136 réponses à ce sujet

[DrGulag]

If you lived in Thedas as a normal civilian?

-Most people believe mages corrupted the Golden City, created the blight and almost doomed the entire world.

-Tevinter Imperium is a testament to what happens if mages are allowed the freedom to pursue their own goals. I'd prefer living under people like Meredith if the alternative was Magisters. 

-Most of the apostates seem to use blood magic and end up killing random people just to satisfy some random fade demon. And even decent mages can be possessed by a demon without any warning.

It takes one second to turn a person from..

"Hi mom just got back from the...."

to

"HUARGH! Vastly superior to humans, suffer woman!"

Just look at what happened in RedCliffe village. Connor, a young boy, turned the whole place upside down and if your warden didn't offer his/her help almost everyone died.

-After Dragon Age 2 it seems that the Circle of Magi have rebelled and the Chantry is in chaos. I would assume that normal people are scared sh**less. If Kirkwall is anything to go by, blood mages, abominations and other monsters are probably killing people everywhere.

I don't see a happy ending in Dragon Age 3 (or in an earlier expansion).

Modifié par DrGulag, 17 mars 2011 - 08:43 .

[Vilegrim]

No, kill them if there must be a reckoning, tranquility is to cruel a punishment.

[Lithuasil]

Largely depends on whether you're mundane, or you're a mage or have any close friends/relatives that are. Depending on that, it's either perfectly desirable or the cruelest thing to happen since the first blight - which makes this one of the most interesting conflicts in gaming history

[hakwea]

If I met anders or fenris I'd probably say yes. Otherwise, as a normal thedas resident I'd likely think "If they haven't hurt me who cares".

[AlexXIV]

Depends what I'd know about it. If the Chantry just told me they were stripped of their magic then I would say ok, people too dangerous are getting stripped of their magic, sounds reasonable.

But after what I know after playing through 2 games with expansions and dlcs I must say no way. The tranquil lose their personality, they are not who they were before. They are slaves without knowing and remembering the most important things in their life. And most importantly they lose any emotion. That's not acceptable on any level. It is just another kind of death. Maybe even worse than death.

And it is probably an insult to the Maker if there is one. He didn't make humans the way he did just to have someone cripple them in His name. That's probably one of the reasons the Maker does not return anyway. If He ever returns then you better not be someone who defiled His creation.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 17 mars 2011 - 08:50 .

[NeoGamer]

i think a happy ending is a far ways off for now lol. I'm sorta sad i was forced to support either the templars or the mages with no way of compromise since both had really good points but i guess thats what bioware wanted. I wouldn't go as far as making all mages tranquils simply for being what they are because that wouldn't make any sense. Being punished to a life without feelings, without joy, happiness, and the human comfort that friends bring? I wouldn't wish that on anyone. That said, if a malificar (and NOT just an apostate) has shown to be a threat to people around him/her, purposely inflicting harm upon them, than they could choose: death or get turned into a tranquil.

[DrGulag]

hakwea wrote...

If I met anders or fenris I'd probably say yes. Otherwise, as a normal thedas resident I'd likely think "If they haven't hurt me who cares".

But now the Circle of Magi have rebelled and I would suspect things are rather chaotic.

I wonder how things are in Starkhaven and Denerim for example. A peaceful demonstration without any violence or rivers of blood and : 

Blood mages chilling
Shades killing
Abominations devouring

Modifié par DrGulag, 17 mars 2011 - 08:49 .

[RolandX9]

Sure, I might support the "Tranquil Solution" if I was an ignoramus. I might also support alienages, or Project Wideawake in the Marvel Universe, if I was raised to be a kneejerk bigot.

Tranquility is pretty much worse than death. It's an obscenity. Most mages would rather die. I would. It's just a vile way of covering up what kind of "solution" this really is -- a permanent one.

[Pileyourbodies]

Sadly I think i would support the tranquil solution. It is far far different from the Final solution that it is meant to remind people of. If i was a mundane citizen and these people could melt me with their minds but we can cut off their ability to do this I would say do it.

If i was Hawke who met a guy who was a tranquil and when he gained back his connection to the fade he hated it I would not support the tranquil solution.

If i was the warden whom met several tranquil who seemed happy and the mages we met said the tranquil seemed happy enough I'd support it.

[Arppis]

I always try to understand the other side of the deal. No matter what. I work as a nurse in a detoxification clinic(that the right word? English isn't my primary languange). I have to see people as a whole and see the reasons behind their behauviour to be able to do my job well. I don't think I would condemn mages outright. It would be easy sollution, but I wouldn't support it.

[fluorine7]

On a principle level, I'd say no. It is against human rights.

But on a practical level, what other ways for normal people to keep mages under control? They're constantly facing temptation from the fade demons. And we have to rely on mage's personal moral and principle to resist such danger. one weak moment, the mage could be processed and then turn into an abomination.

Made tranquil is not the solution, we can't make mages tranquil just because their magical ability. But there's had to be a better way to give mages some freedom and at the same time protect the rest of the normal people.

[DrGulag]

RolandX9 wrote...

Sure, I might support the "Tranquil Solution" if I was an ignoramus. I might also support alienages, or Project Wideawake in the Marvel Universe, if I was raised to be a kneejerk bigot.

Tranquility is pretty much worse than death. It's an obscenity. Most mages would rather die. I would. It's just a vile way of covering up what kind of "solution" this really is -- a permanent one.

I think there's a big difference though.

