187 réponses à ce sujet

[lltoon]

This thread is freaking stupid.

You're calling out the design team to get fired because EA and Bioware squeezed unrealistic schedules on them to get stuff done in the shortest time frame possible. I feel sorry that the design team had to put up with EA rushing them, and then having to put up with the fans blaming them for not doing a good job.

They don't get the game done on time, they are called to get fired; they get the job done but the fans don't like it, they are still called to get fired. It's a lose/lose situation for them and while I think the game is a wreck of a game, I can sympathise with the design team as it's not entirely their fault. It's EA's fault pure and simple as that, and I call for EA to get 'fired'.

Modifié par lltoon, 18 mars 2011 - 04:24 .

[AltitudeNYC]

Purple People Eater wrote...

There are some people at EA that need to be fired, or at the very least told to shut their mouths when it comes to putting deadlines on a developer. Games like Dragon Age, need at least three years to cook. They dont need to be used as cash bait to fund other games, that game being The Old Republic.

I have to agree that EA is big problem in general.

However I most certainly do not agree it should be 3 years between each damn game. 

If Dragon Age II is what devs come up with in 1 and half years then KEEP DOING THAT Bioware. 

I want a Bioware game (or two) every year if I can get it.

Dragon Age II... I  freaking loved it

Modifié par AltitudeNYC, 18 mars 2011 - 04:38 .

[uberdowzen]

Justin2k wrote...

So, some of you are going to think this is awful, and I understand that, but lets look at this from a business point of view.

By Repercussions, I do not neccessarily mean being fired, but being demoted, being taken off of the franchise, bringing in other people over their heads to supervise them whatever.

In all walks of life, if you fail in your job, there are repercussions.  If the business gets bad or negative publicity, heads roll.  If takings are down heads roll.  If you don't live up to standards and expectations of the company and the consumer, heads roll.

While takings may not be down for Dragon Age 2, they certainly will be for Dragon Age 3 and possibly even ME3 as a result of this gratingly average effort they have put out.

Personally I think Laidlaw should be taken off of DA3, or at least have someone come in who is in touch with the playerbase and fans overseeing him.  Your thoughts?

No, for 2 reasons:

1) I'm really enjoying DA2 and I know I'm not alone in that. Just because some people don't like it (and to be honest no one knows how big that group is) doesn't mean that the dev team should be "punished".

2) It's art, if you start punishing people for trying new things you're just going to end up with "safe" Call of Duty clones.

[SirGladiator]

Given that they did have a much tighter time deadline than the first game, perhaps in hindsight they'd have used their time resources better by focusing on the necessary stuff like the story, the maps, and fixing the bugs, instead of spending so much of it making so many changes to the game, changes that certainly didn't 'have' to be made. I liked some of the changes (especially the new fast-paced combat), and some I didn't, but if they hadn't spent so much of their limited time trying to improve what was already really good, they would've had a lot more time to address some of the weaker points of DA2, areas where we can pretty much all agree there was some room for improvement, if they'd had the time to do so. Obviously that doesn't mean you have to fire somebody, it just means that the folks in charge probably need to make better use of the time they're given for DA3, than they did for DA2. Its certainly understandable of course, that when you give somebody 5 years to make a game, then a year and a half to make the next one, that they might go over-budget in the time department just because they're used to having so much more time. Hopefully now they've gotten used to having to do things much quicker, and DA3 will be much better as a result.

[steve1945]

I think they should yes. The people specificly in charge of the implimentation the new so called "art" "style".

Im all for Dragon Age having a unique look. The thing is. It did. It had the unique grim fable look. Then they wen't and got their new ART STYLE OF AWESOME BUTTON! Which looks completey, utterly, unabashedly, terrible.

[Phonantiphon]

NO.
I think that they've done a great job. I love the design of this game. It has a great feel to it.
I honestly think I must be playing a different game to mst of you but I honestly cannot see what's wrong with it. I am really enjoying it and having a great time playing it.
I think a lot of you just wanted to hate it from the start.

[mdugger12]

Dragon Age II is great and I had a blast playing it. I'm not going to even attempt to lecture somebody that honestly didn't like the game but I just think you're attacking Bioware for the wrong reasons. The only problem I have is that it's starting to feel like they're leaning on the NEED for DLC releases a little too much. At first it was cool to get extra content and to be able to continue the experience but now it seems like, even though DA II as shipped was fun, to truly get the full experience we're gonna have to wait to shell out more money for future DLC. If I had any complaint it would have to start there.

[addu2urmanapool]

BiowarEA wrote...

