734 réponses à ce sujet

[mr_afk]

Fleet Command wrote...

3. Summon Ser Pounce-A-Lot

Excuse me? Am I missing something?

That move is only available on Awakening

So, that means ... what? Does that mean this guide is for Awakening (which I doubt) or does that mean having an Awakening saved game allows player to have "Summon Ser Pounce-A-Lot" skill/talent in DA2? Or is it a secret phrase between hardcore fans?

lol it's a joke.

Modifié par mr_afk, 05 septembre 2012 - 04:18 .

[frustratemyself]

mr_afk wrote...

lol it's a joke.

You're no fun afk

[mr_afk]

Haha I was going to go along with 'some secret phase between hardcore fans' but I decided to be nice.

Anyway,
@Fleet Command - imo, the black emporium tome really should go to hawke despite what Arelex said. if you look at the skill lists, the companions mostly finish around after 17-19 points while hawke requires 23. Anders gets a free point from dissent, so his build will be the first to be completed (at level 16) anyway.
My bad - I think we got confused with the pre-patch and post-patch builds haha. Ignore that unless you're playing pre-patch.

This is the updated level-up guide for Anders, which requires 28 points (while hawke needs 26). So you probably do need to give him the tome to finish his build in a reasonable time-frame. 

Modifié par mr_afk, 06 septembre 2012 - 07:09 .

[punkgamer01]

 why in the list of elemental weakness of arelex it is said that mage of circle and blood mage are weak to spirit and that on pc all the mages in act 3 are immune to spirit ? and i am not only talking about those mage from the coterie, but also of the circle and blood mage of the best-served cold/on the loose/ and other such quest where mage are not from the coterie nor from the kirkall type ??

[punkgamer01]

 i got a question ! ^^' 

how much strengh do i need to invest if i go the elemental warrior ways with your build ? because, if remember correctly the +% elemental gear don't add strengh to your stats, and the dlc item pack did. what do you recommend that i used the dlc item pack and that i rely on crit to got "sometimes" big number and have more change to not do glancing blow against boss or higer ranked ennemy or do i continue the elemental way, wich i am limited into constitution and strengh, due to the fact that i have to invest into willpower.

btw : i used a mod that double the attribute and ability point and that procure me a 3rd spec. even with this, i can barely have enough str to have 100% against, and still, against assassin, i have to put shield defense on and after their backtab i have like 1 hp or so left.

so, do i used the warriors item pack gear or do i stick with +% elemental gear ?

[Bigdawg13]

I have two questions, but first a huge thank you to Arelex. I appreciate the work you did in sharing your guide with the community.

1). It seems like Merril's tactics to deactivate and later reactivate 'Blood of the First' do not work after level 13 when you acquire 'Wrath of the Elvhen'. Once Merrill's life drops below 50%, she deactivates 'Blood of the First', but due to 'Wrath of the Elvhen'' it cannot be reactivated once healed. I have to manually deactivate 'Wrath of the Elvhen' each time before I can reactivate 'Blood of the First'. Anyone else experiencing this?

2). Is SnS still vastly superior to 2H now that the sunder bug appears fixed as of 1.04?

Modifié par Bigdawg13, 09 octobre 2012 - 05:26 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Bigdawg13 wrote...

I have two questions, but first a huge thank you to Arelex. I appreciate the work you did in sharing your guide with the community.

1). It seems like Merril's tactics to deactivate and later reactivate 'Blood of the First' do not work after level 13 when you acquire 'Wrath of the Elvhen'. Once Merrill's life drops below 50%, she deactivates 'Blood of the First', but due to 'Wrath of the Elvhen'' it cannot be reactivated once healed. I have to manually deactivate 'Wrath of the Elvhen' each time before I can reactivate 'Blood of the First'. Anyone else experiencing this?

