25 réponses à ce sujet

[CBGB]

 In this thread for Mages, players list spells they've found useful, along with a couple of different strategies for increasing stats.

It's interesting and helpful, and I'd love to see thoughts from experienced Warriors. What trees and skills have you liked for Sword & Board, or Dual-Wield?

What have you found useful for stat increases, aside from Strength?

[BackwardCompatibility]

Shield Wall, Dual Weapon Sweep!, Stunning Blows, Scattershot



In order of preference with all four specialisations: Dual-Wield, Shield & Sword, Two-Handed/ Archery (equal).



The dual wielding is very strong, although its power doesn't increase much with levels. Still, compared to what the Two-handed specialisation can do, I prefer swinging often than seeing high damage here and then.



Taunting your enemies on a shield walled fighter is the way to win many battle. May it be a fight against overwhelming enemies or strong bosses, if you don't have a shield & sword fighter, you will always have to revise your strategy compared to when you have one.



I found archery good but not particularly useful as one could think. When a mage would cast, attacking it doesn't change from launching a Dual-Weap fighter or a shield basher at him. Actually, it's even better. And if you wish to instant kill it, you still have to wait some long time before you shoot the arrow you want, and that arrow has some big chances to be interrupted by an opposing fireball.

Advice: Pump only DEX



Then, the Two-handed specialisation is fine, but not worth it in many common fights compared to the high dps dealer that is the Dual-Wielder fighter. You'll get swarmed quickly and it will be too long to kill your opponents only to realise that your main tank is gone, unless your Two-handed fighter becomes your tank, although it requires very high strenght.

[Korva]

I'm only level 12 with my sword & board warrior and no other warrior on my away team so I know zip about the other melee styles so far, except for playing the noble dwarf origin as a two-handed warrior. I must say the two-handed swings feel too slow, and the skill descriptions don't sound very fun with the exception of the chance to stun and Two-Handed Sweep.

Sword & board is fun so far. I filled the top and bottom rows first because I thought having moves that actually do damage and offer stuns and knockdowns would help more than pure defensive modes. The bottom row I focused on next because flanking immunity seems vital for a "tank", and Shield Mastery boosts many other talents. The only downside of this fighting style is that you don't have any AoE whatsoever.

I have some experience with Archery via Leliana, and it seems like that style is a late bloomer with the additional disadvantage of feeling quite slow. Scatter Shot is nice, though, the stun doesn't last long but the AoE is surprisingly big and unlike most spells it does not do friendly fire. I hear Arrow of Slaying is a beast, but its pre-requisite fails to impress me so far. Shattering Shot can be nice to put casters on their arse, but that only works on "white" enemies -- and again, the shot is so slow that you can forget about interrupting a spell that is already being cast.

Of the pure warrior talents, Powerful should definitely be among the first investment for anyone. Taunt is crucial for a tank because the sword & board style has no AoE and you often can't afford the time to hit every single enemy a few times to make them all hate you enough (especially in situations where you have to or want to save NPCs from being swarmed). Bravery is nice. Death Blow, however, is bugged and does not do anything.

[sweetlemonade]

I just finished playing with a sword and shield warrior, well, two actually. I had myself and Alistair with maxed sword and shield, and I have to say the survival is incredible and you can stun lock nearly anything.

Best talents I would say would have to be the entire tree lol, it all works in perfect unison, from the nice burst of Assault or survivability of Shield Wall... you can't lose.

[levigarrett]

pretty much hated the entire line of 2hers, they are so slow that i find the character loses aggro much more than any other war and their dps is actually quite a bit less

[Amarll]

Warning: long post



I found that the DPS is quite low for a 2h character, and doesn't attack as frequently as people would hope for. When I miss, I miss big time because my average hit was around 90's. It takes too long to recuperate unless you're specifically trying to control the character and utilize the chain abilities it offers.



What is incredible about the 2h warriors is their chaining abilities. I think that their abilities mesh together very well if you're a champion and berserker. A fine balance into Str, and willpower with +attack items and a little side of Con makes an incredibly powerful 2h warrior. What I noticed is that if you're to go with a 2h warrior you have to have nearly flawless tactics with your other characters to be at the tip top point of your DPS. You need a straight healer/crowd control, a sustainable DPS source whether it be from Zevran, or Leli, and a reliable and sturdy tank.



The main thing people need to realize is that tactics play a MASSIVE role in this game, while playing a 2h warrior. You need your characters and party to have a strong set of tactics that congeals together with your main character(2h warrior), because you will need to have full attention on your 2h warrior at all times. I'll get back on this.