WoooDoggie wrote...

I think after reading a few articles the blame sits solely with the few at the top of the food chain. The programmers themselves did fine. The Testers need to be tarred and feathered for letting so much slip through.

But after reading Mike Laidlaws defense article and

http://articles.nyda...-mass-effect-dn

I think him and Gaider have got to go. It seems like they had the most input and the more they speak the more clueless they sound.

This! The hubris displayed by both has been disgusting to say the least, and I say this as someone who actually adored Gaider a long long long time ago (when he used be a lot less egoistical).

^ Best screenname ever.

[SmokePants]

Why don't you guys get together, form a studio, and make the "RPG" of your dreams that no one from the alternate universe in which you actually manage to complete such a project will want or care to play.

The same guys that headed up DA2 headed up DAO. And do you really think they're holding the studio hostage? If not for them, you'd get the outdated game of your dreams? Not likely. Game developers tend to be analytical, pragmatic creative types and most of the criticism comes from an emotional, idealistic sense of self-entitled stubbornness.

[RPGamer13]

Dsvid Gaider is the lead writer, and I thought the writing was/is great, same with Origins. Just because someone is bad at PR, doesn't makes them bad at what their real job is.

Plus, we don't know what was going on internally. Maybe they are having some problems with EA and felt the game was rushed a bit, but that's not necessarily something they would bring to public attention, especially if there's a chance to make things better.

It also could be they were trying something new or a number of other factors.

Also, the game doesn't seem to be as buggy as Awakening. I just played Awakening and literally played it for the first time the past three days and there was so many story breaking glitches and other detrimental glitches... Veranna's quest didn't show up for me, Sigrun's wasn't triggered because I accepted some side quests from Amaranthine!? What the hell?

Veranna's story quest was bugged if you went into the mines without her, I was lucky in how I dodged that one. Same with her Ritual Quest if it was the last thing you had before the split, you couldn't do it.


What do we have in this one: you don't get the right conversations with some of the flags? That's minor and I wonder if they recorded lines for the alternatives.

[Phonantiphon]

SmokePants wrote...

Why don't you guys get together, form a studio, and make the "RPG" of your dreams that no one from the alternate universe in which you actually manage to complete such a project will want or care to play.

The same guys that headed up DA2 headed up DAO. And do you really think they're holding the studio hostage? If not for them, you'd get the outdated game of your dreams? Not likely. Game developers tend to be analytical, pragmatic creative types and most of the criticism comes from an emotional, idealistic sense of self-entitled stubbornness.

This.
(Bold type = me).

[uberdowzen]

RPGamer13 wrote...

Dsvid Gaider is the lead writer, and I thought the writing was/is great, same with Origins. Just because someone is bad at PR, doesn't makes them bad at what their real job is.

I like David Gaider. He's got an opinion and he's not scared of sharing it.

[Zmajc]

You can't make an amazing game if you don't have the time to do so and design team didn't have much influence here.

It's the suits who make those decisions and it's them who should face repercussions.

Working as a developer i sipathise with Bioware. It's pretty frustrating when you barely have the time to finish your product in time but suits want it to be finished and amazingly good. You just can't do that in such a short time.

[SkittlesKat96]

What? No way, so many games fail and do bad and all of a sudden the game series you like that gets a bad game means the team needs to be punished?

EDIT: Though I agree a few changes should be made for Dragon Age 3, Dragon Age 2 (while reasonably good) is no Dragon Age Origins.

Modifié par SkittlesKat96, 18 mars 2011 - 08:12 .

[Balerion84]

As already said, the problem with DA2 is that it was rushed, not the design. Which means they didn't have enough time. So if any heads should roll it should be of those people who were in charge of setting the deadline. So I'm going to point in the direction of EA. Those people need to realize, that RPGs are not FPS games, and require time.

[Phonantiphon]

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

What? No way, so many games fail and do bad and all of a sudden the game series you like that gets a bad game means the team needs to be punished?

EDIT: Though I agree a few changes should be made for Dragon Age 3, Dragon Age 2 (while reasonably good) is no Dragon Age Origins.

No it's not Dragon Age Origins.
It's great on it's own merits. DAO was a great game by any standards and IMHO so is this one - it's much more a crossover between DAO and ME(2) and none the worse for it.
What did you want a cover version of DAO...?

Despite that however I agree with the principle of your first point, and to be honest this thread is utterly ludicrous I mean WTF is the OP on? "Should the design team face repercussions" seriously dude wtf?!

