187 réponses à ce sujet

[Bathead]

ElectricPhase wrote...

My gut reaction, speaking as a programmer, is that this thread really sucks. To call out individuals and suggest that they deserve to be punished by their employer because you don't like a game you bought is....unspeakable.

(And for the record: I hated the DA2 demo, and will not buy the game.)

Agreed. This attitude is entirely selfish and uncalled for.

[MJRick]

distinguetraces wrote...

CRISIS1717 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
[something nice about David Gaider and Mike Laidlaw]

Do you work for Bioware?

Ignore Sylvius -- he's nothing but a blind, hero-worshipping fanboy with no critical standards who only ever says good things about Bioware games. It's kind of sickening how he sucks up to the devs and tells them everything they do is perfect and that he has no complaints.

I know how DARE he have his own opinion...

[CyberNinjaSensei]

We went from Robert Frost to Twilight in 100 years ....

Point of the century! Unfortunately, society has become one of whiners. I'm not far behind you in age (29) and totally agree with your point about generations.

Look, the game has it's flaws. Show me a game that DOESN'T have flaws and I'll show pics of me gettin' wild with Natalie Portman and Jessica Biel. Which, for those who have difficulty putting 2 and 2 together, means NON-EXISTENT. My point being, DA2 is in no way, shape, or form such drivel that people deserve to lose their jobs. Just as you would not appreciate your employer firing you over "internet muscle" forum posts. I'm sorry to tell you this, but not everything is made to keep you happy. I know, I know. It's a bitter potion, but the truth often is.

There a certain "games" and developers that deserve this type of criticism *coughAlphaProtocolcough* but not DA2, or Bioware, for that matter. The absolute biggest flaw is the problem with the Exiled Prince achievements. And sure, the repetition of caves is annoying. However, as you'll learn in the real world, there are flaws EVERYWHERE. So, take it for what it is, learn some patience, learn to adapt and a bit of humility wouldn't hurt, either.

Also, just for future reference, calling someone a troll, fat, stupid, idiot, etc. is NOT a take. Same as just saying something sucks or is bad is not a take. Please, for the sake of humanity, learn to put together constructive and intelligent discussions, including disagreements. But, this is the internet, where the intelligent are shown to be naive for thinking such things could happen. Ah well.

[zebrakeys]

Yes of course! Not everyone loved this game so throw them all into the street I say.

[StowyMcStowstow]

Wow. Just wow. How arrogant do you have to be to think you can dictate who should be fired, based on one game, which was pretty well done considering the time frame given to the DA2 dev team?

Holy hell people, grow up. No one deserves to be fired. Why? Because not only would that result in totally new people working on a game, people who have no clue what Dragon Age is about, but also in a totally different game.

The entirety of what's "wrong" with DA2 stems from the fact that it was rushed, a lot more than ME2, and given the same development time that DA: O got, DA2 would've been better.

As it stands, this thread is the epitome of the nerdrage that has been going on for, in my opinion, quite long enough.

[BiowarEA]

WoooDoggie wrote...

I think after reading a few articles the blame sits solely with the few at the top of the food chain. The programmers themselves did fine. The Testers need to be tarred and feathered for letting so much slip through.

But after reading Mike Laidlaws defense article and

http://articles.nyda...-mass-effect-dn

I think him and Gaider have got to go. It seems like they had the most input and the more they speak the more clueless they sound.

This! The hubris displayed by both has been disgusting to say the least, and I say this as someone who actually adored Gaider a long long long time ago (when he used be a lot less egoistical).

[BiowarEA]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Laidlaw was an LD alongside Knowles on Origins.

Wrong! Knowles was the LD, Laidlaw was one of the designers working "under" him.

[xsile]

Kevin Lynch wrote...

The bottom line is going to be whether it makes money (i.e. profit) and how much. Business decisions aren't often made by popular opinion, fortunately.

I have to agrees here, only because Bioware put out such a great game
with DA:O, so naturally DA2 will generate loads of $$$ based on how much DA:O
was loved.  Sadly folks will buy Da3 hoping that Bioware saw the error of
its ways an went back to the DA:O formula. When has that ever been the
case? 



