734 réponses à ce sujet

[jsamlaw]

What do you use to stun mages Arelex? Do you simply just kite away from any aoe until the cast ends or do you have a backup stun ready to go?

[AreleX]

jsamlaw wrote...

What do you use to stun mages Arelex? Do you simply just kite away from any aoe until the cast ends or do you have a backup stun ready to go?

If you catch mages with a Scythe or Mighty Blow in the startup of their attacks, you'll interrupt them, then your party can go to work. Check the tactics:

Merrill
Self: Health >=50% - Activate: Blood of the First
Self: Health <50% - Deactivate: Blood of the First
Self: Any - Activate: Elemental Weapons
Self: Any - Activate: Rock Armor
Self: Health <25% - Use Potion
Self: Mana or Stamina <25% - Use: Lyrium Potion
Self: Being attacked by a melee attack - Mind Blast
Enemy: STAGGERED - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Crushing Prison
Enemy: STAGGERED - Chain Lightning
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Nearest visible rogue - Misdirection Hex
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target of Hawke - Hex of Torment
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target of Hawke - Horror
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target of Hawke - Stonefist
Enemy: Target of Hawke - Attack

Anders
Self: Any - Activate: Heroic Aura
Self: Any - Activate: Panacea
Self: Health < 25% - Use: Potion
Self: Mana or stamina <25% - Use Lyrium Potion
Enemy: Target of Hawke - Haste
Hawke: Health <25% - Heal
Self: At least two party members below 50% health - Aid Allies
Ally: Dead - Regroup
Ally: Being attacked by a ranged or magic attack - Glyph of Repulsion
Enemy: Target Rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Nearest visible rogue - Glyph of Paralysis
Enemy: Target Rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Nearest visible mage - Glyph of Paralysis
Hawke: Can't attack - Barrier
Self: Being attacked by a melee attack - Mind Blast
Enemy: Target of Hawke - Attack

Varric
Self: Health <25% - Use: Potion
Self: Mana or stamina <10% - Use: Stamina Draught
Self: Any - Activate: Bianca's Song
Self: Health <50% - Use current condition for next tactic
Anders: Any - Back-to-Back
Anders: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
Hawke: Any - Goad
Merrill - Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
Hawke: Any - Goad
Self: Being attacked by a melee or ranged attack - Use current condition for next tactic
Hawke: Any - Goad
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target of Hawke - Brand
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target of Hawke - Rhyming Triplet
Enemy: Target rank is Elite or higher - Use current condition for next tactic
Enemy: Target of Hawke - Pinning Shot
Enemy: Attacking Anders - Kickback
Enemy: Target of Hawke - Attack

You've got several ways to lock down mages: 2 from your party at any time you're engaging one, 1 any time an Elite mage drops in, 1 if a mage is attacking your party, and 2 more if you land a stagger on them, for a total of 6 possible ways. Check the Elite Lockdown video, this set of tactics allows you to completely neutralize any Elite enemy you come across. Horror for Merrill is AMAZING, and one of the best offensive support spells in the game.

Zhijn wrote...

Is Merril and Varric a must have? I just
did a normal game as a mage with Varric and Merril throughout. I wouldnt
mind trying a new cast, like maybe Anders, Isabella, and yeah probably
Merrill again!.

Tho it wont be nightmare, i will try "hard" this
time. So im just wondering if it can be done without Varrics range
goading =)

I suppose you could take Isabela if you're playing on Hard, where (I think?) there's no friendly fire, but be aware that her Friendship passive is bugged, and will LOWER YOUR ATTACK SPEED, which is pretty much the kiss of death for this build.

The companion selection I choose is pretty much set-in-stone as the best. You kind of have to take them, but it's not as if they're mediocre, and you're stuck with them; they synergize PERFECTLY with everything you need and aim to accomplish in this build.

-Stays out of your goddamn way? Check. Most of the time...some of the time?
-Buffs you up to increase your stats and attack speed + keep you healed? Check.
-Makes the most of your staggers for insane CCC damage? Check.
-Keeps threat directed your way so you can clear sections faster, and at less of a risk to your mages? Check.
-Locks up tough enemies and leaves them completely helpless for you to wail on? Check.
-No man-jaws? Check and check.

It may seem restrictive, but, to quote Joker, "This is my favorite 'YOU HAVE NO CHOICE!' choice ever".

Modifié par AreleX, 22 mars 2011 - 12:12 .

