187 réponses à ce sujet

[Justin2k]

So, some of you are going to think this is awful, and I understand that, but lets look at this from a business point of view.

By Repercussions, I do not neccessarily mean being fired, but being demoted, being taken off of the franchise, bringing in other people over their heads to supervise them whatever.

In all walks of life, if you fail in your job, there are repercussions.  If the business gets bad or negative publicity, heads roll.  If takings are down heads roll.  If you don't live up to standards and expectations of the company and the consumer, heads roll.

While takings may not be down for Dragon Age 2, they certainly will be for Dragon Age 3 and possibly even ME3 as a result of this gratingly average effort they have put out.

Personally I think Laidlaw should be taken off of DA3, or at least have someone come in who is in touch with the playerbase and fans overseeing him.  Your thoughts?

[Vicious]

No, because I liked DA2.

And your dislike of the game gives you no right to 'head hunt' and name people you don't even know.

[Kevin Lynch]

The bottom line is going to be whether it makes money (i.e. profit) and how much. Business decisions aren't often made by popular opinion, fortunately.

[TelexFerra]

Absolutely not. The development team was not the problem. Had they been given a proper amount of time by EA OUR BENEVOLENT EA FRIENDS then they would have produced a great game. The sub par product we all have is the result of greed driven rushing gentle nudging.

[Eventide]

I just want to know who's idea it was to recycle all those maps and make enemies appear out of thin air. Freaking horrible.

[Morning808]

No since they design really good too. Elfs need redesigning and the city too but they did a great job with the Qunari and humans, and the character creation is a lot better then the first

[Dsurian]

See, it was the whole effort behind pre-orders...they didn't have to take parts out of the game and then sell them as bonus DLC, but they did, apparently so that a sub-par, rushed, broken game would sell. It obviously worked extremely well from a business perspective. The trick is, will they be able to pull it off twice?...

As far as repurcussions?  Hell, those who rushed it so fast will likely get bonus' thanks to us (us = the fans)...

Modifié par Dsurian, 17 mars 2011 - 09:27 .

[Justin2k]

Kevin Lynch wrote...

The bottom line is going to be whether it makes money (i.e. profit) and how much. Business decisions aren't often made by popular opinion, fortunately.

But the problem with that is, many of the people voicing their dislike for DA2 bought the game.  We bought it due to Biowares previous reputation, due to the quality of the prequel etc etc.

I have no doubt DA2 will sell well.  But future sales will be hit by this I think.  I already know 2 people who cancelled their ME3 pre-order for instance.  Will buy it if it's good, but the companys reputation and possible future profit has been hit by DA2 not living up to expectations.

Modifié par Justin2k, 17 mars 2011 - 09:28 .

[Nightnight]

Kevin Lynch wrote...

The bottom line is going to be whether it makes money (i.e. profit) and how much. Business decisions aren't often made by popular opinion, fortunately.

Agreed, and who are we to say what is popular? The forum only has a handful of people comparing to the number of gamers worldwide.

Modifié par Nightnight, 17 mars 2011 - 09:27 .

[Icinix]

Changing a team could end up leading to a very different outcome for the future. The people who put their blood sweat and tears into Dragon Age are going to know inside out what plans they had and didn't use, what plans they would like to try in the future and in a few months they'll have a very clear understanding of what they did do that didn't work and what people liked and didn't like.

I love DA2, and enjoyed it more than a lot of games in recent memory, but in my mind..there is only one thing that DA2 is guilty of...aiming to low. So EA and BioWare, let the team aim high for DA3.

[Otterwarden]

Kevin Lynch wrote...

The bottom line is going to be whether it makes money (i.e. profit) and how much. Business decisions aren't often made by popular opinion, fortunately.

One would hope they aren't only made based on profit as well.  Reduce COGS significantly at the expense of a superior product and you will have AWESOME profits.  Sustainability?

Do agree that it will come down to whether this model is bankable. 

[Nokternul]

Game development and design is already an intensely competitive profession, even before irrational calls for repercussions from fans with entirely subjective preferences that do not necessarily fall in line with what the majority of customers actually prefer.

[Hiei987]

Justin2k wrote...

Kevin Lynch wrote...

The bottom line is going to be whether it makes money (i.e. profit) and how much. Business decisions aren't often made by popular opinion, fortunately.

But the problem with that is, many of the people voicing their dislike for DA2 bought the game.  We bought it due to Biowares previous reputation, due to the quality of the prequel etc etc.

I have no doubt DA2 will sell well.  But future sales will be hit by this I think.  I already know 2 people who cancelled their ME3 pre-order for instance.  Will buy it if it's good, but the companys reputation and possible future profit has been hit by DA2 not living up to expectations.