As engaging as Da2's story is, it is still just a interactive movie. Not only has
the game play been dumbed down but even with hi-res graphics on very high, the games
graphics are not very complex. Most of the dimension of Da2 is matted on. You
can see this most in your armor as it appears apart of your skin and less as a
separate piece of armor. Da:o in this respect was much more complex. Companions
where much more complex in this respect also as they had as many options for
equipment as the main character.  Bottom
line is yes the game is fun somewhat engaging and as epic as an interactive
movie can be.  Is it as epic as DA:O? I.M.O
nowhere near. The main character choices limit its replay ability Vs DA:O which
to me makes this game allot less epic.

[BFBHLC]

Kevin Lynch wrote...

The bottom line is going to be whether it makes money (i.e. profit) and how much. Business decisions aren't often made by popular opinion, fortunately.

Mike Laidlaw wrote....

“The game mainly
sold on console, so we’re going that way of the audience,”

[Maria Caliban]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

I think I'm dead to sarcasm now. See, this one time, a few days ago... *frightened whisper* i agreed with vahe

It's like that episode of South Park, where Cartman saw the funniest thing ever and couldn't laugh any more. I just can't do sarcasm. And it's all Vahe's fault. Stupid Witcher 2 fanboy.

Who is vahe?

I've seen all of four episodes of South Park.

[addiction21]

BiowarEA wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Laidlaw was an LD alongside Knowles on Origins.

Wrong! Knowles was the LD, Laidlaw was one of the designers working "under" him.

Really? How about this credit list...

http://www.allgame.c...610&tab=credits

Not good enough how about these interviews with Lead Designer Mike Laidlaw

http://www.ps3attitu...on-age-opening/
http://www.g4tv.com/...gner-interview/
http://www.dailymoti...th-l_videogames

[Ymladdych]

Short answer to the OP's question: No.

As others have pointed out, DA2's major shortcomings are due to the dev team getting handed a crap sandwich from EA with regard to development time and probably other resources, too.

I think they did an AMAZING job in a situation where other teams would have completely folded.  In my opinion, the mechanical flaws (recycled maps; horrible camera angle where I have to fight blind more than I like) are incidental to the complex, nuanced characters and improved combat system.  I had to start a new DAO character to upload my Hawke avatar and almost cried at how bad it was in retrospect.

And as far as I'm concerned, the inventory "issue" doesn't exist.  Do I love RPG's with encumbrance and slot management?  Sure.  Am I going to say that it's a FLAW for a game not to have it?  Hell.  No.  That would be like me saying that ME3 will suck if it doesn't have planet scanning.  Jeez.  (And yes, that's really how petty I see some of the complaints.) 

Plus, like others have said, I dig the unique models for my companions, and as long as it keeps them alive and productive in their roles, then why should I care?  (Answer:  I don't.)  My only suggestion here would be for the devs to allow all dropped/purchased gear to be wearable by any Hawke class.  If someone wants to plant high magic/willpower boots on their warrior because they look cool...let them.

And for the record, simplified mechanics don't make a game "dumber" in a story-driven franchise, only the story can do that, and DA2 actually made the franchise smarter, IMO.  (Maybe even too smart for its own good.)

[Canadish]

As with most folks, I don't agree with the OP.

I was really let down by DA2, but all the flaws seemed a result of a lack of funds or development time. The game is drab and unpolished, with repeated environments, with meaningless railroaded choices (almost like...there was no time to program different outcomes ).
BUT
Beyond those problems, there was a diamond in the rough in the husk that DA2 was. There were some great concepts, that just did not have time to be fully realised.
I felt like I barely knew my companions by the end, despite having "10 years" for Hawke to develop a relationship. But there were some great ideas behind them!
Kirkwall was an empty and soulless city. The structure was nice enough, but it was so tiny, with repeated environments, and WAY to much grey stone.

These faults could have been solved with more tie for the devs to write more dialogue, build more city, add more god damn colour! Those jokes about Fereldan being brown fell flat when all we saw was "Kirkwall; City of the Grey".

