136 réponses à ce sujet

[MorningBird]

DrGulag wrote...
Good arguments but....

The templars are basically soldiers and ruthless, because that is their purpose. To be able to kill a mage efficiently if something goes wrong.

I do not disagree with this, however, I said as much in my post, if you care to re-read:

"THESE are the reasons mages rebel against 'the system', because the system, while it needs to be brutal in some areas, is needlessly brutal in others."

I GET that the templars are a military force.  They need to be, in order to slay abominations and demons and blood mages.

HOWEVER, that is (supposedly) only ONE of their many functions, and not ALL of those fuctions are military.  They excel as a military force, and fail in the other areas.

DrGulag wrote...
People do not trust the mages since almost everyone believes magic practitioners created the blight, corrupted heaven and now the Maker has left his children. It is seen as a disease, the reason why everything has gone down the toilet and people are suffering. Dwarves probably agree, constantly fighting for their own survival against hordes of darkspawn.

We actually get every indication that the dwarves DON'T agree.  Dwarves don't believe in the Maker.  They don't share in the fears of 'top-siders'.  They admit that they have no idea where the darkspawn came from or how they originated, and if you help Dagna, they even allow a circle to be started in Orzammar (templar free.)

DrGulag wrote...
Magic hasn't really given anything positive to people of Thedas and as a result people are caged inside the Circles.

It's probably a human thing. Magic and humans don't mix well. The elves had it pretty good with Arlathan. Immortality , peace and all that.

We must be playing very different games.  Magic has many positives.  Heck, if you sign up with the mercenaries in DA2, they specifically say they were only interested in the Hawke's because Hawke/Bethany was a mage.  Anders used his abilities to aid Ferelden refugees in Darktown free of charge.

I'd say more, but someone else already has on this point.

DrGulag wrote...
It wasn't Isolde's fault since she was just trying to protect the boy.

Protect him from what?

DrGulag wrote...
It was magic that caused the tragedy. No more, no less.

Please read the full post, as I clearly state why/how it's Isolde's fault.

Modifié par MorningBird, 18 mars 2011 - 05:55 .

[Zenstrive]

I am a normal citizen in Kirkwall and I got my house burnt down because a mage threw firestorm to kill a mage that slit its wrist and turned ugly. I will curse mages. But when I see a neighbour's cheerful son turned into emotionless puppets, I feel pity for them. So I will ask the Viscount to order the Templars and The Chantry to open what are they doing exactly with the mages.

[Raiil]

Hard to blame Isolde? I do it with gusto, and without breaking a sweat. She was trying to keep her baby boy home, because there's a system in place that rips innocent children away from their parents. It was not magic that caused the tragedy. If you want the true culprit, you're looking at Loghain for poisoning Eamon, and then Isolde for not ensuring the boy had proper training, and the Theodosian civilisation for creating a system in which mothers will expose their children to extra danger for fear of losing them. Magic was the tool that caused the destruction, but not the impetus that caused it.

[DrGulag]

We must be playing very different games. Magic has many positives. Heck, if you sign up with the mercenaries in DA2, they specifically say they were only interested in the Hawke's because Hawke/Bethany was a mage. Anders used his abilities to aid Ferelden refugees in Darktown free of charge.

Yeah I do agree. I should have written "a lot of" instead of "anything".

It helped protecting against the Qunari invasion and can be used in medicine. But people of Thedas generally have a pretty negative view when it comes to magic.

[Zenstrive]

DrGulag wrote...

Convert to the Qun. I'd rather take my chances with their Samurai-like honor system than do my grocery shopping with abominations walking about.

You will be nothing in The Qun. Because in truth you seek the Qun not to become something, but to avoid your very existence. You will come less than dead bodies of Qunari, because they serve as reminder that there are swords need melt and reforged.

[Raiil]

DrGulag wrote...

We must be playing very different games. Magic has many positives. Heck, if you sign up with the mercenaries in DA2, they specifically say they were only interested in the Hawke's because Hawke/Bethany was a mage. Anders used his abilities to aid Ferelden refugees in Darktown free of charge.

