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Berserker Vanguard - Mach-5 Massacre (Nightmare Guide) Guide updated for Patch 1.02/1.03 + Isabela build + Isabela Edition 2.0 video added (June 17th)


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#51
Graunt

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Altima Darkspells wrote...

Graunt wrote...

-snip-


Wouldn't it be easier just to pop a stamina drought instead of putting talent points towards Second Wind for those tricky boss fights?


Even if you don't even plan on using Adrenaline ever, you might not be
able to get enough uses of Claymore/Barrage with just potions alone.


Besides, do you not care anything at all for Varric/Sebastian? :(  Also, the suggestion for Death Blow is to keep stamina levels high -- yet Second Wind is simply all around superior.  Over time it should come out to about the same gains, yet you can control when you get a complete refill with it AND it costs you less points to get.
It's bad enough that you have to waste a skill point in an unupgraded Adrenaline just to get the upgrade to Barrage.

If you're all about speed, and nothing but speed as often as possible with the best sustained damage, I'd probably go with this:biowarefans.com/dragon-age-2-talent-builder/#wrwGQIjLAp1GInpNLteDYmRko0P1lF (in absolutely no particular order)

Deep Reserves is a bit of a stretch and may not actually contribute all that much, and picking up the upgrade for Berserk would probably be better overall.

Bearbeitet von Graunt, 19 März 2011 - 03:25 .


#52
Seblun

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Why am I thinking that there is a cap on attack speed %

I didn't see that much of a difference with Haste and Barrage on. Also with the
Primeval Lyrium Rune...

#53
AreleX

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Seblun wrote...

Why am I thinking that there is a cap on attack speed %

I didn't see that much of a difference with Haste and Barrage on. Also with the
Primeval Lyrium Rune...


I can personally confirm that all the speed boosts do add up. Have you been using Isabela in your parties? Her friendship passive is bugged, and can affect your attack speed inversely over time.

:wizard:

Bearbeitet von AreleX, 19 März 2011 - 11:17 .


#54
AreleX

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Updated OP with a section on weapons to help you get the best gear available to you at each point in the game - check it out!

:wizard:

#55
HighlandBerserkr

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Given my real life nickname is Berserkr i have always picked it as my speiciality, then it wasn't until the thread by sabresandiego that i started paying attention to how good Vangaurd was, i used this exact party since pretty much the beginning but wasn't worrying about tactic so i died occasionally even on normal, then i found your guide and built my Hawke and party tactics based on yours and BAMN! i even beat the high dragon without breaking a sweat, no none even came close to dieing especially by that point i had the Berserkr skill where you gain stamina when you kill an enemy so when he summoned the dragonlings it was go time and i was full again by the time the High Dragon swooped back down, this class is a beast, so much fun and completely unstoppable!

#56
Seblun

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Noticed that I completely ran out of stamina way to frequently when fighting the High Dragon.

Berserk (Savage Berserk/Endless Berserk) just destroys your stamina when you're fighting a boss and once the stamina is gone, the damage is gimped.

#57
AreleX

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New video, Low-Level Berserker Vanguard 2, to help you guys out early game, when it's more difficult to play Berserker. In this video, I take on fake guardsmen, angry Qunari, bums in Darktown, and an **** slaver with a bad accent. Check it out!

I'll try to add Act II for the Weapons section and a leveling guide if/when I get home later..

Seblun wrote...

Noticed that I completely ran out of stamina way to frequently when fighting the High Dragon.

Berserk (Savage Berserk/Endless Berserk) just destroys your stamina when you're fighting a boss and once the stamina is gone, the damage is gimped.


Drop out of Berserk when you're going up against enemies you'd be burning stamina to fight, and use Cleave instead. I'm pretty sure I put that in the OP, but I'll try to go back and make it easier to catch. Check out my low-level videos, (and once in Forces, too, I think) If I'm fighting an enemy that would make me smoke through my stamina, I'll often end Berserk momentairly and Cleave it up until they're near death, then reactivate.

A good way to think of Berserk is as an investment; if there's a situation where I won't see greater or at least near equal returns on the stamina I put in, I use Cleave instead.

:wizard:

Bearbeitet von AreleX, 19 März 2011 - 08:17 .


#58
Foolsfolly

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I'm barely in this build and I'm having a blast. Thank AreleX.

