187 réponses à ce sujet

[Clammo]

No, but whichever EA suit decided to force them into an 18 month development cycle should have Manny Pacquiao use his nuts as a speed bag.

[hawat333]

Nope.
I guess the heavy criticism is repricussion enough.
If they are the people who still heed the call to satisfy the players, they will take more time to fully develop the otherwise good concept. And they are, I think.
If they are not, then the repricussion will be the smaller number of people who buy the game.

They made an offer, we accepted it, that's what we got. When you don't like the soup in the restaurant, you can state that you don't like it, better yet, you can tell if it's too salty, but you have no right to demand for repricussions, it would be just dumb. It's not a war crime, not even some personal offense.

As for the personal mentions, Mike Laidlaw and David Gaider brought us Dragon Age: Origins, which was the RPG of the decade (in my eyes at least), people seem to be too swift to ignore this fact.

[Deadmac]

Kevin Lynch wrote...
The bottom line is going to be whether it makes money (i.e. profit) and how much. Business decisions aren't often made by popular opinion, fortunately.

Imagine that. 90% of everyone employed would be fired.

"I hate my cheeseburger!"
"You're fired"
"What? You think your Donald Trump?"

[Deadmac]

Double post. Sorry folks. Why does my browser keep doing that?

Modifié par Deadmac, 18 mars 2011 - 06:42 .

[Deadmac]

Triple post. Sorry folks. Why does my browser keep doing that?

Modifié par Deadmac, 18 mars 2011 - 06:43 .

[Aesieru]

Honestly, if Laidlaw is the reason for this... then yeah I have to say he should be removed as Lead Designer.

[kelsjet]

The amount of Bioware people trolling this thread is pretty ridiculous.

On a separate note, the sheer amount of unprofessionalism on display by Bioware in handling the rather mixed response from DA2 really is shocking. Both in how they are handling their community and how they are handling the product and themselves across the interwebs.

I definitely never expected it from them. Up until very recently, I always thought of Bioware as one of the more mature development houses.

I knew that everyone at the company is really stressed (due to ToR), but I didn't know that they have buckled like this. I mean seriously, some of the behavior by Bioware employees is just down right unacceptable (e.g. David Gaider coming onto the forums and basically bashing the community for being "bad" for not liking DA2, then proceeding to lay the blame for bad DA2 reviews on the community). Its childish things like this, totally unprofessional.


It truly is a sad day when you see a titan fall.

[Aesieru]

kelsjet wrote...

The amount of Bioware people trolling this thread is pretty ridiculous.

On a separate note, the sheer amount of unprofessionalism on display by Bioware in handling the rather mixed response from DA2 really is shocking. Both in how they are handling their community and how they are handling the product and themselves across the interwebs.

I definitely never expected it from them. Up until very recently, I always thought of Bioware as one of the more mature development houses.

I knew that everyone at the company is really stressed (due to ToR), but I didn't know that they have buckled like this. I mean seriously, some of the behavior by Bioware employees is just down right unacceptable (e.g. David Gaider coming onto the forums and basically bashing the community for being "bad" for not liking DA2, then proceeding to lay the blame for bad DA2 reviews on the community). Its childish things like this, totally unprofessional.


It truly is a sad day when you see a titan fall.

Where do I locate this "bashing"?

[errant_knight]

We can make our points about the game without calling for a witch hunt or making personal attacks. This stuff crosses the line.

[Night Prowler76]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

You know what I've been seeing? People saying Laidlaw should be fired, like he was hired to replace Knowles or something. If people honestly cared to look at the facts, Laidlaw was an LD alongside Knowles on Origins. But no. Reality has to be changed to fit some preconceived notions.

Yes, but there is a huge quality gap between what Brent Knowles and MIke Laidlaw made together, as opposed to what Mike made making decisions on his own, hes not a bad guy, but he should be a PR guy, hes not that great of a designer, his less everything is what the fans want approach is just plain silly, I wouldnt go as far to say fire him, but he definately should not be designing the DA games on his own, he needs someone who is more creative like Brent to keep him in check, honestly, the design of DA2 is one of the worst aspects of the game, he did make a good decision with speeding the combat up, but then made it look ridiculous with the animations etc sigh

[OmegaBlue0231]

No.

[Aesieru]

If firing the people who caused a problem is a bad option, does that mean I'm supposed to sit and wait for more problems just because it's mean to fire people?

Bump him down or change his project.

[Chadthesad]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

SirOccam wrote...

Are you serious? It is definitely better than Origins' CC,

I can't agree with you.  DAO's CC was the more powerful tool.

