact, I think had I played JE first, before DA2, I would have found the newer game's style less jarring after DAO, which had more in common with BG/NWN. Combat in JE does feel slightly like more of a button-mashing affair than in DA2 but the two styles are very similar. After the free-form interface of DAO I find JE's interface more restrictive (no mobile camera, Combat Pause really does pause the entire game, etc.) although not having to worry about inventory management is refreshing. I don't really miss the 'paper doll' aspects of DAO although I take the point mentioned earlier that there's really no reason to go back to Base Camp during the game so I don't know how much 'party banter' I've missed so far.

I wouldn't say that JE has yet blown me away (like DAO did) but for a six year old game it's certainly holding its own and I don't feel like progressing through the game is a chore or anything. I wish I understood the stats management a little better but that will probably come in time (I'm running a Level 7 Wu the Lotus Blossom Open Palm Balanced PC at the moment). The Chinese milieu is a nice change from the standard Tolkien-esque High/Epic Fantasy style of most RPGs, although arguably a lot of the changes are mostly cosmetic because JE still uses fantasy archetypes but it's nice that Bioware made the effort to do something different at least. Storywise, the plot seems fairly generic, at least following the BG Candlekeep template, although there are hints that all is not as it appears so it may yet surprise.I think I've certainly played (or, I should say, failed to play) much worse RPGs.

[Qvaestor]

I found a certain in-game quote by Merchant Jiang of Tien's Landing in Chapter 2 quite revealing as to how the masses think: "You make an interesting point - when the dam was closed the people complained about the abundance of water, now they complain about the exact opposite." (or something along those lines)

That applies very well in this case. Gamers often whine that games have little orginiality, that the settings are boring, that the quests have a "been there, done that" feeling, etc. They insist on a breath of fresh air and when that breath truly arrives they find themselves incapable of understanding it or appreciating it to its full value.

IMO this is what happened to Jade Empire. The setting was *too* exotic for the average crowd, hence it had so little sales, despite being an excellent game. The fact that some Kotor 2 adherents hated it did not help any. Jade Empire was not the do-all end-all blockbuster which everybody likes and everybody buys, it was that sort of  hidden treasure which few find and appreciate. BioWare saw that. EA saw that. Thus, they abandoned it. Hidden treasures reward few people and do not boost the company market. True art doesn't come in industrial quantities. It is the way of things.

Personally, I would care little for the general opinion, if not for the sad fact that we're not going to see any future for JE. If they would have at least gave us modding tools, or create the game in a mod-friendly manner at least, maybe things would have been different.

As it is, I am content to replay it whenever I want to immerse myself into this beautiful asian world, and to see a community who still posts in this dark corner of the Bioware network (which should speak for itself as to how fantastic this game was.)

Сообщение изменено: Qvaestor, 16 Ноябрь 2011 - 12:36 .

[zx2781]

[quote]agewisdom wrote...

Well, I think the main reason why people trash Jade Empire mainly boils down to:


2. Chinese Setting
Whilst I loved this as I'm Chinese, I guess there's a disconnect for Western/European gamers when playing in this setting. This is pretty normal. That's why most Western gamers would prefer a Total War in a Roman setting as compared to say Japan or China. We tend to like what we're most familiar with.



I disagree as I am white of European descent and I am so sick of D&D medieval Europe settings I long for the originality of Jade Empire. My wife is Chinese and she made fun of the game because of the fictional language 'Tho Fan'.

[naledgeborn]

JadeEffect wrote...

I've lost my original copy. So I bought it on xbl, replayed it. Loved it. One of the best games. Would love for a sequel.

[android654]

I just played it for the very first time. I'm amazed Bioware pushed DAO as hard as it did, when I found this setting and the characters to be more interesting..

[dragonflight288]

I first played it roughly five years ago when I rented it for the xbox and I loved it then. I now have the collectors edition which plays on my xbox 360, and it still is a lot of fun. I still play it when I get bored with current games coming out, or when I'm waiting for other games (like Dragon's Dogma or ME3.)

It's short, but it has a great story, loveable characters, and an EXCELLENT soundtrack. Sometimes I open up the main menu and just listen to the soundtrack.

[Kaede4KIT]

As I remember have experienced it 2 years back, even that period this game is really high in graphic and sound effects. I only see the positive side of this game and wouldn’t mind in plying it again.