#59
HighlandBerserkr

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Seblun wrote...

Noticed that I completely ran out of stamina way to frequently when fighting the High Dragon.

Berserk (Savage Berserk/Endless Berserk) just destroys your stamina when you're fighting a boss and once the stamina is gone, the damage is gimped.


I had no problem with stanima like i said, fighting and killing dragonlings filled my bar right back up.

#60
ExcitedApathy

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Ok, I'm convinced. I just destroyed the Ancient Rock Wraith using this build. Granted, most of you will refute this (I play on Normal), but I absolutely decimated it. It was a whole lot easier with a 2 handed Zerker than it was with my Force mage.

#61
WJC3688

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I've been doing this build myself and it's working great so far.  Excellent guide.  I notice that you listed stat allocation as enough strength/constitution to use the best gear and the rest into willpower, though.  I'm wondering whether or not it's really worth it to boost willpower as much as possible or focus on strength instead.

Since Berserk translates stamina directly into damage, both Str and Wil add damage, but which one adds more?  Str adds 1 point of damage per 2 attribute points invested (so +0.5 damage per point), while 1 point of willpower adds 5 stamina (which translates to +0.75 damage with upgraded Berserk active, so 1 Wil ils worth +0.25 damage over 1 Str, again assuming Berserk is active).  From a pure damage perspective willpower would appear to be better, but the thing is, strength doesn't only add pure damage.  It also adds attack and fortitude.

I used a couple respecs on my level 20 guy to see just how much of an attack difference we're talking:  After getting 41 Str for Bloom and 31 for Champion Armor, I had 19 points left over to put wherever I want, and putting all of those into Str resulted in +10% chance to hit as opposed to what I'd have if I put them all into Wil instead (98% as opposed to 88% vs normal enemies).

For an idea of how much of a difference this makes in your DPS:  Putting the points into Wil would've given +4.75 (19 * 0.25) damage over the Str build.  With +10% chance to hit on the Str build, this means it should land an extra hit that the Wil build would've missed once every 10 hits.  So out of 10 attacks, the Str build would hit 10, while the Wil build would miss one, but the Wil build would do a little more damage on each hit that it did land.  Which one wins out?  Well, my guy's base damage on the Str build is 63 (60 Str + Bloom), so that's at least +63 damage over the Wil build when that extra hit happens; however, that's just what is displayed on the attributes screen, which doesn't take into account bonuses from sustains or runes, so in reality it's much more than 63 damage (exactly how much more I can't be bothered to calculate).  So the Str build gets 63+ extra damage from that extra hit; how much extra damage does the Wil build get from doing a bit more on the 9 hits it does land?  Only 42.75 (9 * 4.75).  If I've got my math right, over the course of 10 attacks (and in general), the build that focuses on Str does more damage.

Again, in addition to that, the Str guy also has a lot more fortitude for whatever that's worth.  Perhaps most importantly of all, it seems like a Str-focused build would be far, far better for taking on elite bosses like the High Dragon since you can't viably sustain Berserk against those guys, and once you turn Berserk off, all your extra damage from pumping Wil means nothing anymore, but a Str-focused build still has all of its Str-based damage going.

Now, in addition to raw damage Wil also gives you more stamina to use for activated abilities, but with this build it seems like that should be a non-issue, since as you said, using activated abilities often actually lowers your DPS anyways.

The bottom line?  Seems to me that the stat allocation should be enough Con to wear the best armor + pure Str after that.  Maybe invest a few points into Willpower if for some reason you need enough stamina to use all of your activated abilities at once, but past that, ignore it.  Of course I could be missing something here and I welcome someone to correct me if that's the case.

Bearbeitet von WJC3688, 20 März 2011 - 12:20 .


#62
garlicburp

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would it be possible to list what armor you are using when leveling up? Well up to champion armor. thanks great guide

#63
AreleX

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WJC3688 wrote...

I've been doing this build myself and it's working great so far.  Excellent guide.  I notice that you listed stat allocation as enough strength/constitution to use the best gear and the rest into willpower, though.  I'm wondering whether or not it's really worth it to boost willpower as much as possible or focus on strength instead.