Even if it was rushed - they did a bl00dy good with the time they had then.
I think it's great as it is personally and if there's DLC which I hope there is (though I wouldn't blame if they just said "**** you you bunch of whingeing ****s you can go whistle if you want more...") I will be first in the queue for it, and preordering #3 as well.

[GRX Dragon]

Justin2k wrote...

So, some of you are going to think this is awful, and I understand that, but lets look at this from a business point of view.

By Repercussions, I do not neccessarily mean being fired, but being demoted, being taken off of the franchise, bringing in other people over their heads to supervise them whatever.

In all walks of life, if you fail in your job, there are repercussions.  If the business gets bad or negative publicity, heads roll.  If takings are down heads roll.  If you don't live up to standards and expectations of the company and the consumer, heads roll.

While takings may not be down for Dragon Age 2, they certainly will be for Dragon Age 3 and possibly even ME3 as a result of this gratingly average effort they have put out.

Personally I think Laidlaw should be taken off of DA3, or at least have someone come in who is in touch with the playerbase and fans overseeing him.  Your thoughts?

Well, whoever is actually at fault for DA2's shortcomings, whether it be the development team, or the guys at EA that rushed it, deserves to be fired. Even if there were profits, it is never a sustainable business model to deliver subpar products to your customer, especially when it is INTENTIONALLY subpar/rushed.

Trash would never be tolerated by a self-respecting company, no matter how high up or bottom down it is. Take the trash out, burn it, and sing a hallelujah.

Morning808 wrote...
the character creation is a lot better then the first

WHAT???

Are you out of your mind, or are you trolling? DA2's CC is amongst the most restrictive and horribly constructed generators for any CC ever in a WRPG.

[Wivvix]

The decisions that led to Dragon Age 2 have demonstrably been for the worse. The design team is accountable for the failures of the product, but moreover is the lead designer who actively pursued these changes despite the community repeatedly telling them to do otherwise.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with anyone over this. There's no point anymore. The fact of the matter is that statistics don't lie, and the metacritic reviews and user scores paint a far more clear picture of how Dragon Age 2 performed relative to Dragon Age Origins, than anything else.

[Phonantiphon]

GRX Dragon wrote...

WHAT???

Are you out of your mind, or are you trolling? DA2's CC is amongst the most restrictive and horribly constructed generators for any CC ever in a WRPG.

Are you able to give empirical proof of this or is it just - (as is most likely) - your opinion. It's pretty much the same as the one in DAO and the one in ME, so...?

[Phonantiphon]

WTFIsThisCrap wrote...
Thanks for the piece of **** game Bioware!

In your opinion.
And with a username like that your hardly going to be a bastion of well-balanced and reasoned opinion, are you?

[GRX Dragon]

bassmunkee wrote...

GRX Dragon wrote...

WHAT???

Are you out of your mind, or are you trolling? DA2's CC is amongst the most restrictive and horribly constructed generators for any CC ever in a WRPG.

Are you able to give empirical proof of this or is it just - (as is most likely) - your opinion. It's pretty much the same as the one in DAO and the one in ME, so...?

Sliders are proof enough: some sliders quite easily found in DAO (I'll even post screenshots tomorrow), don't even exist in DA2 that prevent any realistic customization of the facial structure. Then there's the thing that one cannot use neither the default Hawk hair nor facial structure to customize without a mod.

I never mentioned ME, but even its sliders make more sense and not nearly as restrictive.

[elijah_kaine]

It seems to me most of Dragon Age 2 flaws have to do with a rushed job on the project. Had time been taken to polish the narrative direction, the storyline, the art design and the combat system this game may have been much more successful.

Edit: So the answer to that is No they shouldn't. If anything whatever suit at EA decided this game needed to be out in a year should get a talking too at least. 

Modifié par elijah_kaine, 18 mars 2011 - 09:16 .

[Phonantiphon]

GRX Dragon wrote...
Then there's the thing that one cannot use neither the default Hawk hair nor facial structure to customize without a mod.

What does *this* even mean?

[SirOccam]

GRX Dragon wrote...

Morning808 wrote...
the character creation is a lot better then the first

WHAT???

Are you out of your mind, or are you trolling? DA2's CC is amongst the most restrictive and horribly constructed generators for any CC ever in a WRPG.

Are you serious? It is definitely better than Origins' CC, and it is lightyears ahead of Mass Effect's.

[Sylvius the Mad]

SirOccam wrote...

Are you serious? It is definitely better than Origins' CC,

I can't agree with you.  DAO's CC was the more powerful tool.