Yeah I do agree. I should have written "a lot of" instead of "anything".

It helped protecting against the Qunari invasion and can be used in medicine. But people of Thedas generally have a pretty negative view when it comes to magic.

So because other people have a negative view- reinforced by the system that helped mould it into its current form- we should keep them nailed to the tower floors?

Maybe we should just ensure that no elves ever leave Alienages and make something of themselves, because, you know, a lot of people think they aren't worthy of respect and trust worthy.

[DrGulag]

So because other people have a negative view- reinforced by the system that helped mould it into its current form- we should keep them nailed to the tower floors?

It's about balance between safety and personal freedoms. I wouldn't want to live in close proximity to a mage in Thedas. I think they are a constant danger and can possibly doom the entire world if a powerful enough demon is able to make the trip from fade.

Not that my life expectancy would be that high anyway. Qunari, the blight, rebelling mages, Flemeth, dragons, bandits, constant wars between different nations etc. A lot of reasons to be miserable.

Modifié par DrGulag, 18 mars 2011 - 06:24 .

[Raiil]

DrGulag wrote...

So because other people have a negative view- reinforced by the system that helped mould it into its current form- we should keep them nailed to the tower floors?

It's about balance between safety and personal freedoms. I wouldn't want to live in close proximity to a mage in Thedas. I think they are dangerous and can doom the entire world if a powerful enough demon is able to possess one.

Not that my life expectancy would be that high anyway. Qunari, the blight, rebelling mages, Flemeth, dragons, bandits, constant wars between different nations etc.

At the same time I would sympathise with the elves and probably

So it's totally cool to jail people before they do something bad, because they might do something bad? Well, let's lock up every person in game who has any skill with a sword- you might get decapitaed- or archers- you could put someone's eye out!- and oh, hey, lock up templars, holy smite can hurt anyone and we wouldn't want people getting hurt, now would we?

[specter7237]

Regular humans in Thedas cause plenty of atrocities and death without the need for magic. When a king declares war on another nation, he dooms more people than probably any mage ever did, exempting the Tevinters who caused the first blight. The Exalted Marches on the Dalish basically crushed an entire civilization, started by the chantry! Just think how many elves die each day in the alienages due to horrible living conditions. Orlais enslaved Ferelden for a century, and I'm sure lots of people died in that conflict.

None-mages are quite capable of causing destruction on their own.

[TysonL87]

i would i hate emo anders. i love how your brother always trash talks him

[_Aine_]

Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Repression of mages WILL make them eventually struggle to free themselves, and yes, the very act of repression will make at least some of them to consider taking elaborate and sinister methods of exacting their freedoms again. That same repression is why some of the elves were willing to give themselves to the Qun. They would be recognized for what they could offer, not what they were born. Which is actually why I found the Qunari view of magic so puzzling. If I could ever imagine a people who would want to harness a power for its power alone, it would be the Qunari... I thought anyway. Different groups have polarized into almost caricatures of their DA:O self though, which I am trying to tell myself is Varric's doing, that story-teller with his exaggerations!

Look at the Qun. They considered simple speech for mages dangerous, so cut out their tongues. Where does caution safely end then for Kirkwall and Thedas if mages are only/mostly a danger? Starting to regulate genetic differences into safe and not-safe, normal and abnormal starts to border on exactly that which they fear and, almost genocide.

Modifié par shantisands, 18 mars 2011 - 01:45 .

[barryl89]

I get the not all mages are alike argument.

In Origins we have mages who refuse to give into the pride demon and are forced into it. It was one powerful mage who doomed the entire tower to annulment and worse if the warden had not come when he did it might have been the templars dead. Then you would have an army of abominations lead by a pride demon advancing on denerim as well as the blight. All of Ferelden would have fallen even if the archdemon was slain.

From a gamer perspective. I want to see a pride demon go up against an Archdemon with armies of darkspawn and abominations clashing. That would be cooool.


The Templars have to guard the world from the Uldred's and the Orsino's, and if that means coralling the Irving's as well, it is sadly necessary.