Since Berserk translates stamina directly into damage, both Str and Wil add damage, but which one adds more?  Str adds 1 point of damage per 2 attribute points invested (so +0.5 damage per point), while 1 point of willpower adds 5 stamina (which translates to +0.75 damage with upgraded Berserk active, so 1 Wil ils worth +0.25 damage over 1 Str, again assuming Berserk is active).  From a pure damage perspective willpower would appear to be better, but the thing is, strength doesn't only add pure damage.  It also adds attack and fortitude.

I used a couple respecs on my level 20 guy to see just how much of an attack difference we're talking:  After getting 41 Str for Bloom and 31 for Champion Armor, I had 19 points left over to put wherever I want, and putting all of those into Str resulted in +10% chance to hit as opposed to what I'd have if I put them all into Wil instead (98% as opposed to 88% vs normal enemies).

For an idea of how much of a difference this makes in your DPS:  Putting the points into Wil would've given +4.75 (19 * 0.25) damage over the Str build.  With +10% chance to hit on the Str build, this means it should land an extra hit that the Wil build would've missed once every 10 hits.  So out of 10 attacks, the Str build would hit 10, while the Wil build would miss one, but the Wil build would do a little more damage on each hit that it did land.  Which one wins out?  Well, my guy's base damage on the Str build is 63 (60 Str + Bloom), so that's at least +63 damage over the Wil build when that extra hit happens; however, that's just what is displayed on the attributes screen, which doesn't take into account bonuses from sustains or runes, so in reality it's much more than 63 damage (exactly how much more I can't be bothered to calculate).  So the Str build gets 63+ extra damage from that extra hit; how much extra damage does the Wil build get from doing a bit more on the 9 hits it does land?  Only 42.75 (9 * 4.75).  If I've got my math right, over the course of 10 attacks (and in general), the build that focuses on Str does more damage.

Again, in addition to that, the Str guy also has a lot more fortitude for whatever that's worth.  Perhaps most importantly of all, it seems like a Str-focused build would be far, far better for taking on elite bosses like the High Dragon since you can't viably sustain Berserk against those guys, and once you turn Berserk off, all your extra damage from pumping Wil means nothing anymore, but a Str-focused build still has all of its Str-based damage going.

Now, in addition to raw damage Wil also gives you more stamina to use for activated abilities, but with this build it seems like that should be a non-issue, since as you said, using activated abilities often actually lowers your DPS anyways.

The bottom line?  Seems to me that the stat allocation should be enough Con to wear the best armor + pure Str after that.  Maybe invest a few points into Willpower if for some reason you need enough stamina to use all of your activated abilities at once, but past that, ignore it.  Of course I could be missing something here and I welcome someone to correct me if that's the case.


Good points, and very well thought-out!

I thought this to myself for a bit too, 'why invest a ton in STA if i'm not going to be using active talents very much?'. Most of the reason is for ease of play during the lower levels, until you can get Endless Berserk, because before you do, it is more difficult to play with Berserk active while keeping your STA up. At endgame, you could pretty much drop your sword and headbutt every enemy to death because of how beefy you are, but it's a fight in the early parts. That's why I started making the Low-Level videos, to help people with that semi-awkward transition from 'struggling to keep stamina full' to 'everywhere on the screen at once'.

How about this: You invest in Willpower up to a certain point (to get you a semi comfortable pool to work with), enough CON to equip Champion armor, and the rest into strength?

I'll give it some testing at a lower level to see if the STR increase can negate having a smaller Willpower pool for basic attacks. I've got Endless Berserk now, so the results may be interesting.

:wizard:

Bearbeitet von AreleX, 20 März 2011 - 06:07 .


#64
Slayne

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 Nice guide.

#65
AreleX

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I've given the tactics section a bit of an overhaul, so check it again, and make sure yours are up-to-date.

:wizard:

Bearbeitet von AreleX, 20 März 2011 - 06:44 .


#66
Stardusk78

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AreleX wrote...

Updated OP with a section on weapons to help you get the best gear available to you at each point in the game - check it out!

:wizard:


What is your opinion of prioritising Reaver talents over Beserker ones?