2). Is SnS still vastly superior to 2H now that the sunder bug appears fixed as of 1.04?

try this.

altered build


Self: Health <50% - Deactivate - Blood of the First
Self: Health <50% - Use Potion
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Hex of Torment
Enemy: has buff: uccfnt
Enemy: elite or higher: Dispel
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Winter's Grasp
Enemy: Clustered with at least three enemies - Wounds of the Past
Enemy: STAGGERED (or Clustered 3+) - Chain Lightning
Enemy: DISORIENTED - Stonefist
Enemy: DISORIENTED - Spirit Bolt
Self: surrounded by at least three enemies - Ensnare
Self: surrounded by at least 3 enemies: Activate: Wrath of the Elvhen
Enemy: Target between medium and long range - Firestorm
Enemy: Target between short and medium range - Tempest
self: mana <25%: uccfnt
Self: Health >=75% - Activate: Blood of the First
Self: Mana or stamina <10% - Use: Lyrium Potion
Self: at least 1 enemy alive: skip tactics
Self: any: Deactivate Blood of the First
Self: any: deactivate: Wrath of the Elvhen

*manual activation of Rock Armor & Elemental Weapons

to answer your second question, it comes down to the make up and type of your party.  More deliberate builds around the stagger method will prefer the control and sense of SnS. 

Where 2h would introduce brittle into the equation, offering more damage by far.  But with that, carries more splash damage and a bit of a modded party build.  Introduction of upgraded Winters Blast and Petrify for sure.  Blast carries a small area of effect, where Grasp does not. 

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 09 octobre 2012 - 08:59 .

[Bigdawg13]

SuicidialBaby wrote...


try this.

altered build


Self: Health <50% - Deactivate - Blood of the First
Self: Health <50% - Use Potion
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Hex of Torment
Enemy: has buff: uccfnt
Enemy: elite or higher: Dispel
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Winter's Grasp
Enemy: Clustered with at least three enemies - Wounds of the Past
Enemy: STAGGERED (or Clustered 3+) - Chain Lightning
Enemy: DISORIENTED - Stonefist
Enemy: DISORIENTED - Spirit Bolt
Self: surrounded by at least three enemies - Ensnare
Self: surrounded by at least 3 enemies: Activate: Wrath of the Elvhen
Enemy: Target between medium and long range - Firestorm
Enemy: Target between short and medium range - Tempest
self: mana <25%: uccfnt
Self: Health >=75% - Activate: Blood of the First
Self: Mana or stamina <10% - Use: Lyrium Potion
Self: at least 1 enemy alive: skip tactics
Self: any: Deactivate Blood of the First
Self: any: deactivate: Wrath of the Elvhen

*manual activation of Rock Armor & Elemental Weapons

to answer your second question, it comes down to the make up and type of your party.  More deliberate builds around the stagger method will prefer the control and sense of SnS. 

Where 2h would introduce brittle into the equation, offering more damage by far.  But with that, carries more splash damage and a bit of a modded party build.  Introduction of upgraded Winters Blast and Petrify for sure.  Blast carries a small area of effect, where Grasp does not. 

Thank you for the information and suggested tactics for Merrill.  I was slightly concerned that I may not see a response to my question for a few months.  I have more questions though after seeing your response. 

I'm not sure that's the link you intended to submit as there was no "dispel".  I still think the problem will occur as if she ever gets surrounded she'll activate 'Wrath of the Elvhen' and then if she is hurt and later healed, she won't be able to reactivate 'Blood of the First'.  It's too bad I can't make it check for Blood of the first before activating Wrath of the Elvhen.

As for the rest, I'm not sure that information in in sync with Arelex's build.  Note that Arelex's 2H build does not build on Brittle as a combo, but rather setting up stagger.  For example, note how 'reaper' (upgrade of Scythe to take advantage of Brittle) was never taken.  Also, usage of winter's grasp or petrify are ignored in the tactics.   Instead you stagger enemies and then rely on the tactics of your companions (and it seems Varic/Merril/Anders is the preferred group for all of Arelex's builds) to combo off of stagger.  Without 'Sunder' (which was bugged until 1.04), you only could stagger with claymore (and maybe some stuff in the specialization trees). 

With SnS you only stagger with claymore.  It is not any more reliable.  The most reliable stagger would be an upgraded shield bash which is not included in the build.  So you have a random uncontrollable stagger (just like 2H except no sunder) from claymore and more likely rely on disorients.

Maybe I'm just not playing it right, but so far I feel really handicapped as SnS even with all the DLC.  2H feels far superior.  That may change around level 17 when Varric starts using fatiguing fog to disorient.  But right now the only real combo I can create is a stagger/chain-lightning.  With sunder fixed, 2H creates staggers all over the place all the time. 

Modifié par Bigdawg13, 09 octobre 2012 - 08:04 .