My tips to be a successful 2h warrior:



General tips:

*The more CC the better!

*The more debuffs the better!

*If you can kill your opponent before he kills you, power to you, but some form of healing from your healer is necessary

*Having the ability to mesh your skills and talents together is incredibly important to a 2h warrior!

*Having the AOE cleanse that the Templar subclass offers is unbelievably and I mean UNBELIEVABLY valuable to the 2h warrior class.



class specifics:



Tank-

-Tank needs to have a ton of constitution, and willpower with a moderate amount of stats into dexterity and strength.

-Tank need to be a Champion some point into the game. The AOE stun that the champion class offers is extremely valuable and helps your party deal with bosses and masses of mobs a lot more effectively and quickly. The War Rally AOE attack/damage buff is also a great addition to the melee monstrosity you are planning on being.

-Of all things your tank needs to have the strongest set of tactics. Your tank needs to be able to automatically taunt anything that makes the slightest movement toward your healer.

-Your tank needs to have the tactic to either AOE stun things around your 2h warrior to reduce disruption from other sources attacking the 2h warrior.

-Your tank needs to be able to maintain and control the fight tactically which is hard when you have your attention diverted to your 2h warrior. This means having ALL the mobs attacking him without him losing aggro.



Healer/Mage-

-Your healer needs to be able to have a set of buffs that compliments your party aswell as your 2h warrior. or have the option to debuff and CC your opponents to oblivion and back(look below)

-Misdirection, weakness, paralysis, mass paralysis, and death curses are incredibly helpful to compliment your 2h warrior.

-Your healer needs has to be able to heal obviously, but it has to be a response from a tactic and it has to be used effectively and efficiently. By efficiently I mean by not using action points... well pointlessly.



Sustained DPS(dual wield rogue preferably)-

-Has to have the ability to either finish off an opponent quickly which means setting it to attack the target your 2h warrior is attacking(so your 2h warrior doesn't simply hit your opponent for a massive amount when he has 10 HP left for example, its a waste of a hit when your rogue needs to be able to finish the target off)^possibly the most important aspect of this whole party to compliment the burst damage of a 2h warrior.

-Has to have the ability to be a reliable source of DPS and support CC through traps, poisons, and stuns.

-Can be controlled by player moderately

-Targeting and positioning is a must for a dual wield rogue! backstab! backstab! backstab!

-Has to be gay



2h warrior:

-Tactics are not of an issue here(thankfully), because you will be primarily controlling him. Although they are helpful, and highly suggested, its not necessary.

-You have to have the skill or really observational skills to attack the target of your tank or to target a foe that is engaged with someone else.

- Make fast and conscious decisions though because stunning that guy with Pummel Strike to save your healer/mage is more important than ordering a critical strike to kill off your tank's target.

-Have the skill to mesh together attacks. This is the utmost important skill to have when playing a 2h warrior. You attack slowly and interrupting a swing to do a mighty blow instead of letting it get there AND THEN doing the mightly blow instantly after will allow you to get an extra hit in, along with the automatic follow up attack that proceeds after a skill is used.

-Use the pause function wisely and aggressively. What I did before a fight was simply paused it and activated my berserk ability while manually activating my sleep ability with my mage. Then use your 2h warrior to burst down sleeping mages with your sustainable DPS partner, while you then manually pause it and activate a mass paralysis and have them DPS any elites in the area.



Hope these little tips and tricks that I used help you as much as they did me!

[Korva]

I never use tactics. Literally the first thing I do with any new party member is wipe out all their pre-set tactics so I can have full control over what everyone does at all times. Maybe I should try it sometime, but I just love controlling the whole group too much, and don't trust the AI.

[Gaudion]

That was a very in-depth post, Amarll. I have no arguments that 2H DPS is lower than DW and it is quite painful when you miss, but I don't think it's quite as bad as you make it out to be.



I fight most of my battles the same way. I start in control of the tank (Alistair/Shale) to make sure he's the first one in, and then once he's in control I switch to my Mage (Morrigan) since she's easily the most versatile member of my party (ranged DPS/CC/shapeshift into melee DPS) and apply abilities where needed. My 2H Warrior PC is essentially played almost entirely by the AI through tactics, and the only time I ever have a problem is if I let him use Two-Handed Sweep without supervision. That tends to get him killed in a hurry, it's true, but he's been fine otherwise.



A 2H build is extremely simple stat-wise, so he's got a massive amount of Constitution in addition to his Strength and Willpower. He can take a hit when he needs to (and frequently does off-tank), but between him and Morrigan, even when something does turn on him, it's usually dead before it can do much damage.