#67
Sabresandiego

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I redid the Qun area at level 19 with all sorts of different talent combinations. Berserker/Reaver with barrage/fervor is the only build that was as fun to play as my vanguard build. It actually kills trash faster then my ultimate vanguard build, but is slightly weaker on bosses and also weaker against demons, mages, and assassins. You are much more likely to be killed as a berserker because of the lack of magic resistance from templar, 20% less damage resistance, and lack of crowd control from silence. It is hella fun to be at 5%(blade of mercy) + 38% (primeval lyrium rune) + 50% (haste) + 50% (barrage) + 30% (fervor) speed though! You are attacking at 173% speed with all of these buffs, which is absolutely absurd!

The way I did the berserk build was to drop all talents in 2h completely, and instead pick up assail and besiege from vanguard along with the standard full berserk and reaver to fervor. My combo is cleave + barrage + assail and then autoattack everyone like crazy at 173% speed. It is very satisfying, and you can even throw in sacrificial frenzies to boost damage even more, and devour if your health drops too low. Very solid build, and lots of fun.

Bearbeitet von Sabresandiego, 20 März 2011 - 11:15 .


#68
AreleX

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Sabresandiego wrote...

I redid the Qun area at level 19 with all sorts of different talent combinations. Berserker/Reaver with barrage/fervor is the only build that was as fun to play as my vanguard build. It actually kills trash faster then my ultimate vanguard build, but is slightly weaker on bosses and also weaker against demons, mages, and assassins. You are much more likely to be killed as a berserker because of the lack of magic resistance from templar, 20% less damage resistance, and lack of crowd control from silence. It is hella fun to be at 5%(blade of mercy) + 38% (primeval lyrium rune) + 50% (haste) + 50% (barrage) + 30% (fervor) speed though! You are attacking at 173% speed with all of these buffs, which is absolutely absurd!

The way I did the berserk build was to drop all talents in 2h completely, and instead pick up assail and besiege from vanguard along with the standard full berserk and reaver to fervor. My combo is cleave + barrage + assail and then autoattack everyone like crazy at 173% speed. It is very satisfying, and you can even throw in sacrificial frenzies to boost damage even more, and devour if your health drops too low. Very solid build, and lots of fun.


That's a solid idea, dropping 2h actives entirely. What do you get out of Assail? I tried it, and at first glance, it wasn't worth much, but I didn't use it very long.

For a better time dealing with Elites, I have my party set to basic attack the trash I'm targeting, and only bring out the talents (Rhyming Triplet, Stonefist, etc) on the Elite I'm targeting. Throw in some Entropy debuffs, and they're as good as screwed. Stuff like:

Merrill
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: STAGGERED - Crushing Prison
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target of Hawke - Death Hex

Varric
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target of Hawke - Rhyming Triplet

This + Destroyer passive (Crit resistance cut in half) + Cleave = THE PAIN TRAIN IS COMIN'! WOO WOO!

:wizard:

#69
Merazaki

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AreleX wrote...


This + Destroyer passive (Crit resistance cut in half) + Cleave = THE PAIN TRAIN IS COMIN'! WOO WOO!

:wizard:


This comment is going to be my crit text in Dragon Age Legends for sure! This made this topic that much more Legendary!

#70
AreleX

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Stardusk78 wrote...

AreleX wrote...

Updated OP with a section on weapons to help you get the best gear available to you at each point in the game - check it out!

:wizard:


What is your opinion of prioritising Reaver talents over Beserker ones?


I wouldn't do it.

Devour can near full-heal you with only 1 point in it, and you don't need the stagger it gives you, because you should be doing plenty of staggering with your passives + normals + Cleave. I find Devour to be a nice skill, but not essential.

Aura of Pain seems absolutely useless. I've tried it now, and what it's purpose is supposed to be escapes me. You're going to be killing things faster than it could ever come close to making a difference, not to mention that you're taking damage on top of enemies hitting you while you're using Barrage (-20% damage resistance).

The best things about Reaver are the amazing passives (Fervor + Blood Frenzy) and Sacrificial Frenzy. The rest, I could live without.

Don't get me wrong, I think Reaver is awesome. The thing is, it works better as a side dish (to compliment Templar/Berserker) than the main course, because there just isn't enough to it.

:wizard:

Bearbeitet von AreleX, 20 März 2011 - 01:37 .