The elves have been through a lot. Wars and religious persecution. A lot of bad stuff has happened but they are not a threat to anyone at the moment.

Mages are basically walking nuclear devices that can go off at any second.

Being a tranquil is a horrible fate but what is the best option for the society as a whole? If the mages refuse to live in Circles, then what?

Modifié par DrGulag, 17 mars 2011 - 08:58 .

[Shad0w Demon666]

If they cant control there magic then yes just kill them most blood mages cant control the power but people like hawke and the gray warden and meril can control there power and arent a moron making deals with demons and geting f*** up in the end

[CRISIS1717]

I think the Circle Tower had the right idea with only mages and templars together in one community. It would be good if they could form their own island nation or live in another area away from human villages.

[RolandX9]

DrGulag wrote...

RolandX9 wrote...

Sure, I might support the "Tranquil Solution" if I was an ignoramus. I might also support alienages, or Project Wideawake in the Marvel Universe, if I was raised to be a kneejerk bigot.

Tranquility is pretty much worse than death. It's an obscenity. Most mages would rather die. I would. It's just a vile way of covering up what kind of "solution" this really is -- a permanent one.

I think there's a big difference though.

The elves have been through a lot. Wars and religious persecution. A lot of bad stuff has happened but they are not a threat to anyone at the moment.

Mages are basically walking nuclear devices that can go off at any second.

1: Who had magic first, again? 2: Is genocide any prettier when the victims have optic blasts or lightning spells? 3: How different is a mage with Tempest and a Rogue with Rain of Arrows? Any sufficiently advanced PC is as dangerous as a mage.

So morally? The only difference is that Tranquility is a far worse fate.

(Oh, and apparently the elves don't usually turn into abominations among the Dalish. Just sayin'.) 

[DrGulag]

It's not genocide though Cutting them off from the spirit world renders them emotionless which is horrible but they are still alive.

But what is the realistic option here?

The Circle of Magi have rebelled, they refuse to live under close scrutiny. So what gives?

Modifié par DrGulag, 17 mars 2011 - 09:06 .

[Pileyourbodies]

They think mages should be free to do whatever they want Gulag.

[DrGulag]

I think the Circle Tower had the right idea with only mages and templars
together in one community. It would be good if they could form their
own island nation or live in another area away from human villages.

Isn't that what happens in the Tevinter Imperium. Mages rule over there but use slave trade to bring in more humans....used as cattle in blood magic?

I had a lot of sympathy for magic practitioners in Dragon Age : Origins. Suffice to say Bioware put an end to that lol.

Modifié par DrGulag, 17 mars 2011 - 09:07 .

[fluorine7]

Well, a rouge might be as dangerous as mage, but a rouge generally don't get nearly as much mandatory "demon communication" as mages.

It's like drunk driving, sure it is possible for all of us to get drunk and drive and kill someone, but a normal person could say no to drinking and no to driving. But a mage is recovery alcoholic with a open bottle at his side and he's constantly driving a tank.

[Vilegrim]

Pileyourbodies wrote...

They think mages should be free to do whatever they want Gulag.

What ever they want? No. But they should be as free as anyone else, prosecuted for there own actions, not imprisoned for life on maybes.

[EricHVela]

Not like a recovering alcoholic. Mages are forced into a situation without an initial choice. They are 100% blameless for what they are. We could get into some REALLY touchy scenarios regarding people born a certain way, but I will leave it at that.

Still when we are shown the horrors of one who has been Tranquil and released momentarily, the 'solution' seems much less appetizing when whimsically inflicted on those who have done no harm.

[fluorine7]

I'm terribly sorry for using that recovery alcoholic comparison. I didn't meant to offend anyone. I wasn't thinking when I wrote it. Sorry~

And yes, Mages doesn't have a choice. Their connection with the fade is mandatory. But that doesn't mean they're not dangerous, and they shouldn't be controlled. I just don't trust "human integrity" as the only defense against demons.

Yes Death is bad, tranquil is worse. But what about those people who get killed by abomination? what about the mages who actively seeking demons for more power? what about mages who practice blood magic using human sacrifice? When we worried about one mage's personal struggle, what's the bleeding heart for all the people who suffer from magic?

[Vilegrim]

fluorine7 wrote...

I'm terribly sorry for using that recovery alcoholic comparison. I didn't meant to offend anyone. I wasn't thinking when I wrote it. Sorry~

And yes, Mages doesn't have a choice. Their connection with the fade is mandatory. But that doesn't mean they're not dangerous, and they shouldn't be controlled. I just don't trust "human integrity" as the only defense against demons.

Yes Death is bad, tranquil is worse. But what about those people who get killed by abomination? what about the mages who actively seeking demons for more power? what about mages who practice blood magic using human sacrifice? When we worried about one mage's personal struggle, what's the bleeding heart for all the people who suffer from magic?

then kill  them as children.  Seriously, that is better than tranquility or the circle. 

[DrGulag]

What ever they want? No. But they should be as free as anyone else, prosecuted for there own actions, not imprisoned for life on maybes.

Would you extend those rights to a person who wouldn't hurt a fly but could potentially explode at any second like a nuclear bomb. Have a couple of hundred citizens like these living in the same city, no problemo?

They want their human rights and using powerful sedatives is the only way (short of murder) to remove the threat of explosion.

Thedas is a mess.

Modifié par DrGulag, 17 mars 2011 - 09:26 .

[Lithuasil]

DrGulag wrote... 

Thedas is a mess.

And we wouldn't want it any other way