[SuicidalBaby]

I would look at taking Pommel Strike and its upgrade, with shield bash you have 2 staggers ever 10 seconds. With 2h you can focus stagger 1 on demand.

Crushing prison makes a good combo. Elemental weapons makes a good per-requisite filler, or Barrier if you dont want to stack EW with different elements. Varric's Kickback upgrade could also be introduced.

As I said, it would most likely take a whole party modification to introduce brittle. I find Varric's disorients far more entertaining with Scatter and Assault from SnS personally.

fixed build

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 09 octobre 2012 - 08:58 .

[Bigdawg13]

Except for the fillers at the end of Arelex's builds (rally, 2nd wind, unit, etc) I'm not sure what to give up. I could gut the reaver tree so I could focus on more in the 2H (or SnS) tree + pommel strike. I'm not sure it's worth it. I'll play around and let you know if I find anything worth giving up for pommel strike.

[SuicidalBaby]

The options are like the void, vast and infinite. Our ways here are simply the simplified versions of what we are pushing with-in our own builds. Or were anyway, in my own case. Do not shy from experimenting yourself. You will have more fun.

I like Arelex's builds as a template, but in truth it is ours, at least when it comes to the mages and tactics. We have learned from each other and both enjoyed the benefits, attempting to pass them on to the community. As this particular game was riddled with half-truths and script bugs that would drive lesser men insane.

[Dabrikishaw]

People have mentioned a bug with Sundering here. Has that been fixed in 1.05?

[SuicidalBaby]

yes

[Dabrikishaw]

Cool.

[AreleX]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

The options are like the void, vast and infinite. Our ways here are simply the simplified versions of what we are pushing with-in our own builds. Or were anyway, in my own case. Do not shy from experimenting yourself. You will have more fun.

I like Arelex's builds as a template, but in truth it is ours, at least when it comes to the mages and tactics. We have learned from each other and both enjoyed the benefits, attempting to pass them on to the community. As this particular game was riddled with half-truths and script bugs that would drive lesser men insane.

to compound upon this a bit:

the best thing you can do is look at these builds is, at first, as ruies. as you play, learn, and understand what it is about them that makes them powerful/successful. once you can pick them (and, as such, the game) apart, they become guidelines.

i've always been a fan of the 'it's a rule until you understand why it's a rule, then you learn when it's appropriate to bend it' method of teaching, and that's what suicidal and i have tried to do in our time on the da2 forums. at some point in playing (or even looking at) one of the builds we've done, you'll have that lightbulb moment where everything makes sense, and that's when you know you can comfortably put your own spin on things.

unless you're going to play spirit healer. do not ever play spirit healer, no matter what.

Modifié par AreleX, 14 décembre 2012 - 03:40 .

[AreleX]

i also want to add that if i am remembered here for one thing, and one thing, only, i want it to be for 'summon ser pounce-a-lot'

[Dabrikishaw]

Is playing as a healer mage that boring, or just not practical?

[mr_afk]

Both really.

The combat system in DA2 isn't very balanced in some regards. While it might be slightly counter-intuitive, an offensive, high dps approach is a lot more effective and offers more survivability than a defensive or healing approach.

This is to do with these factors:
 - Crowd-control allows you to deal damage without receiving damage
 - Spike damage allows you to deal lots of damage at once.
 - Enemies deal vastly different amounts of damage based on their rank/type. Assassins, rage demons, and other elite/boss enemies deal massive amounts of damage, while the plebs just stand around waiting for you to kill them.
 - Dead enemies do not deal damage

So as you probably can see, pairing crowd-control with high amounts of damage allows you to kill-off tougher enemies, reducing the damage you receive and the need for 'tanking' or healing.

This places an emphasis on crowd-control abilities and damage-related abilities.
Spirit healer has absolutely no offensive or crowd-control value. It purely is involved with healing or resurrecting the party - which are both things that shouldn't be necessary. To make matters worse, while in spirit healer mode, offensive abilities are disabled.

Since there are a limited number of ability points, speccing into spirit healer has the opportunity cost of other abilities that could be used for crowd-control or damage. Actually healing with a spirit healer has the opportunity cost of the potential damage your mage could be dealing instead.

So, at best, a spirit healer build will be redundant, and at worst, a spirit healer build will force you into a defensive setup where you can't kill-off enemies fast enough and your party ends up receiving more damage (and actually requiring all that healing).