[Chezdon]

I've been playing a DW Warrior for my firsy playthrough. Currently level 17.



I'd say Dual Sweep like someone else said. Stand infront of 3 or 4 enemies and the damage you can do is huge.



Riposte is useful. Stuns the enemy and gets a crit which is nice.



I haven't reached whirlwind and not sure I will, but I can see that being powerful as well.



Flurry is good - lots of attacks in a short space of time.



I think I'm something like 60% of total party damage (Morrigan, Alistair and Wynne).

[Chezdon]

Korva wrote...

I never use tactics. Literally the first thing I do with any new party member is wipe out all their pre-set tactics so I can have full control over what everyone does at all times. Maybe I should try it sometime, but I just love controlling the whole group too much, and don't trust the AI.

I got rid of tactics for Alistair and I, but kept them for Wynne and Morrigan as I found they actually cast good spells when left to their own devices. Wynne will heal when someone is dying and Morrigan gets off the damage spells.

The only complaint is Morrigan sometimes uses Horror before I've managed to use sleep, but that's minor. She uses Mind Blast when surrounded as well, so I'd say the AI is very good.

[GStruwe]

Pommel Strike has to be my favourite move. The animation is absolutely astonishing, and not to mention - realistic. But a damaging move, that would be Overpower and Critical Strike. Overpower due to the realism as well. And Critical Strike because the guy is seriously using power all the way from the toes up to the fingertips to deliver that huge blow.



The combat animations are definitively one of the best I've ever seen in an RPG.

[Taritu]

There are some fights where indominitable makes a HUGE difference. My first playthrough was a DW warrior (ended at 21, with all DW talents, all berserker, all champion) and there were fights where I was knocked down or stunned so often that Sten or Oghren did far more damage than I did just by virtue of always staying standing. Of course, most of the time I out-dpsed them significantly, but the fights where you get knocked down/stunned tend to be the more important fights.



DW is also a very good mage killer. Between riposte and punisher, if I got close enough to a mage to hit them, unless they were a boss, it was game over.



I do prefer DW and I think it's much more new player friendly and AI friendly as well, but I also do plan on doing a full playthrough with a 2H warrior.

[Theramond]

I played as a 2-handed warrior for my first run-through. Precise striking was ALWAYS activated. When accuracy is increased, 2-handed warriors are surprisingly effective at dealing DPS. Indomitable was quite useful in many situations. I never used powerful swings because it seemed like there were more sacrifices than benefits (the major one being speed). Mighty Blow, Critical Strike, and Two Handed Sweeps in conjunct with Cone of Cold and Petrify allowed me to smash through the battlefield--I could eliminate several enemies given just a few seconds. I'm not sure about armor penetration, but I'm sure that my 2-hander had been rendering the armor of my foes quite useless. Finally, I had often used haste to speed everything up. To be succint, my party felt like an unstoppable crushing force.

Generally, I designed the rest of my party to support my 2-hander. Alister was a cross-over between a tank and DPS, Wynn did heals and buffs, Morrigan did DPS and CC. And of course, my 2-hander was like a tank, given the Indomitable ability and heavy armor. I feel that the 2-hander can be thought of as an auxillary tank (a secondary tank in support of the main tank), one that can provide decent DPS (if given increased accuracy) and in the meanwhile sunder the armor of more heavily armed enemies.

Also, I think I had around 59 strength (and 26 dex), although I think pumping strength thus far was unecessary. When I had fought Loghain, the fight was exceptionally hard without the extensive use of health polstices. About half the time I had missed. So I do think it is a better idea to distribute points across strength and dex more equally, given the presumption that dex increases accuracy. Without accuracy, a 2-hander seems very useless.

I haven't tried my second run through yet. I only dabbled a bit with a mage, so I don't have much to compare the 2-hander to, although I don't think its as bad as many people are making it out to be...

For my second run through however, I am thinking of going DW warrior or rogue.

Modifié par Theramond, 19 novembre 2009 - 09:24 .

[Tyrax Lightning]

Theramond wrote...

I played as a 2-handed warrior for my first run-through. Precise striking was ALWAYS activated. When accuracy is increased, 2-handed warriors are surprisingly effective at dealing DPS. Indomitable was quite useful in many situations. I never used powerful swings because it seemed like there were more sacrifices than benefits (the major one being speed). Mighty Blow, Critical Strike, and Two Handed Sweeps in conjunct with Cone of Cold and Petrify allowed me to smash through the battlefield--I could eliminate several enemies given just a few seconds. I'm not sure about armor penetration, but I'm sure that my 2-hander had been rendering the armor of my foes quite useless. Finally, I had often used haste to speed everything up. To be succint, my party felt like an unstoppable crushing force.