It was more powerful, but the only real CC you ever needed was cone of cold. CC in II is more varied.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Chadthesad wrote...

It was more powerful, but the only real CC you ever needed was cone of cold.

Sleep was better.

[Aesieru]

Probably less of a bonus at the end of the year, is my opinion.

[Galad22]

I haven't heard good things about Mike Laidlaw, but it could be just people telling lies and trolling because they hate him.

But he is lead designer, he didn't design very good game, simple as that.

Othervise I don't think you can blame people about this mess that much, I at least like to believe that they simple didn't have enough time to do DA2 properly. Really hope they have learned from this.

[Dresden V]

No they tried something different some things worked and some things did not. Just because a vocal group is whining does not mean everyone hated the game.

[Tripedius]

No as they did what was asked from them, design an easy game that will sell on it's title to those that liked DA:O and have the potential to draw in newcomers. And that's what it did, cause people can whine all the want to, they still bought the game (me to) so BW/EA already have your cash.

[Deified Data]

Justin2k wrote...

So, some of you are going to think this is awful, and I understand that, but lets look at this from a business point of view.

By Repercussions, I do not neccessarily mean being fired, but being demoted, being taken off of the franchise, bringing in other people over their heads to supervise them whatever.

In all walks of life, if you fail in your job, there are repercussions.  If the business gets bad or negative publicity, heads roll.  If takings are down heads roll.  If you don't live up to standards and expectations of the company and the consumer, heads roll.

While takings may not be down for Dragon Age 2, they certainly will be for Dragon Age 3 and possibly even ME3 as a result of this gratingly average effort they have put out.

Personally I think Laidlaw should be taken off of DA3, or at least have someone come in who is in touch with the playerbase and fans overseeing him.  Your thoughts?

They shall be sentenced to death by a tribunal of the angirest ex-fans!

Are you serious?

[CRISIS1717]

Laidlaw and Gaider had their chance, I don't think they should be leading the design and writing of this franchise.

[Velvetmeds]

The only repercussion i want is DA3 made by the same people.

[djackson75]

kelsjet wrote...



I knew that everyone at the company is really stressed (due to ToR), but I didn't know that they have buckled like this. I mean seriously, some of the behavior by Bioware employees is just down right unacceptable (e.g. David Gaider coming onto the forums and basically bashing the community for being "bad" for not liking DA2, then proceeding to lay the blame for bad DA2 reviews on the community). Its childish things like this, totally unprofessional.

When did this happen? Does anyone have a link to that thread?

[macrocarl]

Velvetmeds wrote...

The only repercussion i want is DA3 made by the same people.

Pip pip! Stellar game and no I don't work for Bioware.

[doloreg]

People will whine no matter what, so far, from what i've seen, every bioware game had about 20000 threads about how bad it was. Those who are so willing to voice their distress, usually do so without using their brains, and invent catchphrases, whether it is that ME2 is CoD in space, because you can aim, or that DA2 is a god of war rip off (which shows that they have never played god of war), it will not change.
They will say that the game is utter crap, because not everything is as it should be in their minds eye.

If bioware were to demote people because of the user "reviews", and i'm using that term lightly, then they should swap teams everytime they make a game.

[AtreiyaN7]

kelsjet wrote...

The amount of Bioware people trolling this thread is pretty ridiculous.

On a separate note, the sheer amount of unprofessionalism on display by Bioware in handling the rather mixed response from DA2 really is shocking. Both in how they are handling their community and how they are handling the product and themselves across the interwebs.

I definitely never expected it from them. Up until very recently, I always thought of Bioware as one of the more mature development houses.

I knew that everyone at the company is really stressed (due to ToR), but I didn't know that they have buckled like this. I mean seriously, some of the behavior by Bioware employees is just down right unacceptable (e.g. David Gaider coming onto the forums and basically bashing the community for being "bad" for not liking DA2, then proceeding to lay the blame for bad DA2 reviews on the community). Its childish things like this, totally unprofessional.


It truly is a sad day when you see a titan fall.

BIoWare people? I don't see any of them in here. Or do you mean those of us who are reasonable folks and think this whole thread is repugnant in calling for people to be fired for creating a good (if imperfect) game. People are entitled to be dissatisfied with a game and express that maturely, but seriously, demanding that heads roll just because <x> person hates all the changes in the game is what I'd consider childish and immature behavior. 

I don't remember any Article in the Consitution entitling the high priests of all RPGs for all time, everywhere (aka those who hate the game), the right to life, liberty and the ability to demand that game developers make exactly the game they want and only the games that they want.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 18 mars 2011 - 09:36 .