[AreleX]

For all you lowly sword & shield peasants (I love you guys), I've updated the OP with a section on a concept SnS variant of my build by T3hAnubis. Be mindful that it is just that - a concept, which should (in theory), match up to the original fairly well, while also offering some things it lacks. Check it out, test it out, let us know what you think of the trade-off!

[Thrakkemarn]

Ah good point about Massacre I never considered, that totally makes it worthwhile once you unlock Death Blow.

[Musou1776]

I was led to believe that Mind Blast was really bad in DA2, is that not the case? I see you recommend it for all mages.

Also, I believe on Anders you recommend Mindblast then Barrier and Arcane Fortress, but doesn't Arcane Fortress require 4 points in Arcane which Anders does not have?

And what is the big draw toward going into the Vengeance side of the Vengeance tree when you don't appear to have any tactics setup that utilize it?  Couldn't those points go into Primal to give Anders more punch?

Great guide so far.  I am playing with multiple builds up till middle of act 2 with or so because of all the bugs you can get hit with from there on and waiting for a patch.  Following your guide for the most part on my warrior playthrough.

Modifié par Musou1776, 22 mars 2011 - 07:58 .

[AreleX]

Musou1776 wrote...

I was led to believe that Mind Blast was really bad in DA2, is that not the case? I see you recommend it for all mages.

Also, I believe on Anders you recommend Mindblast then Barrier and Arcane Fortress, but doesn't Arcane Fortress require 4 points in Arcane which Anders does not have?

And what is the big draw toward going into the Vengeance side of the Vengeance tree when you don't appear to have any tactics setup that utilize it?  Couldn't those points go into Primal to give Anders more punch?

Great guide so far.  I am playing with multiple builds up till middle of act 2 with or so because of all the bugs you can get hit with from there on and waiting for a patch.  Following your guide for the most part on my warrior playthrough.

Arcane Fortress was listed by mistake, and I thought I removed it, I'll go back and do that now.

Mind Blast and Vengeance are prereq requirements for the skills I really want to get to:

-You need Mind Blast to get Merrill Crushing/Paralyzing Prison.
-You need Vengeance to get Anders Swift Justice (20% cooldown reduction).

My companion layout is built to be as such:

Anders is strictly a support mage. With Panacea active, he can't use attack spells anyways, so putting points into them serves no purpose, plus I want his mana to be free for support magic. Merrill and I basically wipe the floor with every enemy in the game, so another damage dealer (especially Anders) would not only be redundant, but wasteful, due to how many awesome support talents are Anders only.

Varric helps to regulate threat, redirecting it to me, and off of Merrill/Anders. He also does respectable damage in his own right, and lets you open chests/disarm traps.

Merrill is the other damage dealer of the group. Not only is she built like a goddamn tank (she takes backstabs better than I do, for christ's sake), but she clears the hell out of mobs off your staggers. With your speed boost, Sunder passive, and Cleave/Claymore, you will put up a very solid amount of staggers very quickly. Add to this the ability to, as I said above, lock down Elites almost by herself, and she is co-MVP of your team.

Hope this helps.

Modifié par AreleX, 22 mars 2011 - 08:13 .

[Musou1776]

Ah, OK. I suspected the passive cooldown was the reason, but wasn't sure.

My other play throughs are not so tactic intensive as this one, I find myself running low on tactic slots quite a bit right around level 10/11 when Merill and Varric actually start getting the ability to cross class combo and Anders starts being able to cast lots of CC/buffs and heals.

If I could have two wishes for DA3 it would be for better beta testing prior to release and more tactics slots so we could make even more complicated scripts.

It's a bummer you didn't get the SE.  My Gamestop was upgrading people to it for FREE at our midnight release.  Was there an issue at other places not having it at all or what?

Modifié par Musou1776, 22 mars 2011 - 08:24 .

[raziel1980]

Musou1776 wrote...

Ah, OK. I suspected the passive cooldown was the reason, but wasn't sure.

My other play throughs are not so tactic intensive as this one, I find myself running low on tactic slots quite a bit right around level 10/11 when Merill and Varric actually start getting the ability to cross class combo and Anders starts being able to cast lots of CC/buffs and heals.

If I could have two wishes for DA3 it would be for better beta testing prior to release and more tactics slots so we could make even more complicated scripts.

It's a bummer you didn't get the SE.  My Gamestop was upgrading people to it for FREE at our midnight release.  Was there an issue at other places not having it at all or what?