Generally, I designed the rest of my party to support my 2-hander. Alister was a cross-over between a tank and DPS, Wynn did heals and buffs, Morrigan did DPS and CC. And of course, my 2-hander was like a tank, given the Indomitable ability and heavy armor. I feel that the 2-hander can be thought of as an auxillary tank (a secondary tank in support of the main tank), one that can provide decent DPS (if given increased accuracy) and in the meanwhile sunder the armor of more heavily armed enemies.

Also, I think I had around 59 strength (and 26 dex), although I think pumping strength thus far was unecessary. When I had fought Loghain, the fight was exceptionally hard without the extensive use of health polstices. About half the time I had missed. So I do think it is a better idea to distribute points across strength and dex more equally, given the presumption that dex increases accuracy. Without accuracy, a 2-hander seems very useless.

I haven't tried my second run through yet. I only dabbled a bit with a mage, so I don't have much to compare the 2-hander to, although I don't think its as bad as many people are making it out to be...

For my second run through however, I am thinking of going DW warrior or rogue.

I've heard in other threads that 2H get accuracy power from Str as well, so for 2H, it's best to favor Str & nearly ignore Dex. (Perhaps 18 Dex at most for one of the Warrior abilities & no more.)

Can anyone confirm this? Some say that the 2H accuracy got pretty good once Str got REALLY high, like 70+.

[NaclynE]

Most of the warriors i've made have been dual wielders as opposed to two handed wielders or sword/shield users. However I do like the shield/sword set a bit better than the two handed wielding set because you can knock a guy unconcious and take advantage of them and theres even some stun attacks as well. Two handed wielding I must say gives you the true tank experince and alot of the attacks ive gotten into defenetly show that it's the most powerful set.

However as I said before I prefer dual wielding for attacks like flurry and ropel as well as the ability to use it more effectively and the ability to wield/swing both at the same time. Sweep is nice because you can hit 6 guys at once if you cluster them well enough together.



Just my thoughts.

[Gaudion]

Tyrax Lightning wrote...

I've heard in other threads that 2H get accuracy power from Str as well, so for 2H, it's best to favor Str & nearly ignore Dex. (Perhaps 18 Dex at most for one of the Warrior abilities & no more.)

Can anyone confirm this? Some say that the 2H accuracy got pretty good once Str got REALLY high, like 70+.

I'm not sure how it is for the people playing on consoles, but on the PC version if you hover your mouse over the stats on your character sheet the game will literally tell you what they do point-for-point.

In any case, it's not just 2H, but all melee attacks that gets accuracy from Strength, whereas Dexterity increases accuracy for both melee and ranged attacks. This essentially means that Dexterity is only worthwhile for a melee DPS Warrior up to the maximum total he needs for DW talents if he goes that route; otherwise it's completely overshadowed by Strength which also increases your damage.

2H Warriors have an extremely simple stat spread: Strength, Willpower, Constitution. Other than Cunning requirements for skills, that's it.

Powerful Swings is also very important to a 2H build. Our auto-attack DPS is terrible compared to DW; what really sets 2H apart from DW and makes it shine are the overwhelmingly powerful attack talents. With enough stamina and/or support to rotate them consistently throughout a battle you can really deliver a significant amount of damage. In 2H's case it just happens to come in staggered bursts instead of a consistent flow like DW.

Modifié par Gaudion, 20 novembre 2009 - 01:23 .

[Takrandro]

The downside of powerfull swigs is the even more slow attack rate then u normally already have, so i would't call it an inportant ability, most use indomable, since getting immune to stuns and knockdowns as well as getting some exstra dam is a better trade-off then more damage for an even slower attack rate.

Also in the DW tree, i must say that Wirlwind attack rocks! the only melee AoE ablilty and its damage is good as well.

[Kromhawk]

Korva wrote...

I'm only level 12 with my sword & board warrior and no other warrior on my away team so I know zip about the other melee styles so far, except for playing the noble dwarf origin as a two-handed warrior. I must say the two-handed swings feel too slow, and the skill descriptions don't sound very fun with the exception of the chance to stun and Two-Handed Sweep.

Sword & board is fun so far. I filled the top and bottom rows first because I thought having moves that actually do damage and offer stuns and knockdowns would help more than pure defensive modes. The bottom row I focused on next because flanking immunity seems vital for a "tank", and Shield Mastery boosts many other talents. The only downside of this fighting style is that you don't have any AoE whatsoever.