That's not to say you shouldn't ever spec into a healer build if that's your thing. I believe that it's possible to reach health regen states where you're practically invincible (your regen is higher than the damage your enemies deal). It just (typically) leads to long battles of attrition where each side slowly whittles the other down - something which I don't personally find very appealing.

Modifié par mr_afk, 16 décembre 2012 - 05:38 .

[SuicidalBaby]

AreleX wrote...

SuicidialBaby wrote...

The options are like the void, vast and infinite. Our ways here are simply the simplified versions of what we are pushing with-in our own builds. Or were anyway, in my own case. Do not shy from experimenting yourself. You will have more fun.

I like Arelex's builds as a template, but in truth it is ours, at least when it comes to the mages and tactics. We have learned from each other and both enjoyed the benefits, attempting to pass them on to the community. As this particular game was riddled with half-truths and script bugs that would drive lesser men insane.

to compound upon this a bit:

the best thing you can do is look at these builds is, at first, as ruies. as you play, learn, and understand what it is about them that makes them powerful/successful. once you can pick them (and, as such, the game) apart, they become guidelines.

i've always been a fan of the 'it's a rule until you understand why it's a rule, then you learn when it's appropriate to bend it' method of teaching, and that's what suicidal and i have tried to do in our time on the da2 forums. at some point in playing (or even looking at) one of the builds we've done, you'll have that lightbulb moment where everything makes sense, and that's when you know you can comfortably put your own spin on things.

unless you're going to play spirit healer. do not ever play spirit healer, no matter what.

I love those moments.  like that goad tactic with the jump.  god damn thats a thing of beauty.  or my jump for sh/panacea activation control which started the tactics thread.  I am damn proud of that one.   I like your double use tactic with bolster/martyr instead of skip or wait, you're proactive with it.

just little gems of genius that make the tai chi of tactics flow.

[Tarion Besbald]

Do you recommend the skill sequence you posted for 1.03 for Anders, Varric and Merril to be used in the ARW fight on nightmare as well?

[Augustus Leto]

So I noticed that you suggest in many places that SnS is ultimately better than 2H... but you don't recommend any SnS weapons in the weapons section. On top of that, with the patch update info and all the editing to the original post going on with that... I'm just confusing myself trying to follow this guide. :/

So can we try to clarify some things? Is SnS still better/viable? Am I supposed to start 2H and then respec, and when should I respec? What's the current deal with patches? I'm willing to experiment with the build later on, but I haven't played this game since release and have no idea what balance changes have been going on, so I'm having trouble just starting out on the right path at the moment. Any help would be appreciated.

[mr_afk]

It's discussed in quite a few threads already, but in relation to warriors:
- patch made game easier overall (reducing enemy hp, damage, stun-locks etc)
- patch nerfed warrior's ability to stagger and the stagger CCC damage (claymore+chain lightning/haemorrhage combo no longer as godly)
- patch nerfed reaver and buffed berserker, although reaver remains good
- patch dropped elemental resistance cap to 95%, making friendly-fire an issue (fire-storms and walking bombs a lot more risky in melee setups)

As a result of the changes almost every build is 'viable' now, even on nightmare, but certain min-maxed/speed-run strategies are relatively less effective.

Arelex's original 2H approach involved stacking on ridiculous amounts of +%attack-speed and +%damage, staggering everything, and getting the mages to zap them with chain lightning. While this still works, the number of staggers and the damage that the CCCs deal is considerably less.

This makes the disorient CCCs of a S&S more useful in comparison. His post-patch build reflects this, involving a greater amount of disorienting enemies and exploding them with his warrior and mages.

So to clarify, you can pretty much do whatever you want and get through the game, however S&S is probably superior to 2H post-patch. There's no need to start as one thing and change - his guide basically provides an option for each.

To follow his updated guide, just start reading from the "Patch 1.02 (Console) and 1.03 (PC) Build/Tactics/Notes Updates", clicking on the names of companions to bring up their ability lists.

Weapons-wise it's best to use the elemental dlc gear (edge of night, desdemona's blade), followed by the elemental weapons that become available in act 3, however if you don't have any dlc you'll probably just have to get by on whatever weapon has the highest base damage.

Hope this helps

Modifié par mr_afk, 21 mai 2013 - 09:24 .

[Augustus Leto]

That all does help, thanks a lot! I've got DLC weapons so I'll check those out, thanks.