Many is a loose term. If the game sells better than DAO it means it gained more fans than it lost, which is ultimately the goal of any sequel. User reviews will always be more about complaining than praising a game, because those who like it don't feel the need to come to the forums and express their views. DA2 may have taken a few steps back from DAO in some areas, but overall it has done well to transition the series to the modern style RPG genre.

[Duncan Anderson]

No, not unless we are trying to discorage being awsome now. Is that a thing we're doing?

[Krissy920]

I dont think anyone would get into any trouble with the kind of sales this game already has. I do personally ( i am biased) feel that if they added in what they removed from dao ( companion interactions at all times of the game) they would get higher sales then they already are.

[WoooDoggie]

I think after reading a few articles the blame sits solely with the few at the top of the food chain. The programmers themselves did fine. The Testers need to be tarred and feathered for letting so much slip through.

But after reading Mike Laidlaws defense article and

http://articles.nyda...-mass-effect-dn

I think him and Gaider have got to go. It seems like they had the most input and the more they speak the more clueless they sound.

Modifié par WoooDoggie, 17 mars 2011 - 09:46 .

[Icinix]

DSerpa wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

 I already know 2 people who cancelled their ME3 pre-order for instance. 

Good for you? If "the people you know" cancelled their ME3 pre-order because of Dragon Age II, then they're idiots for failing to realize that the two games have different budgets, different teams, different goals, and different deadlines.

..but they did use the same drinking animation! 

[CRISIS1717]

I think they should cut loose Mike Laidlaw and some of the other designers as well. In the short term they will certainly see the profits but if they want this to be a franchise that lasts I believe the cut backs that we have now and the ones we will see in future will hamstring the franchise and there will be a steady decrease of sales after each release.

[Duncan Anderson]

Icinix wrote...

DSerpa wrote...

Justin2k wrote...

 I already know 2 people who cancelled their ME3 pre-order for instance. 

Good for you? If "the people you know" cancelled their ME3 pre-order because of Dragon Age II, then they're idiots for failing to realize that the two games have different budgets, different teams, different goals, and different deadlines.

..but they did use the same drinking animation! 

Ther you see, that's practicly a crossover.

[Bobs22]

This game didn't need much to make it enjoyable.

- Allow us to fully kit our crew. It's very frustrating to see all this new gear and just selling it. Just a terrible design decision. Their argument that it saves players spending time in the inventory...who cares. No one is forcing newbie players to do that. Let us choose, why take away the choice.
- More maps. Waaay too many maps are reused
- Tactical battle view. I don't even understand why this was removed.
- Get us out of the city from time to time. No the Wounded Coast x50 doesn't count.
- Make the combat more tactical. Not just spamming spells.
- Stop trying to appeal to everyone and stick to the old formula that has worked for Bioware so well.

None of these would take an age to implement. They were rushed and therefore made some poor design choices. THe game isn't beyond redemption though. DA3 can still be epic if they are given more time.

Modifié par Bobs22, 17 mars 2011 - 09:59 .

[durasteel]

Warden Commander Cousland and Hawke, the Champion of Kirkwall both agree: this thread is ridiculous.

[Otterwarden]

WoooDoggie wrote...

I think after reading a few articles the blame sits solely with the few at the top of the food chain. The programmers themselves did fine. The Testers need to be tarred and feathered for letting so much slip through.

But after reading Mike Laidlaws defense article and

http://articles.nyda...-mass-effect-dn

I think him and Gaider have got to go. It seems like they had the most input and the more they speak the more clueless they sound.

Thanks for the link, that was an interesting read.  Can't agree with you though that he sounds clueless in this piece:


Gaider: The main thing to learn from "Dragon Age," it's a sort of lesson
in RPGs in general. To the hardcore RPG fan, they would shriek in
horror, but there are a lot of aspects for RPGs that make it a real
hurdle. You hit people with a lot of stats. For somebody who's already
played RPGs, it's a given. You don't worry about the barrier to entry.


There is a high barrier to entry in the genre, and that has undoubtedly got to be the greatest marketing challenge for any team trying to expand its base.  Clearly they are tinkering with the formula trying to come up with something that is not only palatable, but enjoyable for everyone.  Would prefer that they take their time and design a product with a built in option to scale up or down the nerdie RPG elements, but they made the call to Dragon Effect the game and we will see how it is received.  From this article, however, it is evident to me that they knew they were taking a big risk.  Messing with ME1 was one thing, doing this with their flagship RPG game is quite another.

[Romantiq]

They shouldnt face nothing. They've got the right idea (and as long as they are reading feedback in regards to issues we discovered in DA2) and they will try harder next time (hopefully). Don't think we don't notice all these shortcuts that you take Bioware

Modifié par Romantiq, 17 mars 2011 - 10:00 .

[CRISIS1717]

Mike Laidlaw and David Gaider seem to be the guys behind it the awful state of the game.

I'm not sure I'll even bother preordering DA3 and wait till reviews come in.