That was exactly the problem apparently...as their is like 4 or 5 different thread topics about it on the general discussion boards. I was lucky enough to get mine...so for someone like me who didn't play the demo... I can use a two hander like the might of sten instead of haydor's razor for chapter 1...and may I also make a slight recommendation for sword n shielders n us two handers alike to check out the black emporium atleast once a chapter...as their are a ton of awesome items( weapons, armor, n accessories) for this type of build( some will work well with saber's build as well).

[AreleX]

Musou1776 wrote...

Ah, OK. I suspected the passive cooldown was the reason, but wasn't sure.

My other play throughs are not so tactic intensive as this one, I find myself running low on tactic slots quite a bit right around level 10/11 when Merill and Varric actually start getting the ability to cross class combo and Anders starts being able to cast lots of CC/buffs and heals.

If I could have two wishes for DA3 it would be for better beta testing prior to release and more tactics slots so we could make even more complicated scripts.

For early-game tactics slots, make sure you prioritize your 'must-haves' over your 'nice to haves' until you get more. Must-haves are stuff like Varric's Goad tactics, Merrill's CCCs + Elemental Weps + Blood of the First, Anders Haste + Heal + Heroic Aura, etc.

Musou1776 wrote...

It's a bummer you didn't get the SE.  My Gamestop was upgrading people to it for FREE at our midnight release. Was there an issue at other places not having it at all or what?

Gamestop dicked me out of it. I preordered my game WELL before the cut-off, thinking everything's sunshine and  rainbows, then I go in to get the game, and they hand me the regular version. I'm standing there like 'WHAT THE **** IS THIS ****?'. I try to keep my nerd rages to a bare minimum, but I almost lost it. They could've at least let me know, so I could cancel the preorder and try somewhere else, but NOOOOO.

I hear if you say 'Gamestop' 3 times fast in the dark, a store manager steals your wallet and leaves a strategy guide in its place.

/rant

Someone donate an SE code for me.

Modifié par AreleX, 22 mars 2011 - 09:33 .

[Sabre4000]

PM sent to AreleX

[Pileyourbodies]

I've started to use this build and i'm wondering why not put any point into battlemaster? It gives a lot of stanima regeneration to make beserker more potent.

[Ace Attorney]

I tried the 2H version of the build on my lvl 9 Warrior file (as noted before, playing on Normal since I haven't finished DA2 yet). Was fun, just as fun as SnS. Still switching between that file and my Rogue (lvl 4 ATM) to see who will be my first run.
I enjoy both pretty equally which hinders my decision. Unlike some people, I enjoy Aveline as a companion, so using a non-warrior Hawke is fair game. My least favorite character is Anders and he is still passable (his acts as I hear on Act 3 and his actitude toward Merrill I am not fond of).

[jsamlaw]

Early game is night and day between 2H cleaving power and SnS. Late game I'm still tending to prefer 2H, but without a "tank" to hold some of the harder bosses it can be rough going (like monsterous cave spider at the end of Justice). Sadly immune to knockback doesn't stop its knock down in any way

[Shep309]

Those monstrous spiders give me the heebie jeebies. I've never been arachnophobic so i totally blame this game. Sort of like I never used to be scared of the dark until I started playing Doom 3. I STILL haven't been able to finish that game...

so very sad I am.

[AreleX]

Sabre4000 wrote...

PM sent to AreleX

Sabre4000 has been upgraded to bro-king status in my book. He did me a real solid, and sent me an SE code, when he completely didn't have to. I hereby dedicate the rest of the day's posts to him and his infinite elderly wisdom.

Pileyourbodies wrote...

I've started to use this build and
i'm wondering why not put any point into battlemaster? It gives a lot
of stanima regeneration to make beserker more potent.

I feel that with Massacre (and later Death Blow), points in Battlemaster are largely a waste (unless you plan on using Adrenaline, which is pretty meh), and will just keep you from getting to the things you really want earlier. Once you get to Act II, you will next to never have to drop out of Berserk.

Modifié par AreleX, 23 mars 2011 - 06:03 .

[Sabre4000]

No problem. Enjoy.

[Novadove]

warrior with great speed and great power is nice and satisfying. but it will not last in long endurance fight such as fighting the high dragon.

of course most build is able to kill high dragon. however, pausing or running away and U-turn back to dash hit isnt the most glorious way to be a tank. and i can feel this warrior build is most likely unable to withstand the various fortitude-effect abilities used by the enemies.