I know the Dev team has talent.
I just suspect Bioware is being told to generate cash quickly to make up for The Old Republic money sink.

[Huntress]

[/quote]
I didn't mind my party having their own armor.  In a way, it gives them more independence and more personality.  In Origins, I couldn't bare to change Morrigan's armor. I just couldn't picture her in anything else.  And Wynne wearing Tevinter style robes?  Didn't seem to fit her at all.  And why would I be deciding what my companions wear anyways? Doesn't that kind of kill immersion?  Like the reused environments does?  =P 

Speaking of reused environments and maps....  This is brought up a lot, as well as BUGS.  I don't understand why people justify their 0/10 rating based on bugs, but praise BG2 as a 10/10 game.  BG2 was full of bugs... oh gosh, my first playthrough my Jaheira romance didn't even finish!  I had to download a patch and play the game over from the start to get the last half of the romance! lol[/quote]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So you left lily wearing chantry robes and 1 hand dagger, left alistair with level 2 mail set until you got back to Ostagar for the king's set , left Sten with comnuner cloth while wearing his level 3 sword..? If you changed nay of this character cloth's I think you should feel very bad.. right? they probably didn't want any other type armor and you forced them to wear them..<_<

Modifié par Huntress, 18 mars 2011 - 02:47 .

[philyburkhill]

Bioware games will always make money for now, and they know it. Thats why they have taken the mick with this title, people will buy it anyway. Projections seem to indicate it'll sell less than DA:O though, probably due to the PC sales that will no doubt plummet.

[AltitudeNYC]

Justin2k wrote...

So, some of you are going to think this is awful, and I understand that, but lets look at this from a business point of view.

By Repercussions, I do not neccessarily mean being fired, but being demoted, being taken off of the franchise, bringing in other people over their heads to supervise them whatever.

In all walks of life, if you fail in your job, there are repercussions.  If the business gets bad or negative publicity, heads roll.  If takings are down heads roll.  If you don't live up to standards and expectations of the company and the consumer, heads roll.

While takings may not be down for Dragon Age 2, they certainly will be for Dragon Age 3 and possibly even ME3 as a result of this gratingly average effort they have put out.

Personally I think Laidlaw should be taken off of DA3, or at least have someone come in who is in touch with the playerbase and fans overseeing him.  Your thoughts?

I think what you're saying is TOTAL CRAP.
This is great game, and with nearly 30 years under my belt, I'm certainly not an RPG novice.
The only thing that the team that made this game needs to do is keep up the good work.

[Grunk]

Hell yeah, OP! Since you dislike the game, the designers should be punished. They failed to please you!

I say we drag the dogs into the street and shoot them like the rabid coding mongrels they are.

And God help Bethesda if they don't come through for you. God help them all.

[johook213]

[quote]Huntress wrote...

[/quote]
I didn't mind my party having their own armor.  In a way, it gives them more independence and more personality.  In Origins, I couldn't bare to change Morrigan's armor. I just couldn't picture her in anything else.  And Wynne wearing Tevinter style robes?  Didn't seem to fit her at all.  And why would I be deciding what my companions wear anyways? Doesn't that kind of kill immersion?  Like the reused environments does?  =P 

Speaking of reused environments and maps....  This is brought up a lot, as well as BUGS.  I don't understand why people justify their 0/10 rating based on bugs, but praise BG2 as a 10/10 game.  BG2 was full of bugs... oh gosh, my first playthrough my Jaheira romance didn't even finish!  I had to download a patch and play the game over from the start to get the last half of the romance! lol[/quote]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So you left lily wearing chantry robes and 1 hand dagger, left alistair with level 2 mail set until you got back to Ostagar for the king's set , left Sten with comnuner cloth while wearing his level 3 sword..? If you changed nay of this character cloth's I think you should feel very bad.. right? they probably didn't want any other type armor and you forced them to wear them..<_<

[/quote]

No, I put Wynne in First Enchanter robes, and changed everyone else.  Morrigan i just couldn't change her armor until the robes of possession. lol.  But DA2 solves this for me! yay!  =P

[Persephone]

Bathead wrote...