I have some experience with Archery via Leliana, and it seems like that style is a late bloomer with the additional disadvantage of feeling quite slow. Scatter Shot is nice, though, the stun doesn't last long but the AoE is surprisingly big and unlike most spells it does not do friendly fire. I hear Arrow of Slaying is a beast, but its pre-requisite fails to impress me so far. Shattering Shot can be nice to put casters on their arse, but that only works on "white" enemies -- and again, the shot is so slow that you can forget about interrupting a spell that is already being cast.

Of the pure warrior talents, Powerful should definitely be among the first investment for anyone. Taunt is crucial for a tank because the sword & board style has no AoE and you often can't afford the time to hit every single enemy a few times to make them all hate you enough (especially in situations where you have to or want to save NPCs from being swarmed). Bravery is nice. Death Blow, however, is bugged and does not do anything.

About the archery talents, Arrow Of Slaying hits for almost 500 with good attributes at level 20.

[Tyrax Lightning]

Takrandro wrote...

The downside of powerfull swigs is the even more slow attack rate then u normally already have, so i would't call it an inportant ability, most use indomable, since getting immune to stuns and knockdowns as well as getting some exstra dam is a better trade-off then more damage for an even slower attack rate.
Also in the DW tree, i must say that Wirlwind attack rocks! the only melee AoE ablilty and its damage is good as well.

There's an aoe attack in the 2H line as one of the 4th tier abilities, Two-Handed Sweep.

[Korva]

Kromhawk wrote...

About the archery talents, Arrow Of Slaying hits for almost 500 with good attributes at level 20.

I have that on Leliana now. For some reason it seems to miss nine times out of ten. A few times she did ~230 damage, but otherwise even IF it hits it rarely "slays" anything, and if it misses and the target isn't firmly glued to my warrior yet, it'll make a beeline for Leliana although she didn't do any damage. Weird. I've been giving her mostly Dexterity on levelup so her hit rating isn't down in the dumps, and other attacks almost always hit.

[Tyrax Lightning]

Korva wrote...

Kromhawk wrote...

About the archery talents, Arrow Of Slaying hits for almost 500 with good attributes at level 20.

I have that on Leliana now. For some reason it seems to miss nine times out of ten. A few times she did ~230 damage, but otherwise even IF it hits it rarely "slays" anything, and if it misses and the target isn't firmly glued to my warrior yet, it'll make a beeline for Leliana although she didn't do any damage. Weird. I've been giving her mostly Dexterity on levelup so her hit rating isn't down in the dumps, and other attacks almost always hit.

I've heard intel that Archery has some bugs in it, but they're getting addressed in a future patch.

[Korva]

I used Arrow of Slaying maybe half a dozen times today, and every bloody time it missed. What gives? Half the time it pulled the target off my warrior to boot, and one was a revenant so poor Leliana required a Force Field intervention from Wynne -- despite my warrior having beaten on the revenant with everything she had twice over first and having Threaten on. Sheesh. Am I the only one having trouble with this talent?

And I sincerely hope they will fix Death Blow too, I tested it again today, no effect.

Also, the middle line from the Weapon & Shield style is a bit lackluster IMO. Shield Wall is nice, but I don't like how it makes Shield Defense all but redundant -- and with Shield Cover from the last line, we have three anti-missile talents. Makes it look like they ran out of ideas for "tank" talents. Maybe there should be only one activated talent and three passives to make it better. Or one of Cover/Defense/Wall should offer a certain degree of protection from spells that don't affect the mind.

Modifié par Korva, 21 novembre 2009 - 08:57 .

[CBGB]

These are helpful, smart responses.



Amaril, thanks for the thorough look at the 2-H line. I've already put some of your suggestions to good use.



Korva, I, too, am turning off Tactics for my party members. I wish I knew how to set them more effectively. It's a great idea.



I've had little luck with the Archery line for Leliana so far, but I may learn to use it better.



The Sword & Board line is working out well for me, though I'm not sure how best to juggle the competing demands for Str and Dex. Is it worth the extra Dex points to protect against flanking attacks?

[Ulrik the Slayer]

Critical Strike - what's up with this? Mighty Blow seems to beat it anyday. Says Critical Strike should have a chance for insta-death, but I've never seen it happen...

[Eido Lonseirei]

Death Blow isn't broken - all you gain though is a bonus to your stamina, so it doesn't seem to work. That's all it actually does, but for people like myself who don't put points into their Willpower slots, feeling that the base damage should be higher to compensate with ease for this deficiency in Willpower, then DB is fine.



It doesn't say anywhere that special cinematics would occur or that the boost would be significant, it's just a slight gain, similar to how a character with high health on Expert or Nightmare gains little to no health when using lesser health pots.