1 sec, stun kicks in, stun finished, you are about to use an ability, you got knocked back. just as you got back on your feet, you are being chewed by the dragon. and all this while, all you can do is depend on your party members to petrify or barrier you...

personally i feel this build is a "Warrior" build but no where near a true tank. a true tank stands on his ground like an invincible immobile fortress that thousand men cant shift him an inch!

no doubt dragon age 2 is designed to be able to play and tank with a 2H build.

but compare to 100% magic immune, 60%+ damage resist, 80% defense 80% armor, immune to everything and still able to hold monster aggro/hate is totally something else.

hawke rogue and isabella with ander and merill can kill anything faster than a 2h.

sorry not trying to bash your build but just feeling that as a tank, this guide is only selling a playstyle but not a true tank. it lacks the essence and spirit. end of the day, it is just a decision between defense or power for warrior. To have ultimate defense with killing power, or have killing power but without any defense is the dilemma.

anyway this is just my personal opinion. anyone is free to play their game in their own way.

not trying to bash but just pointing out my concern. please take this positively =)

[jsamlaw]

AreleX wrote...

I feel that with Massacre (and later Death Blow), points in Battlemaster are largely a waste (unless you plan on using Adrenaline, which is pretty meh), and will just keep you from getting to the things you really want earlier. Once you get to Act II, you will next to never have to drop out of Berserk.

While this is true for trash mobs, you don't get the benefit of Massacre or Death Blow against Bosses and, lets be honest, Bosses are about the only thing in this game that's difficult once you've reached end game.  I'm not advocating dropping either Massacre or Death Blow since wailing away on trash is one of the most enjoyable things about the Mach 5 build.  That being said, I don't think you can say the Battlemaster talents are a waste seeing as how its your primary form of stamina regen in boss fights (other than droughts).  I'm a big fan of the Battlemaster talents myself.  Second Wind and Last Push increase the uptime on your primary steroid ablities (Beserker Mode, Cleave, Sacrificial Fury and Barrage).  Also, when you've reached end game you're sacrifing very little to pick up the Battlemaster talents--things like Scythe and Giants Reach or defensive talents.  There's more than enough points to take all of the core Vanguard/Beserker/Reaver talents and still have 3-4 points to play with at level 20.


Just my .02

[jsamlaw]

Novadove wrote...

hawke rogue and isabella with ander and merill can kill anything faster than a 2h.

I would love to see a video on Nightmare mode of anyone you just listed killing faster than this 2h build.  Isabela is usually dead 75% of the time on Nightmare and Ander/Merill will do some nice spike damage with CCC but its not sustained damage like the Mach 5 build.  I'd be curious to see how a well played rogue does, but I imagine it would be a lot of positioning and setup and not faster overall (though possibly faster for 1 mob at a time).

Modifié par jsamlaw, 23 mars 2011 - 07:11 .

[HighlandBerserkr]

@novadove

I am using this build and I annihilate mobs LITTERALY in seconds, there are items that make you immune to stun , and i decimated the High Dragon without anyone coming even close to dying.

Modifié par HighlandBerserkr, 23 mars 2011 - 07:13 .

[Novadove]

@jsamlaw, sorry i am lazy to video tape down anything or even spend time to post links.
when i first playing nightmare, isabella die in less than 0.5 sec =P

after that, it's all about how to strategically allocate her talent point at each level up.

in act 1, with bethany and ander getting haste with casting 2 haste simultaneously is the key. 1 haste after another. 2ndly, keep zoning in and out to get the highest dagger in dark town sewer passage at night time is important. and lastly, the skill to write tactics to keep both you and isabella alive by bouncing around hate is important. if you can do it right, they are DEADLY.
of course i take it you know how to focus fire on 1 target with CC.

2nd act, with 1 haste, make sure everyone has to die within that haste's 10 sec. once 10 sec is gone, and more than 5 enemies alive, there is a moderate chance one memeber will die.
these are just some experience i had.

lastly, during decks on board, back stab, your character is sort of invincible and not subjected to being hit. so use them wisely!

@highlandberskr, yes, like i said, any build can do that. but the point is being knocked down, chewerd, stunned is just an ugly scene for a so-called "tank" =P

[Erlemar]

This is my variation with little improvements (imho) in the build:
http://biowarefans.c...xypNLteDlRFsEvH

27 ability points can be really earned.

[HippeusOmega]

@AreleX: Definitively gonna try out this build. Although may try to customize it for a SnS since i already did a TH warrior with the Isabella and Sebastian bug. God Bioware please fix that. Anyhow what is the rarity of the the Templar Armor Superior Issue in Act 2 Dissent? Although I have to admit i like TH a lot more in this game then the Mage and Rogue classes.