ElectricPhase wrote...

My gut reaction, speaking as a programmer, is that this thread really sucks. To call out individuals and suggest that they deserve to be punished by their employer because you don't like a game you bought is....unspeakable.

(And for the record: I hated the DA2 demo, and will not buy the game.)

Agreed. This attitude is entirely selfish and uncalled for.

Bioware has a rather entitled, self absorbed "fanbase", me thinks.

[heronice1]

People need to understand that when a publisher ask a team of developers to create a game within x-amount of time with x-amount of budget, they cannot say no.

What will be created or proposed must passed the publisher expectation first before the project gets underway.

Bioware should not be blame for the rushed DA2.
I knew what DA2 was and is months before the game got released.

Modifié par heronice1, 18 mars 2011 - 03:17 .

[Tommy6860]

Justin2k wrote...

Kevin Lynch wrote...

The bottom line is going to be whether it makes money (i.e. profit) and how much. Business decisions aren't often made by popular opinion, fortunately.

But the problem with that is, many of the people voicing their dislike for DA2 bought the game.  We bought it due to Biowares previous reputation, due to the quality of the prequel etc etc.

I have no doubt DA2 will sell well.  But future sales will be hit by this I think.  I already know 2 people who cancelled their ME3 pre-order for instance.  Will buy it if it's good, but the companys reputation and possible future profit has been hit by DA2 not living up to expectations.

Good point! Though I really liked ME2, it was nothing in the epic feel of ME, but ti still had very good RPG elements proper to ME and the characters in ME2 were well thoght out and developed. But with DA2 being what it is, though I am seeing some sparks in the game that could make for a very good DA3 (if there is one), I am not going to fall for the ME3 "pre-order it now" and get this DLC included. I felt betrayed paying $60 for a PC version in advance, though the price didn't change from Sig Edition to oen I could just buy on release day. If that is what the price point is going to be, then there should be no caveat to some pre-order timeline to get some DLC already built into the game.

[Purple People Eater]

There are some people at EA that need to be fired, or at the very least told to shut their mouths when it comes to putting deadlines on a developer. Games like Dragon Age, need at least three years to cook. They dont need to be used as cash bait to fund other games, that game being The Old Republic.

[Tommy6860]

ElectricPhase wrote...

My gut reaction, speaking as a programmer, is that this thread really sucks. To call out individuals and suggest that they deserve to be punished by their employer because you don't like a game you bought is....unspeakable.

(And for the record: I hated the DA2 demo, and will not buy the game.)

I agree with that, even though I am sorely disapppointed with the game. It is jsut silly and childish to think that way. In any business, you live and die by sales, in spite of what some may or may not like about the products they buy from said business. Gamers (as being consumers) have a choice to buy the games, and if they don't like it, sell it quickly and don't buy from the publishers/deveopers of said games anymore and move on, that's what will impact business decisions. Sales demands will dictate what attitudes the company will apply to their products by profits. If sales are down on a second release compared to the first, then they know they did something wrong. If it sells better on the second try, then they are making money.

[17thknight]

Not really their fault that EA said "Ship the game. NOW."

[Narreneth]

haberman13 wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I want Laidlaw gone. Not necessarily outright sacked, but I don't want him calling the shots anymore.

As much as I despise DA2 I find this overboard, you don't know the man or his 'true' work (EA could have done this to Laidlaw).

Realistically DA2 is a success, its selling well and the console fans love it... mission accomplished.

The sad reality is us RPG-fans are a dying breed (literally, aging), and being replaced by the semi-retardedgamer CoD crowd (duh, they are THE market to breach).


The lesson I take from this: I'm now an old fuddy duddy (30) and Bioware no longer cares about me.

The sad lesson I take from this: much like my parents said "this generation is doomed and dumb", each generation that makes this call has been right so far.  We went from Robert Frost to Twilight in 100 years ....

Because Twilight is the only piece of creative writing that's been released in the past 20 years, right?  Get over yourself, you pretentious twit.