#71
Kazoot

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I discovered the devastation of this build yesterday without even looking at this topic lol. It's so amazing! Also, I've noticed that if you ever have stamina issues, you can deactivate Berserk immediately after Barrage is active. This way, you aren't wasting a massive amount of stamina in boss fights. Berserk will be available by the time Upgraded Barrage has worn off if you do it quickly enough. This little maneuver ensures that I never run out of stamina if there are critter level enemies around.

Bearbeitet von Kazoot, 20 März 2011 - 04:38 .


#72
ExcitedApathy

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I have a question regarding "+% healing to this character". Does Devour apply to this also? I am using Oath-Breaker (it has +23% Healing to this character), I'm about to hit level 14, and I can't decide if I want to change to The Brother's End and spec Templar as my next spec, or stay with Oath-Breaker and go Reaver (if Devour healing applies to +% healing). Any help is greatly appreciated.

#73
Ace Attorney

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To AreleX's request, here is a small rewrite on my concept for a Weapon and Shield Berserker that follows a the idea of the build here:

Berseker is a specialization that, at it's core, augments your auto attack damage. Despite what people think, a one handed weapon and a two handed weapon of equal quality do the same DPS by auto atacking, the 2 hander is just slower and does more per swing but DPS is actually even. Two handers only have a slight advantage on DPS burst (actual auto attack DPS is equal as stated), burn Berserk stamina slightly slower (attack swing is slower), and a bit wider arc and length (33% arc vs 25% and the +1m Talent). Since this type of build isn't about burst DPS, trading those advantages for Shield armor and their stats & extra runes is a valid trade off in my book.

So I propose the following, learned in that order:
http://biowarefans.c...p1l0T1EGIvHnpNL

Whenever you get an extra talent point, by either going beyond level 20 or getting Tomes / Elixirs, learn the following:
-Scatter first
-Upgrade Scatter, Assault, and Shield Bash
-Get the Weapon and Shield Passives
-Upgrade/learn other skills from the Vanguard, Berserker, and/or Reaver trees you like

This build should do good DPS, granted not as wide as a Two Hander, with the added ability to tank when needed by activating Shield Defense.

Bearbeitet von T3hAnubis, 20 März 2011 - 07:38 .


#74
Sabresandiego

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The only problem I have with this build is that you are essentially just an auto attack bot with hyper speed. Its pretty fun to play but for most of the game you are just watching your character whack away at things in a frenzy.

Assail + Besiege is actually the perfect compliment to this build, you should get rid of 2h talents completely. What assail + besiege does is triple your physical force, making you able to stunlock elite mobs with simple autoattacks, while at the same time it increases your AOE damage from autoattacks. Once you try it, you will love it. 

Bearbeitet von Sabresandiego, 20 März 2011 - 08:57 .


#75
AreleX

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That actually makes a lot more sense. In my mind, I read 'physical force' as being 'knockback', and was like 'well, that's pretty damn counter-productive.'

I'll give it a shot when I play again, thanks.

T3hAnubis wrote...

To AreleX's request, here is a small
rewrite on my concept for a Weapon and Shield Berserker that follows a
the idea of the build here:

Berseker is a specialization that, at it's core, augments your auto attack damage. Despite what people think, a one handed weapon and a two handed weapon of equal quality do the same DPS by auto atacking,
the 2 hander is just slower and does more per swing but DPS is actually
even. Two handers only have a slight advantage on DPS burst (actual
auto attack DPS is equal as stated), burn Berserk stamina slightly
slower (attack swing is slower), and a bit wider arc and length (33% arc
vs 25% and the +1m Talent). Since this type of build isn't about burst
DPS, trading those advantages for Shield armor and their stats &
extra runes is a valid trade off in my book.

So I propose the following, learned in that order:
http://biowarefans.c...p1l0T1EGIvHnpNL

Whenever you get an extra talent point, by either going beyond level 20 or getting Tomes / Elixirs, learn the following:
-Scatter first
-Upgrade Scatter, Assault, and Shield Bash
-Get the Weapon and Shield Passives
-Upgrade/learn other skills from the Vanguard, Berserker, and/or Reaver trees you like

This
build should do good DPS, granted not as wide as a Two Hander, with the
added ability to tank when needed by activating Shield Defense.


Awesome, I'll update the guide soon!

:wizard:

Bearbeitet von AreleX, 20 März 2011 - 09:07 .