[Novadove]

superior issue body armor in dissent is quite rare. i got it once. all in all with reloads, i got before templar sword, gloves, boots with a total of 20 tries. it can be dropped by templar hunters and alriek
but it is not worth wasting the time to get because in act 3, just side with meredith can get u knight-templar regalia which is nicer and better =D

edit:alternatively, just keep running to docks shady merchant to get a lower version full set heavy issue.

Modifié par Novadove, 23 mars 2011 - 07:40 .

[AreleX]

Novadove wrote...

warrior with great speed and great power is nice and satisfying. but it will not last in long endurance fight such as fighting the high dragon.

of course most build is able to kill high dragon. however, pausing or running away and U-turn back to dash hit isnt the most glorious way to be a tank. and i can feel this warrior build is most likely unable to withstand the various fortitude-effect abilities used by the enemies.

1 sec, stun kicks in, stun finished, you are about to use an ability, you got knocked back. just as you got back on your feet, you are being chewed by the dragon. and all this while, all you can do is depend on your party members to petrify or barrier you...

personally i feel this build is a "Warrior" build but no where near a true tank. a true tank stands on his ground like an invincible immobile fortress that thousand men cant shift him an inch!

no doubt dragon age 2 is designed to be able to play and tank with a 2H build.

but compare to 100% magic immune, 60%+ damage resist, 80% defense 80% armor, immune to everything and still able to hold monster aggro/hate is totally something else.

hawke rogue and isabella with ander and merill can kill anything faster than a 2h.

sorry not trying to bash your build but just feeling that as a tank, this guide is only selling a playstyle but not a true tank. it lacks the essence and spirit. end of the day, it is just a decision between defense or power for warrior. To have ultimate defense with killing power, or have killing power but without any defense is the dilemma.

anyway this is just my personal opinion. anyone is free to play their game in their own way.

not trying to bash but just pointing out my concern. please take this positively =)

I've basically stated that you are a quasi-tank several times, so I don't really understand what you're trying to say. You aren't a tank in the traditional sense, that you can stand there and get beaten on all day, you're a tank in the sense that Varric brings the lambs to the slaughter, and you mow them down before they get the chance to hit ANYONE. Watch my videos and you'll see that trash, mid-rank, and elite enemies all fall the same to this build.

As for bosses, I've got a video of me killing the Rock Wraith in 4 minutes, and the Deep Roads Dragon in 3, so bosses are really a non-issue. The High Dragon is the single exception in the game (maybe the Arishok too), and takes a bit longer, but that's like saying a bullet-proof vest is a bad form of protection because it can't withstand a nuke.

I wholeheartedly agree that I can't fight some enemies face-up and go blow-for-blow with them, but the thing is, you're controlling the battlefield with finesse, speed, and power, not trading attacks with an enemy.

This is one of the reasons I implore people to get Scythe, because it's an amazing skill to get you out of a tight spot, and relocate yourself somewhere advantageous. Scythe shouldn't be used as a strictly damage skill, it's most effective when you use it for mobility and repositioning. Basic attacks keep you locked in place until the animation is done, but Scythe moves you forward, can interrupt enemy attacks, and gives you 100% mobility the second it's finished.

To sum it up, I still don't understand, because we're basically at the same conclusion: Mach-5 Massacre Vanguard is not a true tank. You're dominating and taking command of fights not because of suvivability, but because of the sheer speed you can put enemies down with.

jsamlaw wrote...

While this is true for trash mobs, you don't get the benefit of Massacre or Death Blow against Bosses and, lets be honest, Bosses are about the only thing in this game that's difficult once you've reached end game.  I'm not advocating dropping either Massacre or Death Blow since wailing away on trash is one of the most enjoyable things about the Mach 5 build.  That being said, I don't think you can say the Battlemaster talents are a waste seeing as how its your primary form of stamina regen in boss fights (other than droughts).  I'm a big fan of the Battlemaster talents myself.  Second Wind and Last Push increase the uptime on your primary steroid ablities (Beserker Mode, Cleave, Sacrificial Fury and Barrage).  Also, when you've reached end game you're sacrifing very ittle to pick up the Battlemaster talents--things like Scythe and Giants Reach or defensive talents.  There's more than enough points to take all of the core Vanguard/Beserker/Reaver talents and still have 3-4 points to play with at level 20.


Just my .02

All true. I really need to sit down and lay out the ability investments section, because I only listed the absolute must-haves for time (I'd already spent 3 hours initially writing the guide after 40 of no sleep, so I just wanted to post it and take a nap ).

Modifié par AreleX, 23 mars 2011 - 08:14 .